Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 7, 2012.
Didn't work so well for Tara Whitten.
I'm sure once I figure out what that meant, I'll find it funny.
But it might work for chan
Eh, he'd still be going into Sochi as the guy who could realistically bring home Canada's first gold in men's figure skating. The pressure wouldn't change if he lost in London. Indeed, there would be so much more talk about the pressure in that situation, imo. Really, the best thing he can do is win everything from now until Sochi (he can skip next season's WTT, and probably should).
The Rach program will be interesting. I'm certain Patrick and Jeff can pull off high brow introspective, emotionally rich music. Patrick's ability to do intricate edge work will really enhance "the program", in addition to just earning points in skating skills.
I'm not so confident about a La Boheme program because the skater and choreographer just don't seem to have enough "flavor" in them. Extroverted jesters are just not that strong from this team.
I'm not Chan's biggest fan, but I see no one on the horizon (near or distant) that can come close to beating him at this point unless Chan has a complete melt-down. His skating skills are par excellent, his speed is blazing, footwork to die for, spectacular jumps(usually), but alas, to me his is a case of all skates--no heart. All skill--scant drama. But it makes no difference what I think, the judges love him and they determine the score.
Honestly, I've had enough of his technical part.
Whatever music he skates to or whatever new techniques he learns, he looks boring to watch and a lack of his musicality stands out as the technical part improves.
I'm a Patrick Chan uber, and I'm very curious about how history will view him (which I think hinges upon Sochi, truth be told).
I am glad he is using Elegie (gorgeous) but I was secretly hoping for an LP. Not sure what to make of the coaching change yet.
Chan's timing is generally very good. You could say that he lacks style somewhat. He does moves to the music but it all looks a little robotic.
I think that no longer applies, especially after having seen his Elegie exhibition. He was smooth like butter and maintained a beautiful impression of flow both with his blades and body. Again, I just wish that program were an LP. So gorgeous. Goosebumps.
While I tend to agree a bit with your statement, I believe that Patrick is taking the necessary steps to work on this, such as training with his new coach. In the 16x9 video below you can see the influence Kathy Johnson has with Patrick working on his movement on- and off-ice at around the 5:25 mark:
I am excited that Patrick finally has two new programs to unveil in one season, however I think that he will most likely keep one or both programs for the Olympic season.
I just watched that exhibition for the first time, and it reminded me of Toller Cranston.
Chan is a much more understated performer than some- but I don't find him anything close to "wooden" or "robotic" and IMO he is quite musical. However, his performance is much much more subtle than someone like Takahashi (whom I also adore)- so I do understand that some people perceive him the way they do.
But I do wish people would stop insisting that because they don't think he performs well or they don't find him musical that it is a fact.
I've also had my rant before about the arrogrance of people using words like heartless or soulless. For one thing - who are you to make such a judgment? For another thing, using such words for any skater that has put in the time needed to be a competitive figure skater is ludicrous.
I think this season Chan will come on top in technical and performance compared to Dai's programs
His best EX so far. The speed, lightness, flow, and subtle nuances
its like a feather floating above the ice.
I am not sure what robotic means but if it means not having a too much facial expression that is acceptable to me. Afterall, I dont look at the face but the feet and body movements as a whole. A robot to one may be pure skating skills to another and vice versa. Its just personal preference for understated skating skills rather thqn the dramatic and flamboyant.
Any growth for any skater is a welcome to skating fans. It is nicer to watch a strong field than a weak one. They push each other to higher levels. I am delighted to know that Plushenko, Lysacek and Weir are returning. They are all great skaters in their own right and I am sure, their return will also up the antennae for the men. Figure skating fans will not lose (unless enjoyment means only my favourite can and should win). Lets enjoy.
I've said it before and now I repeat myself but after seeing Patrick skate live and back to back with Dai, the difference was notable. Patrick is so fast and smooth but what impressed me was his body movement. He uses his whole body to convey emotion, digging deep down then extending his body to the rafters. I couldn't see much facial expression but then again I was too far away for that and I really think that it's the body positions and movement that should express emotion in this venue. He skates "big", and also his ice coverage is 2nd to none........a few strokes and he's at the other end of the rink......amazing
If doing quad jumps and fancy footworks are boring...well, then I'd rather see these qualities than some skaters making over dramatic gestures and over the top facial expression. His musicality is just fine...simple and low key. Let the skate speaks for itself.
What does that mean?
Some like to believe over dramatic, over the top facial expression such as Dai or Hanyu or Amadio = artistry. Anything lack of those = no artistry.
I can only think of the reason some like to keep saying that is that, they can NOT find anything flaw to say about his skate...so has to stick to "heartless" or "soulless" to justify their nonsense. Some people's description of his skate is almost like talking about someone like Elvis's skate. Give me a break
You see, to some, all these "skating" qualities don't count if he doesn't roll his head, fling his arms up and down busily, make wide eye stare at you, pound his chest or look like he's about to cry, aka artistry.
I've been moved by performances of Takahashi, Abbott, Hanyu, and many other men, but never by Chan's. I've never liked his performances so I want to watch them again and again. When it comes to his programs, it's always about techniches or scoring and I don't see much about the relationship to the music in his programs. In fact, I haven't heard so much about the music itself from him that he chooses to skate to. Admitting he deserves the best marks on SS and TR, but I just don't understand that he gets the best marks on CH and IN.
I find it easy to understand why Chan gets high marks in CH and IN.
Because PCS is based on SS which he has among the best, but many fans say it's wrong. If he has the best marks on CH and IN, then it should mean he has the best chreography and interpretation skills, which he probably does not.
People are moved by different things. To state that because you're not personally moved means just that ; YOU are not moved. It does not mean that it's a fact his skating is not moving and without soul. He moves me, and in a powerful way. More than any other current skater, I watch his programs over and over again.
Me too. His skating isn't entertaining or in-your-face, but he is musical and expresses himself well.
I do not think many people don't find him moving, but it is a fact that he's overscored in PCS. The audience's booing when his scores were announced in the Worlds 2012 proves it all. Also many commentators from many countries said he didn't deserve to win.
It's just WRONG that he got the highest mark, 9.0's in PE and IN with a fall like that and a time violation because of being late to the music.
Methinks someone has to review the definition of the word "fact".