Oscar Pistorius on murder charge

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by skatefan, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    I heard that on the radio this morning. Yeah, as if competing is even an option. It isn't as if someone else murdered his gf and he decided to cancel all upcoming races to help in the investigation any way he could. He is in jail and without bail, right? His agent should have known better than to even say he would cancel his races, that doesn't come across right, not that murdering your girlfriend does either. I also heard that his sponsors are supposedly sticking by him. Yeah, right. Maybe they worked out some deal where they wont announce anything right now but it is coming and we all know it and so do the sponsors.
     
  2. Prancer

    Prancer Dysteleological Staff Member

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    Nike and Oakley dropped him earlier today.
     
  3. heckles

    heckles Banned Member

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    It was probably his agent's attempt to make Oscar look good, as in, Oscar takes this issue so seriously that even if he got bail, he wouldn't plan to resume life like nothing happened. OJ Simpson looked pretty bad when he resumed playing golf right after he got out of the clink.
     
  4. Prancer

    Prancer Dysteleological Staff Member

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    Prosecutors accused Oscar Pistorius, the double amputee track star and one of the world’s best-known athletes, of premeditated murder on Tuesday, saying he opened fire four times on his girlfriend through a locked bathroom door after putting on his prosthetic legs and walking more than 20 feet from a bedroom.

    Mr. Nel, the prosecutor, said on Tuesday: “If I arm myself, walk a distance and murder a person, that is premeditated,” he said. “The door is closed. There is no doubt. I walk seven meters and I kill.”

    He added “The motive is ‘I want to kill.’ That’s it.”


    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/w...court-seeking-bail-on-murder-charge.html?_r=0

    So there's the reason for the premeditation charge.
     
  5. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    He is officially claiming that he thought she was an intruder - says he woke up and found her not in bed and was scared, and thought someone had broken in through the bathroom window - Reuters story.

    I'm sure there will be much discussion now about that bathroom window - how big, how accessible, if it was the most likely place for an intruder to enter etc. Also, according to the article, the bathroom was very small - 1.4 by 1.14 metres or about 4.5 feet by 3.7 feet - so she had nowhere to hide once he started shooting.
     
  6. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Depending on what type of mental state Pistorius was in that night, it's possible that he thought he was shooting at an intruder through the bathroom's door. If Pistorius was a responsible and well-trained gun owner, you would think that he would've yelled out his girlfriend name first to make sure she was safe somewhere before shooting his gun at the "intruder". I'm sure the defense will go with "his mental state not being in the right of frame of mind that night" angle ....but his girlfriend was supposedly shot first in the bedroom before she locked herself inside the bathroom so that would be very difficult to explain.

    ETA:

    From the article linked by Prancer:

    It seems like Pistorius was always worried about break-ins in his house, so it's odd that we wouldn't have had all the windows secured also when the house was built.


    The above reasoning seems plausible enough; He felt panicky and the adrenaline kicked in, although it's difficult for me to understand the firing blindly through the door part. Again, if Steenkamp had been shot before going into the bathroom then he won't be able to explain it, but we don't really know if that was true or not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  7. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Just realizing I got the order wrong - he says he woke to a noise and headed to the bathroom thinking it was an intruder, shot through the door and then shouted to Reeva to call the police, only then realizing she wasn't in bed. He says he then bashed open the door with the cricket bat and found her.
     
  8. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    Wouldn’t you say “who is in there”, or even "hey, MF, I have a gun, get out of my house", prior to shooting through your bathroom door? Especially if you have a guest in the house.
     
  9. elka_sk8

    elka_sk8 Well-Known Member

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    But wasn't her skull crushed too? How does he explain that?
     
  10. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    I'm guessing that's going to be the defense - that woken by the noise he acted quickly and impulsively, rather than logically. It's easy for us to say, how didn't you notice that your girlfriend wasn't in bed and how did you not assume the most obvious thing, that it was she using the bathroom? Why didn't you call out for her, or attempt to scare off the intruder? Why did you think it necessary to shoot an intruder who was in a confined space, rather than call the police first and simply guard the door in case he came out?

