Pair/Dance post national breakups

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by fan, Jan 18, 2010.

  1. fan

    fan Well-Known Member

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    It's that time of year again...let the splitting and rematching begin!

    I thought I'd start a list of all of the splitting - does anyone know of any? All countries welcome.

    Thanks.
     
  2. nirti

    nirti Member

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    1st split : Michael Stewart (from Pisotta/Stewart) is on icepartnersearch.
     
  3. TinySkater

    TinySkater New Member

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    Monica Pisota is now on ips too!
     
  4. thisyearsfool

    thisyearsfool New Member

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    Well, I read ISI: Online and according to their Nationals coverage:

    Any truth in that?
     
  5. newbatgirl

    newbatgirl Well-Known Member

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    I doubt this as McLaughlin was quoted right after Nats as saying that she could not imagine herself skating with anyone else. Of course, if Brubaker sees things differently...
     
  6. Spiralgraph

    Spiralgraph Active Member

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    I'd rather they not split up. but M/B's performance at US Nationals has got to make each of them consider their options. One thing for sure, they have to improve, or other teams will pass them by for good.
     
  7. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Lenko/Cheperdak had split up earlier this season and WD from Canadians. He's on Icepartnersearch.com.
     
  8. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Correct. He is too talented. Hmmmm....how about Baga/Brubaker?
     
  9. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like some BS opinion from an ignorant "reporter", to be honest.
     
  10. jobelle

    jobelle Member

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    I read a quote somewhere in the last week where Rockne said that they planned to stick together and that "they had never just planned on doing one Olympics anyway". It sounded to me like they are planning on staying together ... but, of course, that could always change. Sorry, I don't remember which article it was.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
  11. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

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    Yep they want to do 2 olympics.Article
     
  12. guccimomma

    guccimomma New Member

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    Correct. He is too talented. Hmmmm....how about Baga/Brubaker?
    I guess time will tell...Baga is only 14 and will still grow, Rockne needs someone that is full grown and Keauna size or smaller; which will be more difficult to find then one thinks.
     
  13. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

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    Have we heard about formal retirements (or is that another thread)?

    I would think there would be a few US pairs calling it quits this year. (Not looking for new partners, just moving on!)
     
  14. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    I just wanted to say more about this "article"...

    It's not just because I am a big fan of theirs... I find Keauna and Rockne's rapport on and off the ice to be quite good. I wish most pairs had the chemistry on the ice that they do. To "report" that they likely will split because they have "no rapport" is ridiculous and silly, in my opinion. Who the heck writes crap like that? Who knows who wrote it because I don't even see a name of an author on that page.

    I think one of the reasons why pair skating has been so weak in this country is because nobody has any patience with each other and looks to split once everything isn't all sunshine and rainbows. In sports, it is natural to have ups and downs, and nobody looking to have a long-term career is going to have all amazing years. And, gasp, there is no such thing as a perfect pairs partner. Sometimes, your partner will make mistakes. It happens!

    Maybe Shen & Zhao should have split after getting 15th at their first Worlds and then 11th the following year... Maybe Mukhortova & Trankov should have given up after getting 12th and 11th at their first two Worlds appearances... Maybe Dube & Davison should have split after getting 6th at Skate America and 10th at the Olympics one year... Hell, maybe both M/T and D/D should have split after losing Nationals-- Every pair should split unless they win Nationals EVERY year, right? Maybe Zhang & Zhang should have quit after getting 11th at their first Olympics. YAWN!

    Haha, sorry for the rant, but sometimes the expectations are too damn high for a pair that is only 17 and 23 years old. They missed out on an Olympic spot by about 8 pts, half of which were lost because of a messed up death spiral. A death spiral! A total fluke accident. This was after coming off of an Intl GP season in which they were, again, the most well-received US team there. Can we give these two a break already and let them mature and develop like every other top pair team in this world has done? Okay, rant over.
     
