OY! Nathalie and fabian. Have they lost too much ground?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by arakwafan2006, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. MissJD

    MissJD Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    440
    I'll try! ;) Each "part" represents a change in the music.

    Part 1: The rose grows/ blooms and the Little Prince discovers it. This is kind of like a courting section - getting to know one another, a general fascination. Not a lot of story particulars to go through yet. (through about 1:19, this is the first section of music, which has a waltzy/ romantic feel to it.)

    Part 2: In the story, the rose asks the prince to do things for her/ take care of her. The more he does, the more demanding she becomes. Notice Nathalie's arm movements throughout the step sequence - like she's telling him to do this and do that. Notice how when they're not in hold, he's behind her, and she's "leading." The more upbeat music in this section expresses the back and forth and push and pull of the relationship. (through about 2:06)

    Part 3: Begins with him placing her down from the lift. In this section of the story the prince becomes tired of the rose's demands and becomes upset with her after she lies to him. Eventually they reconcile, but he leaves her to explore other planets. The sadder tone of this music represents the decline in the relationship. As far as movements, notice how Fabian turns away from her around 3:02 and looks toward other things. Then Nathalie (the rose) grabs him and pulls him back to her, he reaches away again, but stays with her. During the lift at 3:20, he's supporting her, but by the end of the section at 3:30, he's left her again to go explore.

    Part 4: In this section the prince returns to his planet and his rose. During his travels he realized how much she means to him and that she truly is special, so he returns to take care of her. This is the most upbeat music, and the "happiest" section because both the prince and the rose have what they desire. Think of it as kind of frolicking about! (Although in the actual story, we don't know if the prince made it back to his planet.)

    Disclaimer: This is my best effort to explain how I see it. I have no clue if this is how they see it, and I'm not offended if others have different opinions! But maybe this will help you? :)
     
  2. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,461
    Yes - it does help - quite a lot! Now I will go watch it again with all this in mind.

    Thanks for that explanation - it was clear, specific and REALLY helpful - and I bet not just to me.

    You are :rockstar: X 2
     
  3. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,450
    Thank you :). That's a great explanation - helpful for me too, as I read 'Little Prince' so many years ago that I don't really remember much of it.
     
  4. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,905
    Awesome explanation - I've always loved this story (also the part with the Little prince's encounter with the fox). May Nathalie & Fabian have great success with this (and their sp) @ the Olympics/Worlds.
     
  5. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,232
    The encounter with the fox is up there as one of my favorite moments in literature. So human.
     
  6. MissJD

    MissJD Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    440
    You're all very welcome. Glad it was helpful!
     
  7. FiveRinger

    FiveRinger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,900
    I am watching Universal Sports and Tanith has made specific references to Bobrova' s poor posture and sloppiness and the fact that it takes away from what they can do. She also says that B & S are not so much stronger than W& P that they should be so much farther ahead after the FD. She attributes their success to the traditional approach to the dance.

    Thank you for the explanation if B & P's FD.

    I think part of the problem with B & P is that the performance is not matching up to the creativity. Sometimes people try so hard to be unique that the audience gets lost. When a team attempts to do something different they have to be better than great for people to accept that new standard. We shouldn't need an explanation. It should stand on it's on. I would also say on the flip side that if a team is going to perform to a piece that we've seen a gazillion times it needs to be better than anything ever seen just to keep us from getting bored.

    I respect B & P for making the attempt. What they are attempting to do is hard as hell. Very few teams are able to do both. Torvill and Dean come to mind. I wish them much success this season.
     
  8. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,403
    Why anyone attempts to be creative under IJS, I don't even know. The backlash is basically always "I don't get it" (I'm not calling out you for this-- I know you are saying something more nuanced; it's what I've been generally picking up) and that's from the same people who turn around and decry that skaters use the same 10-20 pieces of music year in and year out. There is also zero reward for trying something new/something this difficult. When P/B are gone next year, there will just be one less team putting out original work. No one is going to replace them. The young junior teams coming up have no concept of dance pre-IJS.
     
  9. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,307
    There are some lower ranked teams that are at least trying to do concept-driven stuff - Zhiganshina/Gazsi obviously, and this season I'd also add Gilles/Poirier and Hurtado/Diaz. I agree that it's up to the individual teams to emphasize this if they find it important, though, since the IJS obviously doesn't. It's much more effective to channel your creativity into coming up with new lifts.
     
  10. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    9,330
    I think if they skate the SD well in Sochi they'll be in 3rd, IMO it's one of the best, if not the best at capturing the character while also showing off their personalities. It's the FD that will be harder to pull off, but once they get the technique up and increase their speed I think this program will come alive. These two programs are so much better than the two they've had the past couple seasons IMO. I think Bobrova would be amazing at shotput or javelin throwing.. I think they look really rough. Overall I think they are most def still in it and I think the judges really like them, but I would put money on I/K because their SL FD just screams medal on home ice to me.