    But in the heat of the moment, he's likely to say that there was no time to think logically because he thought he was in danger, or even that his girlfriend was in danger too. The defense may then establish a known danger - a history of break ins and robberies in the community perhaps, a pattern of using bathroom windows to get into the master bedroom quickly, reasons why a criminal would choose his house (known valuables in the house), previous threats on his life, etc that will suggest that he had good reason to jump to the conclusion that it was an intruder and there was a potential danger significant enough to respond with a gun.

    For the cricket bat, he might say that it was dark, and in the course of smashing in the door, he hit her head.

    The fact that he moved the body is reminding me of another famous murder case - JonBenet Ramsey's father discovered her body in the basement and carried it up the stairs and laid it by the Christmas tree, thus compromising the murder scene and the body, and leading many to suggest that he did so on purpose.
     
  11. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    We don't have all the facts at this point. Bits and pieces printed by the media in the past few days should not be totally trusted.
     
  12. millyskate

    millyskate Well-Known Member

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    [SUP][/SUP]
    You would unless you were drunk and high on drugs and prone to anger management issues and paranoia and had just had an argument with your girlfriend anyway prompting you to be in a "don't care about anything anyway" frame of mind.

    I don't think drink or drugs should ever be extenuating circumstances but they are contributing circumstances.
    They're substances that are designed to make you lose control and do just that, aggravating existing character flaws and removing censors.
     
  13. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    According to Oscar, they had gone to bed some time earlier, and he awoke to sounds that he thought came from an intruder. Sounds like his defense will be that it was an honest mistake, perhaps resulting from the late hour/that he had been startled awake, and general circumstances that make it reasonable that he would jump to conclusions.

    The police perspective seems to be that there was a history of domestic disturbance, including immediately preceding the murder (witnesses have been referenced). Their position is that this was deliberate and a likely a direct result of a fight between the two that led her to lock herself in the bathroom and him to go after her with the gun.

    From what I've read, no one on either side has suggested any form of intoxication played into what happened. There have been references to testing, but I would think that was normal procedure.
     
  14. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    Who on earth would hear a noise in the bathroom and automatically think it is an intruder without even checking if his girlfriend is lying right beside him? It takes a split second to reach out a hand, even if it is pitch dark. He was composed enough to put on his two prostethic legs and to take the gun. Why wouldn't he make sure it wasn't his girlfriend before shooting through a closed door?
     
  15. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    It really doesn't make sense that he was aware enough to put on his legs and yet miss that she wasn't in bed...
     
  16. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I think some people may wake up more confused than others, or even do such things while not fully awake. Of course, if you know you're like that, then having easily accessible guns in your house is probably not a very bright idea.
     
  17. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    That's what I was trying to say in the post above - that logically it doesn't make sense at all. But it sounds like his defense will be that at that moment and for whatever reason, his first thought was intruder. He could even say that having been startled awake, he didn't immediately recall that his girlfriend had stayed over that night, should be in bed and reasonably might have got up to use the bathroom, resulting in the noise that awoke him. His defense team might say that it happens to all of us - those first moments when you awake, before you realize what day it is or remember something important. As I said, I suspect his defense will also attempt to build a case to say that it was reasonable for him to jump to the conclusion that there was an intruder and that he needed to act quickly and decisively.

    btw, he is saying that he approached the door and shot without his legs (not quite sure how he did that, but the fact that he claims he did it suggests that he had enough mobility without the legs), then called to his girlfriend to call the police and only then realized she wasn't in bed, put the legs on and broke the door down.

    The challenge for his defense team is that the jury is likely to think like the rest of us, and not buy his story at all, thinking that if it were them, they would realize immediately that she wasn't in bed and conclude she was in the bathroom, and that they would have called out to her, and that they would not have just started firing through a bathroom door like that.
     
  18. Alixana

    Alixana who is on vacation!!

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    Report said he put on his legs AFTER shooting. Not defending his actions, just clarifying this one point.
     
  19. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    That means don't go to the bathroom in the middle of the night lest your significant other shoots you. Wow, I've had so many narrow escapes.
     
  20. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    This is interesting - here is what Oscar says happened, in his own words from the court affidavit.

    He says he has been threatened before, thought he was protecting himself and his girlfriend, and gives his explanation as to why he didn't immediately think it was her in the bathroom.