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  15. newbatgirl

    newbatgirl Well-Known Member

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    Well said. Echoes what Tai Babilonia said in one of Manleywoman's skatecasts about today's teams breaking up after one or two bad seasons and not giving their partnership a chance to grow. Look, not everyone can have instant success like Denney and Barrett. Most teams need to grow into each other.
     
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  16. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post, stjeaskategym, expectations were high and they faltered a bit. Hopefully they will have more time to grow especially under the guidance of John Nicks. I still have high hopes for them for the next four years.
     
  17. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree with the analysis...but I do wonder whether they're now physically too mismatched. She's a lot taller, he's pretty short, and I think that is a major contributor to the problem they've had on throws, and that isn't likely to get better over time.
     
  18. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

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    Regarding their improvement. What can their (Keauna's?) jump/consistency issues be traced to. Was she injured or is it just her having grown into her post puberty body and having to adjust to it?

    I love this team along with C&O. Even though they didn't make the team or skate as well as they would have liked, M&B's LP was artistically my favorite of the evening except for C&O. And only a couple of seasons ago they had an awesome technical arsenal as well. Keauna and Rockne are young enough to work on their skating and continue for another four years. I really hope they stick it out.
     
  19. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    I think that's a little harsh- they can do good throws. They were never going to have a big height disparity since he's somewhat short, but she's not tall either (and most likely done growing), so it works. Just because she's not a 14,15 year old scrawny kid doesn't mean they can't adjust, and I think they are doing well with that.

    I'm assuming nerves played a part at Nat'ls... From the practice footage, at least, they looked solid. Their throws have pretty good height and distance... They get better distance than most teams, and maybe with that comes a little less consistency-- I don't know. But M/B really did look good in practice. In the competition, they seemed tentative at times, particularly in the SP. I'm sure the pressure was intense, and only escalated after being so low after the SP. They were not only favored to win a 3rd title and make the Oly team, but they had never lost a Nat'l competition before. They are only human, and they were dealing with a different type of pressure than the others. I guess there's no sense in over-analyzing it... They probably don't understand entirely why they didn't skate so well last weekend (a couple of the mistakes were obviously odd), never mind me... But it was probably somewhat mental. As they get more experienced, it should get easier to handle everything.

    I am no coach, but one thing I would try in the future is to not bury a throw so late in their LP. Their throw 3L is in the last few seconds of their LP, and not even Savchenko/Szolkowy (the only other pair I can think of that does a throw that late) try something that hard/risky. It seems too tiring, and they've been shaky with it in competition this season. Obviously I don't see them every day in practice, but seeing them practicing like this earlier this season, you know they have it in them to skate really well... Maybe it's just a bit of a stamina thing. Even in the SP, their throw is relatively late compared to other teams that get it out of the way early on in the program. M/B are young and have time to play around with their element order as they go further.

    Sorry for the analysis... I probably sound like such an uber fan, but hey, someone has to defend them in this thread. :lol: I think they are too good and have too much potential to not be defended in this thread. And now we are off topic. :lol:
     
  20. ragdollcatmom

    ragdollcatmom New Member

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    Finally! Some love & encouragement for McBru... :)
     
  21. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    I really, really like McLaughlin/Brubaker, and as a Colorado skatefan I've been watching them live for years. My concern specifically on the throws was that when Keauna was smaller (height and weight) she and Rockne rarely, rarely missed a throw jump. In the past year of competition (not just Nationals) it has become very frequent. I don't think that's nerves. Maybe there is a technique adjustment, but they've been with two really good coaches, and if neither of them has been able to fix this then maybe it is just a really hard problem.

    That's no ding against either of them personally, but it does make me wonder about the long-term success of the partnership. I think they're the absolute top US team we've had in a very long time from a presentation standpoint, and I'm so very sorry that they aren't going to Vancouver, but
    I hope they're evaluating the root cause of the problem so that they don't continue on like this for the next four years. They are both far too talented and gifted.

