Patrick Chan embarks on season with new coach, choreographers and two new programs

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    ... and also 2 new quads (Salchow and flip).

    Canadian Press article by Lori Ewing: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...graphers-and-two-new-programs/article4524866/
    This Chan interview video includes a snippet from Chan's SP (his Rachmininoff "Elegie" exhibition turned into a SP): http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...n-happy-with-coaching-changes/article4525358/

    Hamilton Spectator article on Chan by Steve Milton: http://www.thespec.com/sports/article/794049--chan-hopes-to-add-more-quad-jumps-to-his-repertoire
    Toronto Star article on Chan by Joseph Hall: http://www.thestar.com/sports/figur...-take-sochi-olympics-in-stride-with-new-quads
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  2. jdonavan

    jdonavan Member

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    Wow - exciting stuff...Good luck team Chan!
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I think this decision might backfire.

    Christy Krall has helped him a lot on the jumps. Without a proper skating coach to oversee things, bad habits might return.
     
  4. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    But actually it was Kathy Johnson who gave him the final key tip to getting the quad, not Krall. It was something to do with using his core more, or bringing his arms in tighter or whatever, but it came from Johnson not Krall, and it was after that that he got the quad.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  5. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    Oooo, I am excited for the new programs. Not so much for the new coach though.
     
  6. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    If he does 2 quads in the short and 3 quads in the free, he might be able to get away with not doing a 3axel at all. If he does the quads AND the 3axels he will be very difficult to beat.
     
  7. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    I like the strategy. You are potentially setting yourself up to fail if you add quads in Olympic season. Need to plan all your tech content the year before to get enough reps in competition to be confident in the OGs.

    By adding the 4F he will give himself flexibility in the SP like he has had in the past season. Go for the 4T/3T out of footwork. If you miss the combo then do 3F/3T combo. If you hit it you plan for the footwork/flip as the solo jump, but you just plan for triple or quad based on how practices are going and what the situation demands. All this without messing up program choreo. Great move.

    Yes will be interesting to see what comes out if all the quads go in. 3A will almost surely stay in. He needs to keep working it in competition because it will always be in the SP.
    In my mind though he fixed the 3A last season. Up until then he was jumping more inside the circle but his upper body was leaning out a touch. Now his takeoff is more straight out vs curving around which is lining up his upper and lower body nicely and in my mind creating the needed consistency.

    This is a lot of tough work on his body. i know he's big on the off-ice training and this is where Kathy will be key...ensuring he trains to keep his body fit and stable for the demands technically. I just hope he stays healthy.

    I hope he retains and continues to use a coach. Nice to take control of his training more but coaches serve a real purpose. Always.
     
  8. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    He already can't be beat (or at least, not often).

    The extra quads will make him more unbeatable.

    I hope Kathy Johnson can help him with his presentation and musicality. He is a fine skater, and I really hope I can get to where I enjoy watching his skating more.

    It is a help that they are controlling his press coverage and preventing the arrogant sounding comments that have damaged his image in the past.
     
  9. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    I thought there was also a built in advantage to training in Colorado because it is at higher altitude and training there increases an athlete's stamina - is that not true?
     
  10. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    Well this is either going to be really good or really bad. I have a couple of rule to live by. All rights 1. Never wake a sleeping baby. 2. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

    If this goes in the direction he wants, and I hope it does,, he'll be hailed for his genius, courage, and foresight.
     
  11. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Let's see what happens before we second-guess the strategy that Patrick and his team have chosen.
     
  12. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Well, he's made some rather significant changes before and it seems they were to his advantage. I have a tendency to trust him and his decision making based on past decisions. Cudos to him for having the courage to move on when he feels the time is ripe.
     
  13. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    When I first read this I kind of panicked about the idea of him not having an actual skating coach.

    But now I am thinking that there seems to be an awful lot of thought behind choices from his team including Patrick and his parents. Combine this with Skate Canada's watchful eye and if things start to come unravelled - steps will be taken to remedy the situation. That is what I am hoping.

    If his jumps start to fail him - perhaps he plans to go to someone for help instead of a full time coach. I mean - what do his detractors say he is missing? So who is he spending his time with - someone who works on the dancing / performing aspect of his skating - and as a bonus - has been able to use dance knowledge to help him better his jumps~!
     
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  14. nlyoung

    nlyoung Active Member

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    Patrick seems to be taking the blame for "dumping" his coach (Krall) whereas I understood that she was the one who severed ties because he was beginning to rely more on others rather than just her. In other words, Patrick was hoping to keep her as a coach but as one of an expanded team. She wanted more say in the direction of his skating as primary coach and was unwilling to compromise.
     
  15. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    The impressions I get based on the interviews with Krall, Patrick and an article from Jo-Ann Schneider-Farris ( http://www.examiner.com/article/can-patrick-chan-s-only-skating-coach-be-a-modern-dance-teacher ) are: Patrick feels very comfortable with Kathy and wants to work more closely with her; he still wants to work with Krall but she will play the role of technical coach and not primary coach; Krall is not happy with the new arrangement and decided to resign; Patrick wants to explore a different training strategy compared to the one which Krall has in mind for him. It was an amicable parting and Patrick never fail to mention in interviews that Krall helped him in obtaining his quads.

    I worry for Patrick too ;) but as Skateindreams said, let's see what happens. Just as Accordion has mentioned, surely, Skate Canada will keep a watchful eye.
     
