Oscar Pistorius on murder charge

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by skatefan, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. Wiery

    Wiery Well-Known Member

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    Reuters reports that Pistorius shot Reeva four times through the bathroom door. I wonder if she was in the bathroom, or he was in the bathroom; I haven't been able to find out the exact positioning. If she was barricaded inside the bathroom door; this scenario would seem to point towards murder. However if he was inside the bathroom, the exact situation seems a bit more unclear; still could be murder though. Also, I'm sure toxicology reports will become available in weeks to come.

    Whatever really happened, a family lost their beloved daughter, and that's tragic.


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/15/us-safrica-pistorius-shooting-idUSBRE91E09620130215
  2. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    I can't help thinking that if this were due to any kind of accident, the press would be full of statements by Pistorius' publicist, lawyers, family and federation explaining how it was all a tragic misunderstanding. Their silence speaks volumes. :(
  3. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    So sad that women are being killed by their significant others.

    I saw this morning on MSNBC that he is being charged with premeditated murder, with a clip from the courtroom where he buried his face in his hands, crying.

    It's not clear from the LA Times article (I have not read others) if Pistorius was in the bathroom and heard footsteps outside when he shot her. In that case it could have been a case of mistaken identity (if she did not announce it was her). That's how I am imagining the scene.
  4. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't sound ANYTHING like -premeditated- murder. The police have to have some evidence that shows he planned to do this if that is the crime they are charging him with. Based on the fact they are calling it premeditated, it just does not look good for him...


    If it really was accidental, I just cannot imagine how he must be feeling right now. Not because of the charges he faces, but because of what he did.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  5. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Just because it was premeditated doesn't mean it went according to plan. Pure speculation here, but what if she barricaded herself in the bathroom because he was coming after her with the gun?

    Anyway, according to another AP article, he has now released a statement and plans to fight the charges:
  6. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I think this is what most people assumed happened. I think Vash01 was suggesting that HE may have been the one in the bathroom (hiding from an intruder?) and shot through the door without knowing who he was shooting. Oddly, I haven't found a single article that says who was on which side of the door- and it seems to be a pretty huge piece of information.
  7. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Yes more like a domestic incident gone wrong. Maybe drugs were a factor as well?
  8. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that Pistorius is guilty. I mean, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
  9. millyskate

    millyskate Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I read an article on the train that said she was inside. (Evening Standard I think) . That would support the premeditated murder charge.
  10. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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    Oh, I dunno.

    Let's say that I wanted to kill my husband. In the middle of the night, I go into the bathroom and shut the door. Then I call for help--"I've fallen and I can't get up!" My husband comes to help me. I shoot him through the door.

    I then tell the police that I was in the bathroom, taking care of business, and I heard someone creeping down the hall. I called out my husband's name several times, but there was no answer, When I heard the steps stop outside the door, I panicked and shot blindly. Why oh why didn't he answer when I called? And yes, I do carry a gun to the bathroom with me in the middle of the night. Everyone will tell you that I am paranoid and afraid of break-ins, and that I always have my gun with me.

    I just might get away with that, too, if indeed I had that reputation and no one was around to dispute my story.

    I do think it's far more likely that she was trying to barricade herself in the bathroom. According to reports, there are witnesses who heard them shouting just before the shooting. I would think that what the witnesses heard them shouting would be more indicative of whether the intruder story was going to hold up or not than who was one what side of the door. If he was shouting, "Who's there? Identify yourself! I have a gun!" that's one thing. If he was shouting "I'm going to kill you, you @#$(*&#($&#$(&!" then that's another. And if she was shouting anything at all, I don't think he will be able to argue that he didn't know it was her.
    Rex and (deleted member) like this.
  11. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Every other guy who offs his old lady uses the "intruder" defense, and many a Dateline episode is devoted to their stories crumbling, one by one.
  12. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    I long ago (30 years) heard of a story where a woman shot her husband dead. He had come home, drunk, and was literally crawling up the stairs, she said "who's there," and with either no answer or unintelligible mumbling, boom shot in the direction of the sounds. That's probably when I decided to definitely never have a handgun in the house.
  13. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

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  14. Gazpacho

    Gazpacho Well-Known Member

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    How does South Africa define "premeditated murder"?

