Patrick Chan’s new mantra: figure skaters of the world unite: DiManno

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Apr 21, 2013.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Wasn't the idea floated (by Cinquanta?) to incorporate the team event into the World Championships in the future, depending on how the team event goes in Sochi? I thought I had read or heard a mention of the next scheduled WTT being held in Japan in 2015 (funded by TV Asahi again?) but I can't remember the source now.
  2. figureit

    figureit New Member

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    All sports but figure skating mostly has unions to protect the athletes. Not sure how this is "foot in mouth" disease when other sports have unions. IT would help bring balance to figure skating , make it more enjoyable to watch given rights are protected. I can see where it would be a blessing. To not allow federations to just do what ever they want. Especially since the skaters pay a ton of money for their own training it makes sense they stay in charge of their own rights.

    Again I have seen skaters train very hard , families sacrifice and then the federations says we hate that program or music or costume change it but they do not help monetarily to do so. OR a skaters wants to do a program but is told NO and black balled if they do not follow the federations comments and ideas. IT takes the passion out of it and is horribly hard on the skater, training, and the family. I think this is a good idea. It should be a choice if the federation pays for everything and earns a lot of money it should be fair for the athletes too....would love to hear about this more.
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  3. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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    He is just the gift that keeps on giving.
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  4. Tony Wheeler

    Tony Wheeler Well-Known Member

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    I think it depended on the edition. In 1998, I think it was in the middle of summer (late July or early August?), which is an extremely early (or late) point in the season to have a competition, and I actually think we saw more programs carried over from the '98 season rather than a bunch of new programs debuted. The level of skating was pretty mediocre, too.

    The 2001 version was in late August-early September, and we got a chance to see most of the top skaters' new Olympic season programs for the first time. The individual Japan Open competition is now a chance to see some new programs debuted, but I'd almost rather it be replaced with the team edition if they insist on keeping it.
  5. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    Some people don't understand why they should say less.
  6. query5

    query5 New Member

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    The union is okay, but the sport as a whole will have to put more people in seats, shows, tours, online, psy more those events.
  7. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    If that's the case, he should take it up with Skate Canada. I believe that any of the three men Canada will presumably send to Sochi can compete in the team event - either one or two, depending on whether they want to have the same person skate both segments or not.

    There is a vast difference between "skaters should have a union" and most of what Chan said.
  8. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    sorry, double post.
  9. query5

    query5 New Member

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    The other partcomes across as bitterness, arrogance, self enitlement.
    Iknow I need to win is points . I dont care if I skate badly and still win.
    The fans, b.c. pubic, media I dont care.
    I, will say and skate the wayi want so ican,win in hopes of more money etc
    Patrick doesnt realize or care how his words are seen or interpreted by others.
    He thinks or knows he will be ogm regardless of how he skates sohe,opens his mouth accordingly. He knows dedpite his,hlaring mistakes he will win. The only thing that will slow him down is injury
    Why shouldnt he , he wins by skating diastrous frees because he has enough points and his nearest competitors make justad many mistakes as he does just not as noticesble
    Patrick should realize,the public will decide whether or not he deserves to get what he thinks he does when he pjtches whatever in front of public
  10. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Up to two skaters can compete in any individual discipline of the team event (one in the short, one in the long - same skater or two different ones), with a total of six entrants (so Canada can field, say two pairs teams and two dance teams, but one each in the single events). Canada's real issue is that they don't really have much breadth or depth in either of the singles disciplines (which makes the ability to get that third spot rather amusing). Yes, Reynolds is at a career high, but a tough caller will defenestrate him (though he could still contribute to a gold medal in the event, it would be far less of a lock)

    He's skating in the team event at the Olympics, I have no doubt.
  11. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    That is patently untrue. In professional cycling, a cyclist can negotiate with any team that would have him and sign a contract for as many or as few years as he wants. More to the point, it is up to him which events he rides. There is no penalty if he opts not to ride in the World Championships (in fact many top cyclists don't) and there are no restrictions on what non-UCI events (including competitions) he participates in. None of that affects his Olympic eligibility.

