Patrick Chan deserves his scores

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by ks1227, Nov 20, 2010.

  1. ks1227

    ks1227 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'm alone, but I'm really tired of all the whining and snarking about Patrick Chan's scores. I actually don't think he has been overscored at all. :p

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-7H60-jJyg

    It's time for some of us to start standing up for the minority view at FSU. I honestly can't think of a single skater right now who skates this well. And I think all the folks who are whining about "chanflation" need to name a skater who is better than this. Or shut up. ;)

    And I'm not even Canadian. :shuffle:
     
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  2. vodkashot

    vodkashot Active Member

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    I am OK with Chan's scores at CoR so far....but do you honestly think he deserved his scores at Skate Canada, especially with that disaster of a SP?
     
  3. ks1227

    ks1227 Well-Known Member

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    Yup, I do think that. :D As unpopular as it might be here.
     
  4. ks1227

    ks1227 Well-Known Member

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    By the way, which skaters at Skate Canada do you think should have been scored higher? :shuffle:
     
  5. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Chan is brilliant! BRILLIANT! I saw the top 6 SPs from COR today, then quickly glanced over the pbp. I CANNOT believe people actually thought he should've placed 3rd, and were shocked with his scores. I love me some Abbott and Verner, but were we watching the same SPs? Chan fell on the 3-axel, but every single one of his other elements were simply the BEST. His SP footwork sequence is probably my all-time favorite straight line footwork sequence by a male skater... EVER. (sorry Yagudin fans). Nothing compares to it's brilliance. Then that glorious Quad-triple (who said you can't do a quad-triple out of footwork, and that 30-seconds cross overs are a must?) the spins were brilliant, fastest and most centered of any other skater at COR. his flip was also a thing of beauty.

    Abbott, who did not fall, has a great footwork sequence, and a very nice 3-axel. His 3-3 was just ok, and the solo jump was weak, low, and he just hung on to it. 2 of his spins (the up-right and the combo) were not good. Oh yeah, and no quad! That's a 4-point deficit right there.

    And Verner, who I love, had a bad landing on his 3-axel, and he lips. The less I say about his flying camel the better. I like his program, but no way I'd have scored it any where near Chan today.

    I personally get a kick of posters blowing a gasket everytime his scores show up :rofl: doesn't bother me a bit, so long as the judges keep rewarding his once-in-a-generation talent.

    CHAN CHAN CHAN!
     
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  6. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    Patrick deserved his scores today. He was overscored in Canada. IMHO.
     
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    He is overscored atleast 90% of the time. Trying to pick out the 10% of the time his scores might be semi reasonable is moot to the overall context of the situation.
     
  8. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    I thought he was under-scored in Skate Canada :cheer2:
     
  9. luCN

    luCN New Member

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    agree.
     
  10. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

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    Me as well. He is a wonderful skater.
     
  11. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
  12. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    I think chan deserved 1st too. Abbot skates so stiff and jerky, he needs to work on that among other areas of his skating.
     
  13. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    this problem is nothing new. different skaters through the times has won or had good results, also with the old 6.0. I remember at worlds 1999, Elena & Anton were fighting with Shen & Zhao for gold. IIRC the chinese skated clean, and Lena fell or stepped out of her double axel. Still, B&S won, because of the overall quality of their elements, the basic skating and the presentation. S&Z were getting there, but still a little rough around the edges at that time.

    I had quite a few discussions with other people in the audience that night, who couldn't understand why B&S won. She fell??? The others did not! they could not get it.

    I think Lena & Anton are a good example of skaters who had so many qualities to them, it made up for errors vs.others who skated clean, and for the untrained eye, better. (Olys 1998, 2002 as example. In olys 98 Anton fell in the short p, and they still placed in the top 3 above clean pairs)

    Now, Chan is such a skater,and also Lepistö. Love her to death, her basic and in-betweens are divine!!
     
  14. luCN

    luCN New Member

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    You are quite right. Many people don't know that much about figure skating rules.They just think people who didn't fall should get the highest point,even they sucked on other elements or step out the jumps.It's a pity.
     
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  15. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    I was about to post here but you've covered all the points I was going to make and then some! You even mentioned Verner's sleep-inducing flying camel.

    Yes, Patrick's footwork was to die for--the effortless skating on one foot, the mastery of the blade :swoon: His basics are to die for.

    All the jumps save the 3 axel were perfection and again seemed effortless. Someone criticized his interpretation as out of sync of the music--it's syncopated so is he also supposed to stop and go, stop and go? After all, Morozov did NOT choreograph this program.

    Of course he deserved it. :kickass:
     
  16. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    I don´t think that just Chan was overscored in Canada, the same applies to his nearest competitors. The result was right, the general scoring a bit high.
     