    Also, it's a bit confusing the way he refers to the bathroom - I saw a sketch in one news report, and it seems that it was a large bathroom with a tub in the open, a shower stall, and a smaller room with a toilet and sink that had a door within the larger bathroom.

    ETA - here's the graphic of the bathroom floorplan.
     
  21. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    How many of us live in a state where we're always on the edge of someone breaking into our house? Apparently that's the condition that a certain segment of the African population live with. It's so easy to judge how differently we would've react, but no one knows until you're faced with the situation.

    The information that have leaked out in the past few days painted a picture of an abusive guy that wanted to off his girlfriend. I don't buy that picture anymore. I definitely want to hear more concrete evidence of what happened that night.
     
  22. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    There is no jury trial in South Africa. Don't know if that will hurt or help him.
     
  23. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    ohhh didn't know that - so it's just up to a judge to rule? Or is there a panel?

    That might actually help the defense, if all they need to do is cast doubt on the prosecution's case. Less likely to be emotional responses as one might expect from a jury.

    Mind you, the court of public opinion could have a big effect too - if the public thinks he did it deliberately, there will be pressure to convict him, no? He's apparently hired an expert PR person, which is normal just for dealing with media requests, but there could certainly be more to that move if moving public opinion is going to be important.

    One thing that has struck me - if indeed it was an honest mistake, how horrible not to be able to go to your girlfriend's funeral or share in her mourning.
     
  24. Wiery

    Wiery Well-Known Member

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    I used to work for a South African-owned company; most of the employees were South African, and they stated that protective, fortress-like fences, guard dogs, and firearms are considered a requirement as home invasions, robbery, murder, and kidnapping are common. People are not safe in their homes and must always be alert for possible intrusion in South Africa. It usually wasn't just one person invading the home, either, it was usually several people, and they were often very organized and armed.

    One thing we do not know is what the South African police force is like; are they corrupt? The dashcams in Russian cars pointed out to me that in many places of the world, the police cannot be trusted; if corruption was endemic within the South African police force, then they might have taken Pistorius in and pressed charges in hopes of extorting money from him or the family. I would also like more information about the supposed previous domestic incidents.

    I haven't made up my mind on this case, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered before I'm going to believe he is guilty or innocent.
     
  25. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    I don't know the answer to that.
     
  26. Alixana

    Alixana who is on vacation!!

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    CNN or CBC (can't remember which) said this morning that it would be a panel of 3 .. a judge sitting and two assessors – usually magistrates or retired magistrates.
     
  27. heckles

    heckles Banned Member

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    I'd find his story more believable if he had just said that he'd forgotten she was spending the night. Here he's essentially precluding that type of defense.

    Also, considering that she didn't die until sometime later, it's pretty odd that he shot through the door multiple times without verbal feedback from her that she was in the bathroom rather than in bed. No scream, moan, nothing, from her?

    As in, "Hey Reeva, call the police, there's someone in the bathroom!"

    "You idiot, it's ME in the bathroom!"
     
  28. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    He appears to be saying at the end of the transcript that Reeva was in bed when he got up to go to the balcony, but while he was there, she got up and went to the bathroom. He didn't see her get up. So he thought he she was still in bed. Still, there are discrepancies between his account of an early quiet night going to bed at 10 pm and the earlier reports that had neighbors calling about a loud argument and the cops arriving at midnight.

    I read this in one of the articles about this incident:

    "In a message posted on Twitter on 27 November last year, Pistorius wrote: "Nothing like getting home to hear the washing machine on and thinking its an intruder to go into full combat recon mode into the pantry!"" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/14/oscar-pistorius-murder-girlfriends-shooting
     
  29. heckles

    heckles Banned Member

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    I'm still finding it a little hard to believe that it wouldn't occur to him that the person in his bathroom could be his girlfriend, even if he allegedy did not hear her. Also, if he's as vigilant about protecting his home as he wants us to believe, it's strange that he leaves the balcony doors open at night.
     
  30. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    What if the first bullet hit her in the head and she immediately became unconscious? Also, I'd imagine it was a fast round of four bullets that were fired, so there wasn't time to hear the victim moaned if there was any sound from the victim.