    Same for pro tennis and golf. A top tennis player does not lose his Olympic eligibility by performing in an exhibition match instead of traveling to the Australian open or not playing Davis Cup.
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  12. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I did not say that all sports have the same rules and restrictions. Some sports are more structured, other less - but they all have rules and regulations, and no athletes get to have their sport work in the way that is most convenient to them personally.
  13. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    Lol, in fairness, he did come to prominence as a teen. But yeah, it seems to be a slow learning curve and there is no guarantee that he will learn. I still find this article really amusing:D

    I do hope skaters become unionized in the future, though.
  14. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I think he's like Trankov that way: if he didn't like the timing, he's complain no matter how well he or the team did.

    I doubt it, because in another thread (maybe the "Chan Whines about WTT" thread?), there was a quote from him saying he liked the timing of the Olympic team even to get out the nerves and how it would foster team kumbaya.

    The rules allow Canada to choose to enter either one man for both the SP and FS, or one each for the SP and FS. The Men chosen have to be there for the individual event since Canada qualified at least one -- appointments are only for disciplines where te country hasn't qualified anyone for the individual event -- but Canada has three entries for Men, and Skate Canada doesn't have to choose Chan to skate. As expected gold medal contenders, they'd be crazy not to choose him, assuming he's healthy.

    I'm with you two.
  15. CassAgain

    CassAgain Active Member

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    If he skates the way he is capable, he should be Olympic champion next year, and I would bet he will be. However, if there has been a less likable skater in recent years, I can't think of one.
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  16. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    IMO, Open mouth and insert both feet: with boots and blades attached. Slit throat
  17. Garden Kitty

    Garden Kitty Tranquillo

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    The problem with a skaters' union is the same problem that cyclists have with forming a union - their interests often don't align. I expect only a few elite skaters with private sponsors would be worried about getting a right not to compete at an event with significant prize money. More would proably be concerned with trying to promote the financial viability of events they hope to one day be able attend.
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  18. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    :rofl: at some Chan‘s words.
    :cheer2: :cheer: for his honesty.
    But I am a little concerned about :angryfire from ISU and :( from Japanese audiences. (rightly so, in the latter case)
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  19. iggie

    iggie New Member

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    the isu and japanese fed may be rightfully upset but how many times do skaters need to voice how much they're not liking how this competition is set up before those organizations address the issue? yes, you want a money making opportunity. yes, you want to give more cotent to the audience that values figure skating, argubaly, the most. yes, it's another opportunity to give skaters more funds for their skating. but you can't just drag the skaters into it and force them to do it in order to accomplish those goals.
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  20. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and forcing them to accept lots of $---that's the final insult!
  21. iggie

    iggie New Member

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    lol. it is lucrative for all involved, but if the ones putting on the show are desparately unhappy with the process, then that should be addressed.
  22. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Fine. I agree that Scott Moir and Patrick Chan should not have to suffer the trial of competing in April (the horror!). So, next time let's just have Team Italy go instead of Team Canada, since most of the other WTT participants do not seem averse to competing and the Italians are way more fun in the K&C anyway.

    Bring back Team Italy! :mitchell:
  23. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ THIS!

    :rofl: Wow, it seems like Patrick has been reading too much FSU :soapbox: :drama: ...

    Wasn't April Fool's three weeks ago already!


    IMO (like someone else has already said), Patrick won't necessarily not win an OGM because of his recent comments. The Olympics is a year away and the new season is not near starting yet. So, by that time, Patrick may not be blowing the same horn. I think the ISU judges have proven that they are in love with Patrick's SS and will NOT be swayed by anyone or anything from continuing to reward Patrick (as has been proven). I will be surprised if Patrick continues making these pronouncements about the need for a skater's union and/ or make any attempt himself to organize one. He's gonna be too busy (like other skaters) training for the new season.

    His comments just seem like Patrick's usual tendency to complain because he's feeling put upon, and it's all about "Me, Me!" And, about him being so used to winning all the time, and he's unhappy about being forced to skate at WTT and not win, when he prefers to focus on the Road to Sochi and to winning OGM, as is his God-given ISU judges-given right, I suppose.

    OTOH, it is interesting to see a skater speak out, when most skaters have been so conditioned to Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil, but just shut-up and skate. However, Patrick is likely the anomaly in speaking out partly as a result of his having been irreparably spoiled big time by ISU judges and Canadian fed et al. His comments unfortunately seem like the golden boy, chosen one, SS God throwing a temper tantrum.

