Oscar Pistorius on murder charge

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by skatefan, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Why assume it was a fast round of bullets? It's just as likely that it took Oscar a few minutes to fire them.

    Since the victim apparently was apparenty shot through her hand, into her head, she was probably attempting to protect her head. That implies that she was shot somewhere else in her body prior to being shot in the hand and head, which limits the theory that she was immediately knocked unconscious. Again, no scream?
     
  2. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I think there's a lot of speculation at this point, based on incomplete and sometimes incorrect information. We can't assume that the shots were fired quickly, but there's no reason to assume otherwise, either (the "several minutes" possibility doesn't seem all that likely to me, but who knows?). Some of the evidence is probably still being tested. I don't see a problem with speculating about the possible sequence of events, but it should be done based on the understanding that there are still some unknowns and that not all the details have been made public.
     
  3. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    If he was really worried and scared of a break in, and had just woken up, it's understandable that he would panic and do something, like shoot the supposed intruder. People do react differently to different situations, so you can't generalize. According to Pistorius he did not put on his prosthetic legs. The prosecution said that he did (based on the story I read on cnn.com). I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because no one actually saw him do it. Let the courts decide whether he was guilty of murder or if it was a tragic mistake.
     
  4. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    I can see there being no screams while she was being shot, but two other points stand out to me - he says he called out when still in the bedroom, apparently telling the intruder to get out and calling for Reeva. Even if the bathroom was tucked away in a corner with the door closed, surely in the middle of the night in a residential neighbourhood, she would have responded and he would have heard it. Then again, I guess it's possible that if she heard him yelling at an intruder, she thought it best to stay hidden quietly in the bathroom. She might have imagined the intruder had come in through the patio or bedroom door, and that's where the altercation was taking place, so she took cover - perhaps crouching or hiding her head in fear.

    Secondly, he also said he heard a noise in the bathroom as he approached, and that's why he started shooting. If she was indeed under the impression that there was an intruder, she might have thought it best to stay quiet in the bathroom and hope that the intruder never found her.

    Another point in his account that jumps out at me is that he says several times that he was too scared to turn on a light. Perhaps he thought he could sneak up on an intruder or have some advantage in the dark, but he says specifically that he was scared - so why didn't he turn on a light?
     
  5. Cruella

    Cruella New Member

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    Few of the points offered in his affadavit are credible, in my opinion. Surely other women -- even Reeva herself -- have spent the night at his house before. And surely, on more than one occasion, more than one of these women have gotten up to use the washroom, get a drink from the kitchen, etc. And yet, they are all alive. So there was something very different about the situation with this woman on this night. If I were the prosecutor, I'd be contacting every ex-girlfriend and interviewing her about how many times she stayed over and how many times she might have gotten up in the night.

    Even if it's true that he believed in good faith that he was acting in his and Reeva's best interest, his interpretation of the events flies in the face of all logic and makes him delusional and dangerous. I'm not sure I see the case for premeditation but I suspect (and have read) this could be a legal tactic to get a guilty plea for a reduced charge.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  6. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    Maybe that "oh I am so scared" thing is what happened but then he is stupid with guns. Anyone I know with a gun and sense has a pre-developed plan about how to use a gun in the house with safe words and escape routes so you know where all the inhabitants are before you start shooting.
     
  7. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    That would require putting his legs on, no? Unless he lived in a Paris-apartment-sized suite and could hop off his bed right onto the toilet. Given his wealth, I find that very unlikely.

    I also find it very unlikely that he would "head to the bathroom" without his legs on. He'd be a sitting duck crawling on the floor once he ran out of rounds.

    My fiancé has had SO many narrow escapes. Multiple times a night. :eek:

    :wall: Not so funny now, huh?
     
  8. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    OTT but that explains the proliferation of the Russian meteorite videos. Everyone and their mother has a dash cam.
     
  9. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    This will likely be a key point - how mobile is he without his legs? He might be surprisingly mobile, keeping in mind that he's also very athletic.

    I suspect analyzing the angles of the bullet holes in the bathroom door will tell prosecutors something - if he was at a lower angle. In addition, if they can discern if he was shooting low as though at someone who is sitting down or crouching, or if he was shooting high as though at someone hiding behind the door.

    And from that, I wonder how much of the evidence was destroyed when he smashed in the door with the cricket bat, and if that was deliberate.

    That tweet actually supports his contention that he honestly thought there was a threat.
     
  10. Yehudi

    Yehudi Well-Known Member

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    For those who work in forensics, how long does it take to analyze a scene and come to the conclusion of pre-meditated murder? It seems like he was charged immediately whereas TV shows tell us they need at least a day or two to analyze blood spatter, bullet trajectory, and comb the scenes for DNA.
     
  11. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    In the article I read, the prosecutor mentioned the possibility of a lesser (than premeditated murder) charge sometime later. It means the prosecutor does not even fully believe this was premeditated.
     
  12. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    There have been two recent cases in the news that I can recall where the father killed the son because he thought the son was a burglar. Accidents do happen.
     
  13. CanuckSk8r

    CanuckSk8r New Member

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    Purely speculation of course - I am assuming the noises coming from the washroom were not typical sounds of usage, I am assuming there were thuds or other loud noises. Perhaps she fell/tripped hit her head (creating the head wound and potential explaination for the shot through her hand from her holding it), those sounds sounded like an intruder to him and things went from there.

    As for it being unlikely that he not think of Reeva first when waking - sure if they lived there that would be more likely. I live by myself, when my house makes strange noises in the night, I grab my glasses and go into panicked ninja mode. When I have had house guests and my house makes strange noises, I grab my glasses and go into panicked ninja mode - even sleeping in a different room it takes me some time to remember that there is someone else in the house.