  16. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    My only real fear with him is injuries, not strategy. All these quads are very hard on the body; he just has to make sure he's not attempting quads without all the proper off-ice training/readiness as well as ensuring he doesn't attempt them while tired/sick or otherwise unprepared. That's when accidents happen.
    He seems to be level headed and very strategic in his approach to skating so I think he has a better chance than most to be successful at this.

    Also, I'm sure he'd stop training the new quads if/once he decides his chances of landing in competition just aren't there. I"m sure he'll go through the process this season and then make some final decisions going into next.

    As for Olympics, no one is unbeatable. Very few have the mental fortitude as the likes of Yags, Stojko, Boitano and Plushy. Very few are of that calibre in terms of being always battle ready. Chan will be very well prepared, but every bit as competitively fragile as the rest of the field. It's almost like I don't want him to win in London to take the pressure off of next season. Walking into Sochi having won last 3 world's will be a nightmare of expectation.
     
  17. Lara

    Lara Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, especially compounded with no Canadian male having won Olympic gold. For him to deliver under that pressure would take probably even more mental fortitude than Yuna showed in Vancouver, and that was already extremely impressive. :yikes:
     
  18. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    Chan's remarks as to adding more technical difficulty with 4S and 4F reflect that he is working w/ coaching staff in CO that can work with him specifically on these elements.......someone who has technical expertise. Johnson is a dance teacher and probably a confidant for team Chan, not necessarily someone who can provide exacting feedback on those elements. So, with the Krall bridge burned by team Chan, that leaves very few folks in CO to work with Chan on adding those quads. He probably needs access to pole harness and maybe even Dartfish.
    Shipstad and Schulz are the only 2 coaches that I know of who provide that service at that rink. So my best guess is that he is working w/ Shipstad as Schulz works primarily with Damon Allen, Krall and Tom Z students. That must put Shipstad in a pickle, as IIRC, he co-coached many of Krall's students as there is no way Chiddy would be working directly w/ Tom Z on those quads, ;-)
     
  19. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    Or, better yet, he's learning those new quads thru osmosis, watching Tom Z's students.........Mroz and Aaron. ;-)
     
  20. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    Any idea when we will get a glimpse of his SP and LP? I love his Ex Pro Elegie...so very excited to know that he's reworking that into SP.
     
  21. halffull

    halffull The most wonderful time of the year :)

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    It takes real courage to move on from something that seems to already be working in order to find something even better! Cudo's to him!!! So excited to see his new programs. (especially Jeff's). Best of luck this season PChiddy :D
     
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  22. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    If you're wondering about his full programs, the SP most likely not before Skate Canada and the LP most likely at Japan Open October 5 or 6.
     
  23. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    If his other quads are good, it'd be interesting to see how he will incorporate the quads into his SP and LP.
     
  24. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    Nonetheless, it is not always possible to control when a skater pictures - as Yags and Yunah did at the Olympics, for example. A season can make a huge difference and I worry that Patrick may reach his peak this year, rather than the Olympic year. Or, fall victim to injury in the Olympic season. An injury this year might therefore be a blessing in disguise.

    I feel the same. The pressure will be huge. Much as it was for S/P in 2002, when the commentators had to emphasize over and over again that the competition would be the end of Russia's 40-year dominance in pairs.

    With men in Sochi, they will go on and on and on about how history is about to be made as a Canadian man might win Olympic Gold for the first time. There will be a ton of interviews with Chan about how he is ready to win the Gold and has prepared for this moment all his life and so on and so forth. . .

    I'd almost prefer him to go in as an underdog.
     
  25. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Even losing worlds in 2013 wouldn't necessarily make him an underdog. Maybe losing the GPF in 2013 would be bigger. Even Yuna almost lost to Miki Ando and what if she did. Miki wouldn't have been helped that much because Mao would still have been her number one competitor. The current and reigning Olympic champion competing against him would still create some expectation of maybe being an underdog. And what if her two previous Olympic Champions? Plushenko and Lysacek? He could be the world champion and not be the frontrunner.

    2001 Yagudin lost to Plushenko but lots still thought Yagudin for the Olympics so even losing may not take some pressure off. He could always have PR in Canada about him being world champ 2 or 3 times but still going up against possible 2 Olympic champions.
     
  26. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby Member

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    So Jeff did choreo for both Chan and Hanyu? No wonder Hanyu's new SP looks so horrendous, he is saving the better one to Chan. ;)
     
  27. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Krall had said in an interview that the pressure on the body when one does a quad is like a fridge falling on you! :eek: I hope Patrick can pace his training well to suit his body within this 1 1/2 years.

    I don't think Patrick is a lock for gold too, not anyone in fact though I think he stands a good chance to podium based on his current skills. Mental strength is a must in elite sports perhaps more so for figure skating than swimming, athletics etc. A total of 8-10 minutes to display skills alone is a long time. :( I hope with his past experience in Vancouver and recent two Worlds, he understands himself and his mind better than anyone. Only he, and he alone can deliver in that moment. Browning had said .. the ability to remain calm as the time draws nearer is important.
     
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Huh? Hanyu's SP looks like the strongest program he's had so far, by far.
     
  29. mossop

    mossop New Member

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    Takes two hands to clap... :p
     
  30. flipforsynchro

    flipforsynchro New Member

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    Me too. Although I think it would be difficult for him to be an underdog considering he'd have to lose a lot in these next two-ish years, but I think it would take a lot of the pressure off.