    I am so incredibly bored watching both V/M and D/W this year, V/M's FD in particular makes me feel like I'm trapped in a room in Lucille Ball's house being forced to watch 50's romance movies all day long in black and white with no popcorn or candy available and the faint smell of mothballs in the distance. :(
     
  11. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,403
    I like these 3 dances as well. Notice that these are 3 of a very small number of elite teams not out of those Detroit dance factories.
     
  12. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,748
    Thank you sooooo much or this, MissJD. I am familiar with the story but had not been able to match it to orresponding parts as you have. Wow! I watched it a few more times keeping what you said in mind, and i love it even more. Thanks again :)
     
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    This. :(

    It is supposed to matter in theory if you look at some of the criteria for components or even the GOE (lifts not being in character of the music should warrant a deduction). The problem is, ISU doesn't seem be concerned about the problems of translating that theory into practice. At the moment there is a very big gap between the two.

    If you look at the judging criteria for PCS for Ice Dance, you get this huge very detailed table. It gives you all of the information but it doesn't tell you anything about how to actually, practically make those judgements. What if a team meats most of the criteria for Choreography mark 7.00 but some only to an extent and one almost not at all (and you'd have to remember it in the first place :shuffle:)?
     
  14. vivika1982

    vivika1982 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,695
    Right on! :respec: And to think that Nathalie and Fabien were criticized for using the same cookie cutter :rolleyes: when almost everyone else is doing the same . Politicking before Olympics really ticks me off. P/B have two great programs .Period! The rest is up them ,how well they'll polish and make it faster and better.

    :lol: Ah,the good black and white oldies
     
  15. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    759
    After watching the SD, I cant help but notice that Fabian does not look very fit in general. The Twizzles were just... lets not even go there. I am sad for this team to be honest.
     
  16. sequins

    sequins Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    826
    I haven't seen it yet but I am sad just looking at where they are. I don't know what it is so far this season but you say Fabian doesn't look fit and maybe that's it. To me he's looked like he's already 'gone', like retired, like he knows what ther fate is and he doesn't want to waste his time with this anymore. I can't say I blame him.
     
  17. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    759
    Not much Igor can do to help that. I hope that what you said is not true however
     
  18. sequins

    sequins Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    826
    I hope it's not true either and I'm sure if it it was it wouldn't be intentional. We know how hard last year was, we seen it in their faces that's not easily forgotten and it's hard to get motivated again and fight back especially after the career they've had, they aren't new to this and sometimes you've just had enough. I absolutely love them and I just want them to forget the judges, forget it all and just skate for themselves and their fans.
     
  19. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    10,174
    Right. Even if they feel like they can't win a medal, they should go out like Delobel/Schoenfelder in the Vancouver OD and FD when they fell behind after the CD. Just enjoy the experience for what it is and give a performance you can be proud of when you re-watch it in a few decades.
     
  20. AlexDSSF

    AlexDSSF Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    115
    Sometimes I think that ice dancing would be more interesting and fun if all the dancers did was twerk on the ice.
     
  21. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    460
    So glad they were able to push up to 3rd at the GPF. 3rd place is where they belong. Those horrible, hunchbacked, flailing russians should be last.
     
  22. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,403
    Let's take our victories where we can get them! This is a well-earned, important bronze for P/B. Fifth here would have been a brutal result.
     
  23. sequins

    sequins Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    826
    Clearly Fabian has decided to come out of retirement:lol: What a difference! I am so happy for them. They went out there and nailed it. That is the first time I can honestly say that I am liking this FD, I can see it, I can feel it, I am a fan! It's sure as hell is better that that sad FD B/S have been given. i feel bad for them but I really want this for P/B, and it looks like that Olympic medal ain't out of reach yet.:D
     
  24. MissJD

    MissJD Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    440
    I am soo excited for them! I thought they performed their FD really well and definitely deserved bronze! :cheer: And I'm also glad people are warming up to their FD! :cheer:
     
  25. CassAgain

    CassAgain Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    889
    They were so on today--I couldn't be more happy for them.
     
  26. nuge

    nuge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,077
    I'm over the moon for them :) The FD is gorgeous.Fabian looked very happy inspecting his medal and he seemed to be impressed with the design or something :lol:
     
  27. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,124
    Yes! P/B deserve to be 3rd, for their extraordinary mature elegance combined with fresh and innovative ideas! I have loved French dance teams ever since i started to watch skating and they're living up to the expectations. I want them to snag that OBM.