    I haven't heard a single shred of evidence in favor of the intruder theory. Not saying that it's not true, as there's a ton of evidence we haven't heard, but so far nothing has come out to support it. I read that this neighborhood has many security cameras, and if she was shot just after entering, I imagine that the police wouldn't have dismissed the theory so quickly.

    Then why shoot four times? Isn't one shot enough to send the message to a thief that they better get their ass out of there ASAP?

    Personally, regardless of his culpability in this case, I find Pistorius a pretty pathetic symbol of the spirit of the Olympics considering his piss poor sportsmanship when he didn't win gold in the 200 at the Paralympics.

    How awful for Reeva :( I read that she wasn't just a beautiful model but also had a law degree and did advocacy work for females who have been raped.

    I know it's bad taste, but I found this pretty :lol:
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  15. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

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    If she barricaded herself in the bathroom, she probably was either terrified or trying to get away and give him some space. Either way for him to shoot her through the door shows a level of anger and aggression that sure turned him from hero to zero.
  16. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

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  17. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    It was yesterday morning when it was said by the person who thought it up. Now it's just stale. :yawn:
  18. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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    I don't think anyone really believes the "thought she was an intruder" argument and I doubt if anyone ever did beyond a few minutes of giving him the benefit of the doubt. I don't even know if that is HIS story; I am getting the impression that it was speculation in the media and not any kind of statement that was made.
  19. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, because when I think of what's fresh and relevant, I think of the guy who channels Ernie from My Three Sons.
  20. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link. Many people don't know this jerkwad was in the Olympics and the Paralympics last year. Seems like he wanted it both ways, and got it.

    In rapid succession, Pistorius and Lance Armstrong have ruined their "physically-challenged athlete becomes a role model" narratives. Hopefully, surfer Bethany Hamilton doesn't come out as a tweaker next month.
  21. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    You're very environmentally friendly with all the recycling you're doing in this thread. ;)
  22. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Likewise, I am forever impressed at your ability to reuse your cranky-old-alkie routine.
  23. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Are you suggesting that doping and murdering a woman are comparable offenses? :rolleyes:

    I'll qualify this by noting that even if Pistorius is a jerk with a nasty past, his guilt has not been proven in court.
    Wiery and (deleted member) like this.
  24. Gazpacho

    Gazpacho Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for heckles, but my interpretation of their comment is that our society makes heroes out of athletes. That hero persona is based on their athletic accomplishments, in this case their athletic accomplishments in the face of enormous physical challenges. Our society assumes that heroism athletically equates to goodness in a non-athletic context, and the athletes often actively fuel that assumption. But that assumption can be unwarranted.

    I didn't see the comment as equating murder and doping, not in the least.
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  25. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what heckles was getting at, but there have been a number of cases of athletes charged and sometimes convicted of violent crimes, so I don't see why Armstrong was the most relevant comparison. Other than recency and the involvement of high-profile athletes, the two cases have little in common. It goes without saying that there's quite a difference between someone whose fall from grace was due to doping - a sports-related offense - and someone who likely committed murder.
  26. Gazpacho

    Gazpacho Well-Known Member

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    It's foremost the recency of it. The other similarity is that these were both athletes exalted for their overcoming of physical challenges, and society extended their ability to overcome their physical challenges into assumptions about their goodness as people. The athletes themselves parlayed that perception into fame, fortune, and influence. These two were held up as role models and inspirations in ways that other elite athletes have not been.

    The offenses are naturally not comparable, but the shattering of their good-guy perception has similarities. Another way to put it is that the cases are very dissimilar in their severity and victimization of others, but they are similar in making society question some of its tendencies.