    (*Note: Keauna is hyper-slim by anyone's standards, even more so when you see her in person. I am not IN THE LEAST suggesting that she's fat -- merely that she has added a couple of inches in height since they partnered up, and even with a really slim physique that inevitably adds both pounds and a change in the center of gravity.)
     
  22. distracted

    distracted New Member

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    Perhaps we should change this thread title to McBru Wonderings
     
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  23. plushenkofan

    plushenkofan New Member

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    Canadian ice dance team Sophie Knippel/Benjamin Westenberger broke up; she's on icepartnersearch.
     
  24. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    :lol: Sorry. I realize I'm not helping to keep it on topic, but I feel the need to reply.

    I don't think it's true that they used to "rarely miss throws" in competition. They've only been competing about 4 seasons now, and they've missed their fair share of throws each season. Maybe last year in their LPs they were rather consistent with the throws, but not in the SP (where the throw was at the very end of the program and was eventually moved earlier). The prior season was their first year doing two throw triples, and they messed up plenty of them. And in their first year together, they were only doing one throw triple, which Keauna had just learned... Looking back on that season, it's pretty obvious their throw 3S is more reliable now than it was back then. So I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say they used to never miss. I think you would change your mind that they were better at throws when Keauna was younger if you went back to watch some of their comps from the '06-'07 or '07-'08 seasons. :)

    I think it's safe to say the success they have had so far hasn't been because they are super consistent. They're obviously still working on the consistency thing (as are most pair teams). Like you mentioned, maybe there are technical adjustments to make... Maybe it's a matter of transferring what they do in practice into competition... And like I said before, it might help to not do a throw so late in a program. I think they will figure things out as time goes on.

    As for the rest of your comment, I understand what you are saying, but all girls will eventually mature and fill out a little (well, except like Dan Zhang and Qing Pang :lol: but they both grew quite tall instead). I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any skaters who don't have to make any adjustments when their bodies change. After all, this is pairs, and the leaders in pairs are women, not prepubescent kids. Keauna is still not tall, and although Rockne may be on the short side, he obviously doesn't have a typical rail-thin skater's body and is strong. You don't need a big height difference to land throws. Nobody gives a darn that Shen/Zhao only have a 6 or 7 inch height difference when they land those awesome throws of theirs. On the opposite end of the spectrum, there are teams with massive size differences who can't land throws to save their lives. So I guess I'm just not as worried about Keauna & Rockne's throws as much as you are. :) To me, if they are looking good in practice, eventually everything will click in competition.

    Sorry I rambled on and on... again. I hope I don't sound like their publicist or something. hahaha. I'm just throwing in my two cents.
     
  25. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    Brubaker is definitely the stronger skater, and the more consistent one. He also shows more expression on the ice than a lot of other male pair skaters.

    Perhaps this was a wake-up call that they need to be more consistent, and Keana 's jumps in particular are a problem she needs to work on.
     
  26. MysticHaze

    MysticHaze Member

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    Well we will get a better assessment of McLaughlin-Brubaker this week as they compete in Four Continents where they have a good chance to medal if they skate well. The only other top teams there are Duhamel-Buntin and the Zhangs.
     
  27. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Are they at Four Continents? (Edited to add yes, I see they are. Somehow I thought they'd also declined. I hope it works for them.)
     
  28. apollo13

    apollo13 Member

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    I thought this was a Break-Up thread. Apparently not.
     
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  29. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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  30. loopey

    loopey Well-Known Member

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    I agreed with your first post and with this one also.

    I would also like to add. That getting through the "puberty" stage is brutal for many many female skaters. It takes time to fully rotate triples when your height, weight, and balance changes. I imagine this effects most aspects of pairs moves too, and will require Rockne's timing to change as well. This team has been through a lot in a year: Two growth spurts for Keanu, timing and balance changes for them both, new coaching staff, new city to live in, being away from parents/family/friends, and all this in an Olympic year which means tremendous pressure.

    Count me as one that sincerely hopes they stick it out and stay together.
     
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