    As far as "good cause," IMO, it is the feds who need to join together to get rid of ISU and create a twenty-first century governing body made up of former coaches and former skaters in part, which would have the best interests of skaters and of figure skating foremost and exclusively in their sights.


    ITA with you BittyBug. I too found the below comment by Patrick the most interesting and revealing:

    Patrick's above sentiments spark a lot of questions, IMO. Why exactly does Patrick feel he wouldn't have won Worlds in London had he not switched his training site to Detroit? He was not even in Detroit for that long before Worlds in any case. What was going on in Colorado that was so detrimental or uncomfortable?

    Patrick could also elaborate on why making the change was such a huge risk and a leap of faith. I think his taking on Kathy Johnson was much more of a huge risk and a leap of faith than switching training sites to a location that is closer to Canada and where he is surrounded by Canadian teammates. I disagree with those who constantly criticize and pick on Kathy Johnson, but still that decision by Patrick seems like more of a risk than switching training sites.

    As far as squeaking out another gold medal, I doubt the training site switch had anything at all to do with Patrick being awarded gold in London. Clearly ISU judges' decision-making, Patrick's SS, and IJS had much more to do with it -- and Pat might also give Jeff Buttle and Kathy Johnson a smidge of credit too. ;)
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    As far as penalties for non-participation, there are three for top-ranked skaters who opt out:

    * The skater can't perform or compete between the Monday after Worlds and after WTT.
    * The ISU can drop the team altogether. While Team Italy is a win, I'm not sure the Japanese Fed or the Japanese media would have wanted the USA and Canada to be dropped.
    * The ISU can go for sanctions against the Federation. I think the last time they made noise about this is when Kwan and Plushenko only wanted to do their home GP and were uninterested in the rest of GP.

    If there's an injury withdrawal, the skater can't perform or compete until a date TBA. (I don't remember seeing where they actually announced it, and there was at least one injury withdrawal, B/S.) That shows it was meant to be punitive, at least partially, because all injuries aren't created equal, and one date doesn't apply to everyone's recovery schedule or the severity of their injuries. I saw a performance recently where the lead male pulled a muscle, another man took his place in the next act, and he came back for the last one.

    I misunderstood one of the paragraphs and thought that only the skaters whose scores were used to determine team eligibility, but that's not a requirement. The only skaters who were required to participate or face sanctions -- and it looks like only the first bullet applied -- were:

    * For singles: One of the two top-ranked skaters from the country AND Top 10 at Worlds.
    * For teams: The top-ranked team from the country AND Top 10 at Worlds.

    The only skaters who were required to participate, barring injury withdrawal, were:

    USA: D/W, Gold, Wagner. The top-ranked US pair is Denney/Coughlin, who weren't at Worlds. Max Aaron, the only Top 10 US man at Worlds, is ranked 5th among US senior Men, 7th among all US Men.

    Canada: V/M, D/R, Chan, Reynolds, Osmond.

    France: P/B*, J/C, Joubert.

    China: P/T*, Li

    Japan: R/R, Murakami, Takahashi, Hanyu*. (Asada is the third-ranked Japanese Lady, top-ranked Suzuki was not Top 10 at Worlds.)

    Russia: V/T, B/S*, Sotnikova. (Tuktamysheva is the third-ranked Russian Lady; Leonova is first-ranked.)​

    *injured, although I'm not sure whose name was submitted officially and had a medical withdrawal.

    There is no provision that, well, W/P are second-ranked and top 10, so we can pretend they meet the criteria. Technically, the ISU couldn't have sanctioned Canada for replacing V/M with W/P than they could have if they had replaced Chan with third-ranked Rogozine.

    None of Zoueva's teams competed. While C/B placed one ahead of S/S, S/S are the second-ranked US team. They didn't go either. You can imagine the conversation: "How come I have to go, when V/M can just decide not to?" "Well, we can get away with sending W/P, who are Top 5 at Worlds and one rank out of being required to go, but, Patrick, sending Rogozine would look like a dis." I think that's where the "There's no one at my level" talk is coming from.