    As a disclaimer, I am not on either the guilty or not-guilty side of this tragedy. I try to look at all possible scenarios.
     
  14. duane

    duane New Member

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    What a ridiculous story! If not for a dead woman, it would be comical.

    I don't buy the story, nor his claim of being so fearful of an intruder. I think he is simply using the country's high crime statistics to his advantage..
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  15. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    This is why people shouldn't keep guns at their bedside. Even people who think they wake up 100% alert, rarely do.
     
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  16. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Ironically, he added to those crime statistics.
     
  17. Gazpacho

    Gazpacho Well-Known Member

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    If it's true that Reeva's skull was crushed--something that has only been reported in the media and not court documents--then Oscar is as innocent as OJ. You can't crush someone's skull by bashing a bathroom door with a cricket bat.

    Even if Reeva's skull wasn't crushed, I still think he's guilty based on the affidavit. I can't say if he's guilty of premeditated murder because I don't know how the term is defined in that jurisdiction. But no way was this an accidental mistaken intruder killing. Too many pieces don't make sense, as pointed out by others in this thread.
     
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  18. 4rkidz

    4rkidz GPF Barcelona here I come

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    hmm.. parts of this just don't make sense.. I struggle to understand why he wouldn't realize she wasn't in the bed - unless he was drugged up and really panicked.. I do understand the level of vulnerability of him without his legs and living in the situation where he is.. however, by choosing to have a loaded weapon and choosing to use it makes him guilty.. so then the issue just becomes .. was it premeditated? I can't see how this is truly accidental when he chooses to have a loaded gun and is totally irresponsible in its usage.. My concern though with the legalities - is it in SA whereby if you are not guilty of premeditated then you are off scott free??? Someone told me that at work today.. that all his defense has to do is prove it was NOT pre meditated..?? :confused:
     
  19. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Having seen the diagram of the bathroom and that Reeva was sitting on the toilet, far away from the door, the skull bashing makes even less sense.
     
  20. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    If he'd claimed that he was on sleeping medication, that might have been believable. Doesn't seem that he's gone that route.
     
  21. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    Someone suggested he had roid rage (steroids, not hemeroids).

    He shot through a closed door 4 times and hit her 3 times? And one was a deadly shot? Maybe he's in the wrong sport.
     
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  22. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Eh, not really that impressive when you consider that he was at close range with a captive victim. He may have fired through the door a few times and/or beat the door with the cricket bat, and then looked through the holes in the door to position the fatal shot.
     
  23. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    Sometime before dawn, Pistorius said he awoke, and walking only on his stumps, pulled a fan in from an open balcony and closed it.

    So he wasn't awakened abruptly by a noise in the bathroom; he may still have been groggy, but he was capable of at least some coherent, conscience thought.

    “I am acutely aware of violent crime being committed by intruders entering homes,” he said. “I have received death threats before. I have also been a victim of violence and of burglaries before. For that reason I kept my firearm, a 9 mm Parabellum, underneath my bed when I went to bed at night.”

    So he went to the bed to get his gun and didn't check to see if she was there? Chivalry is truly dead.
     
  24. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    If he's quite mobile without the prosthetics, I don't think he would have mentioned feeling so afraid. Even if he's able to stand on his stumps, the other person would probably be a lot taller than him, and have a lot of leverage.

    My thoughts exactly. The ballistics, if the evidence is intact, should be clear at what height he was shooting from. Even if they have to put the door back together, they can still figure it out if there are bulletholes in the bathroom anywhere.
     
  25. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Well, I suppose hemorrhoids *could* make some people really nuts.

    Thank you for a great laugh!!
     
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  26. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    That is what made me suspicious of the police in this case. Lots of men with his personality type and history would be easy to frame for something like this.

    I remember hearing from "experts" when Nicole Brown Simpson died about how her fatal wound was consistent with a domestic violence killing.

    This killing seems like overkill. While it's possible that it might be domestic violence, four shots after a bludgeoning seems a bit unusual for this type of killing. Usually it's one weapon or another, but not two.
     
  27. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    No one needed to frame him. He shot her. The only question is whether he did it knowingly or not.

    Forensic evidence can take months, even years to process. Most police officers can do the basics (blood spatter, angle of shot, etc) on their own on the spot. If the cops waited for all the forensic evidence to be processed in most cases, very few people would be arrested.

    As for the forensic science labs, they're overwhelmed with evidence that police and attorneys want examined.

    The National Institute of Justice estimates a backlog of 200,000 to 300,000 DNA samples awaiting analysis in crime labs around the country.

    People also have developed an unrealistic sense of how long it takes to investigate a case, said Patricia McFeeley, a forensic pathologist with the University of New Mexico Health Sciences Center.

    On the TV dramas, toxicology results are available almost instantaneously. That's why in real life, family members of a victim often cannot understand why it takes months to obtain a death certificate, McFeeley said.


    Forensics: Fact Vs. fiction. TV shows make crime solving look easy but in real life it's not so simple

    And that's when forensic analysis is available. Most police do not have access to anything even close to what they have on TV.
     
  28. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    I saw photos of his washroom. I have never seen a square toilet before. I don't know how comfortable that would be. And I always hit the toilet when I get out of the shower, so I can imagine some really bad bruises if my toilet were quad-shaped.
     
  29. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I'll be the one to mention it, as everyone else is pussy-footing around it. If Reeva was sitting on the toilet relieving herself, and Oscar shot her while she was still sitting on there, there should have been some crucial evidence left behind.
     
  30. Gazpacho

    Gazpacho Well-Known Member

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    Unless she was straining and couldn't get it out. I don't think Reeva being or not being on the toilet itself is material to the case. There isn't much question that she was in the toilet room for whatever reason.