  17. bek

    bek Guest

    There's a HUGE difference between Elena and Anton beating able to get away with one major mistake over skaters like Shen/Zhao. And Patrick Chan being granted a 3 fall cushion.

    I've got no problem with Patrick's short program win. Maybe the lead should have been a little less, but everything else was better in the short program. Overall skating should matter over one mistake. But I'm sorry once we start talking about multiple major errors, than "everything else" just isn't better. There needs to be a balance between a system that says "clean only matters" and overall quality doesn't. And a system that essentially suggests that basics/choregraphy/transitions only matter, and delivering the technical elements shouldn't matter at all. And I have a hard time believing the jumps matter in this system, when Lepisto can get away with the content she had at worlds, and Chan, Abbott, and Daisuke can get away with multiple falls. If your falling multiple times in one program, than I'm sorry that can hardly be considered a good skate. Even if your basics and edges are to die for. One half of the mark, shouldn't be set and stone before the skating even starts. And considering Chan's PCS are similar when he skates well and when he doesn't skate well, well lets just say its troubling.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2010
  18. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't this be in the Trash Can?
     
  19. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    My thoughts exactly.

    As for Chan himself, his scores make sense to me. Take Five really is a :kickass: SP and it was the best of this competition. Still, I can't deny that I wish some of the guys (Verner, Abbott) would step it up a lot so that they could have a chance of beating him without having to rely on 20 falls from him. Sometimes, you just have an attachment to other skaters who aren't the best and want them to beat the best. My mind knows Chan is probably the best mens skater right now but heart does not want him to win. Sorry. I know it's not rational but what can I say?

    I think many posters who are shouting "chanflation" know he's the best but have feelings similar to mine. So instead of just saying "I don't like the guy" or "I just don't want him to win and I'm pissed my favorite is just not as good as him", we come up with rationalizations to make ourselves feel better.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  20. Bailey_

    Bailey_ Guest

    IMHO, you have to see him skate live to understand the brilliance of his edges, his ice coverage, the quality of his spins and jumps (that quad this year looks like a triple, it looks so easy and so smooth). I was a fan before, but having seen him skate in person I now believe he is the best male skater Canada - perhaps the world - has ever seen!! Nothing short of brilliant!!
     
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  21. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

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    Me, too. I think his SP was fairly scored, it was very good and he would have scored what I would have expected had he landed the 3A, mid-to-high 80s (I mean he did a gorgeous 4T-3T, spun well, did his footwork justice this time). It was very good.

    Didn't watch his FS so I don't know
     
  22. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Well obviously, Patrick Chan is like the greatest skater ever. Why bother even having competitions? I think Patrick Chan should have predetermined PCS that are unattainable by any other skater just because he's so superior.
     
  23. bek

    bek Guest

    Live Carolina Kostner supposedly has amazing flow, speed, edges etc. But Kostner has never been able to deliver when the pressure is on. A huge part of being a great champion, is being able to deliver under pressure. There are a lot of great practice skaters, basketball players, gymnasts etc. What seperates the great practice athlete, from the great champion is that the Great Champion delivers under pressure. Patrick deserves to win when he skates, well, heck when he skates decently. But he shouldn't be able to get away with falling 4 times in a competition.
     
  24. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Sure Patrick has some amazing qualities. His quad toe is also probably his best jump thusfar. Why I don't think he deserves his scores? He makes mistakes all the time in his programs and the rest of his jumps are nothing to brag about either.
     
  25. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    I'm in total agreement with you. He's fast too on top of all that. But if some posters have a hate on for him........so be it.
     
  26. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    No one deserves anything. Scores are so relative.
    But for sure, Patrick Chan's skating is from another Planet !
    So, I'm OK with his scores.
     
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    That is pretty much how the judges think as well. :lol:
     
  28. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    Except that Takahashi has been getting higher PCS when he hasn't skated his best either.
     
  29. bek

    bek Guest

    While Daisuke has had issues, he hasn't been falling 3 times in one program. Although in general, I have seen Daisuke get huge PCS for programs filled with falls.
     
  30. vodkashot

    vodkashot Active Member

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    I have also seen Patrick Chan skate live before.

    He really has very good skating skills, ice coverage, etc but even seeing him live I'm not sure how he gets those high PE and IN scores. His choreography is complex but he seems like he's just going through the motions sometimes, particularly when he flubs his jumps.

    His jumps are quite good when he lands them--he could use a bit more distance and height on his jumps however--but the problem is that he often doesn't land them. If he has such good skating skills I wonder why he isn't able to hold the landing edge of his jumps....

    If the best male skater in Canada--or perhaps the world--keeps winning medals with four falls per competition, I think that is more indicative of the quality of the other men in the field (or really good politicking by his federation)