    Being forced to go and making money is better than being forced to go and not making money, but it's clear that his preference is not going, at least at that time, and not making money.

    The skaters get the gala after Worlds and their big blow out party. For some, WTT is a fun event with teammates before an appreciative audience in a great country, a way to blow off steam before the next season begins. For others, their heads are already out of this season and onto the next thing, whether that be SOI, preparing for next season, or hanging out on the sea. It's not keeping in shape to perform their Worlds programs weeks later.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
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  25. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    In a way I think his willingness to say anything makes him the right spokesperson. He will definitely bring up any cause that the skaters have, and if people don't agree, he takes the flack, no matter whose cause he's discussing.
  26. wickedwitch

    wickedwitch Well-Known Member

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    I was hoping that this would be a "figure skaters of the world unite against DiManno" article.
  27. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    The "right spokesperson," for what exactly?

    Figure Skaters United Against WTT Being Held After Worlds???

    Figure Skaters United Against Patrick Chan Having to Skate at WTT After A Disappointing Win at London Worlds???

    Figure Skaters United Against Being Exploited by the ISU??? (This type of cause might be long overdue, but it ain't gonna receive any traction with Patrick as spokesperson, IMHO). Patrick has been largely the one being generously gifted under IJS, so what exactly is his beef? Is it: "I want to skate when and where I want to skate and win all the time!"
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  28. Jot the Dot Dot

    Jot the Dot Dot Well-Known Member

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  29. query5

    query5 New Member

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    Patrick shut up. Tired at end of season sure so are your competitors.
    Should have skated in 1997/1998 season like michelle did. Started in october 1997 ended in July of 1998 with the Goodwill games. She did worlds after Olympics too. Also,a pro am.
    How about other years that did pro ams in May. Did the skaters admit being tire yes, but they also adfmited their competitors were too.
    They didnt insult the fans, media, public.
    Want to be like kurt, shut up. I dont remember kurt saying bad things about other skaters or implying better than,anyone else, thought it sure. Didnt state to public.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
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  30. query5

    query5 New Member

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    In past years skaters skated in pro am events in May and they were less important than,the wtt event.,
    The skaters admited to being tired but didnt insult irbrun anyine down becausr all in same boat.
    The viewing public wouldnt look kindly on them. Might hurt the skater trying to sell public regardless if color of medal.

    Heard of the word Sportmanlike conduct.
  31. query5

    query5 New Member

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    Wow figure skating is down.
    You wonder why
    You think. Imagine that.
  32. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

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    Skaters belong to their federations, right? don't they then compete under the rules of their federations? how would a skater's union work?

    I've heard the argument that Patrick is young and speaks without thinking and that he will learn for at least 4 years. It's past time for him to have learned and it is past time for hiring a PR team that zips his remarks by having someone always present with him.
  33. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

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    I think that Chan needs to learn how to deal with print journalists. His TV interviews are better for some reason. That being said, reading this article made me really miss Randy Starkman.


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  34. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    I'm really loving Chan <3 And I'm not being sarcastic :D
  35. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

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    all the more reason to have a PR person sitting right next to him. I am not sure that his TV interviews are better
  36. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

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    Agree about the PR. His TV interviews are OK.


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  37. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    TV interviews allow us to hear what was being asked and what he was answering in relation to. 'Print inteviews' is a summary of the interview. How it is summarised or presented may depend on the writer.
  38. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Is it the same Patrick Chan?

    Patrick Chan &#8207;@Pchiddy 15 Apr
    Thank you Tokyo for cheering Team Canada on all week long! Can't wait to come back soon. Domo Arigato!


    Agreed. The ISU should not send the better teams or better skaters to WTT but those who genuinely enjoy competing at this event. I hope they'll keep that in mind for 2015.

    Exactly what the World Skating Federation wanted to be.

    Do you happen to know why they failed?
  39. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    I remember very soon after WSF was announced the IOC just flat out said, not a chance. The ISU and IOC are both very Euro-centric...
  40. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    I am not a fan of Chan's skating, but I admire his taking the risks of saying this. Skaters, for too long, have been at the mercy of their feds and the ISU. Even if there are avenues for grievance, skaters seem reluctant to take them for fear of repercussions. The skaters have power; they need to use it.