    Sort of switching topics--A lady posted a comment at the bottom of a news article that I found worth repeating. Her child also has two prosthetic legs. Until they saw Oscar Pistorius at the Olympics, they were ashamed and felt hopeless. But Oscar Pistorius, even though they had never met him, gave the child the confidence to stand up for themselves to bullies, push themselves to try new physical activities, and re-evaluate what they felt was possible for themselves. Children like these are among society's most vulnerable, and they need a role model like Oscar Pistorius. (To a lesser extent, Lance Armstrong had this effect among some cancer survivors who were physically traumatized by the disease and the side effects of the treatment--another similarity to the Pistorius case.)

    This mother is struggling with how to break the news to the child. The child is 5 or 6 years old and may not understand the concept of murder or even death.

    I'm not a parent, so I ask the parents on this board--what would you do?
  27. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Armstrong was cited as a recent example of "physically-challenged athlete becomes a role model" narrative. You're right that the sports world in general has plenty of cretins.
  28. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

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  29. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Well I guess he just happened to walk down the corridor holding a loaded gun as one does in South Africa, given the crime rate, and then he tripped and whilst he was falling down, he accidentally fired the gun four times. That's totally plausible.
  30. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I am not a parent either, but my opinion is that she does not need to tell him anything right now. After he grows up enough to understand, she can explain that a person can be good in someways and not in other, and to follow only the good in him. Right now he has no concept of death/murder/bullets, etc.- that is assuming he does not hear it from other children. That could complicate matters and in that case the mother can explain the same thing.
  31. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    It can happen if you believe you are at risk, and in a place with a high crime rate, I can see how someone would believe that. Take a look at this case, for instance - the guy fired three shots, thinking home invaders were threatening him and his daughter. He was tragically wrong.

    That's not to say this is what happened in this case, of course, and I don't get the firing through a door thing, either.

    BTW, the link you posted requires login to view anything past the first paragraph.
  32. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Reports of arguing prior to the shooting are in conflict with the burglary defense. And again, shooting through a door, presumably a bathroom door are also hard to reconcile with that. Was she inside the bathroom?
  33. twinsissv

    twinsissv New Member

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    There must have been so many children in need of prostheses who were counting on his foundation for help. How sad for them. :(
  34. equatorial

    equatorial New Member

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    According to the latest reports, the victim was wearing a night gown, she also had suffered a head injury prior to her death, and a blooded cricket bat was discovered at the scene.
  35. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Article

    This is chilling:

    I wonder why the authorities are going after the premeditated murder charge instead of something like involuntary manslaughter, for example. I think it was a crime of passion that happened in an instance of rage and not something that he had planned to do, since early reports said that a panicked Pistorius tried to revive Steenkamp after the shooting. If it was planned then I think he would have probably killed himself also.

    It's such a sad story. Two young lives with bright futures and their families are completely ruined.

    I personally would never date someone with a gun in his house, especially if the person has shown any type of temper. People are just too darn quick to grab that gun as a mean to resolve problem.
  36. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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  37. millyskate

    millyskate Well-Known Member

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    It truly is a horrible crime. I do wonder if drugs were involved.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  38. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, he sure seems guilty as hell if all this is true. He shot her first, in plain sight, after allegedly hitting her with a cricket bat. Then she runs into the bathroom and he shoots through a door 3 times and kills her. There is no way that was an accident. What a monster.
  39. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Is there statistical data that suggests that most premeditated murders also involve suicide?
  40. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    ^^ I was only guessing for someone in Pistorius's position. If he had planned the murder then he must have had also thought about the consequence of its aftermath; He's only 26 and has looks, fame, money, popularity, etc. It's going to be hell giving all of that up for a lifetime in prison. So if the murder was premeditated, I think someone like him would've chosen suicide over going to prison.