Oscar Pistorius on murder charge

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by skatefan, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    No, it's still homicide even if it's accidental, but murder requires intent.

    All murders are homicides, but not all homicides are murders.

    At least in English. I don't know how the words are used in Portuguese.
     
  2. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    Would it have been better if she were ugly?
     
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  3. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    If he had a semiautomatic weapon shooting four times might still be mistaken identity intruder situation.
     
  4. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    My first thought too. We don't have a gun at home, but we have a big heavy flashlight by the bed and a crowbar in the closet. When I come home from work/gym at 2am (which I sometimes do), my fiance never has either in his hands thinking I'm an intruder.

    In the same vein, it also could be argued that smaller women are justified in shooting first, asking later...
     
  5. Gazpacho

    Gazpacho Well-Known Member

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    Was she driving an unfamiliar car? That's the only way I would find the mistaken intruder theory plausible. Each car has a sound, and a familiar car pulling into the driveway sounds different than an unfamiliar car.

    I imagine that a gated community with high profile residents would have security cameras that could provide more information.
     
  6. sequins

    sequins Active Member

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    I admit I was stunned when I heard this today. I certainly never would've guessed. Proof once again that you never truly no someone especially when you only no them through the media and the image they present. Interestingly enough tonight on a sports radio station they had a writer from Sports Illustrated that followed him and they asked him if he was surprised. He said he wasn't surprised that something happened but surprised that it ended up being a murder charge. He said Pistorious lived fast and that he was aware he needed to make changes but that no one around him ever seemed to want to intervene. He stated that there had been numerous incidents(public drunkeness, calls to police for domestic 'incidents', etc) but that you really couldn't report on them because you were looked down on. Pistorious was a hero, polite to the media, and inspiration and to do anything to taint that was frowned upon. He then spoke to how it should be the responsibility of the media to report on the facts no matter what because maybe in some way it could've helped. It's just so sad for the poor womans family. She seemed so hopeful and lovely and now she's gone and Oscar Pistorious will forever be remembered as a murderer instead of everything else good that he use to be.
     
  7. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    Manslaughter, perhaps? Or does South Africa now have that legal category?
     
  8. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    Very sad news:(
    My thoughts are with her family and friends.
     
  9. jl

    jl Well-Known Member

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    It's a tragedy that this happened, though it's strange that in all the statements regarding domestic abuse, more attention was initially paid to people carrying weapons than the very high rate of domestic violence in South Africa. I haven't done anything in this field for a few years, but when I was working with an NGO in Ghana we did review the substantive differences in domestic violence legislation between Ghana and South Africa.

    South Africa has been quite aggressive in its DV legislation to try and give a public forum for this problem, but it was spurred into this because the rate of actual physical, economic or emotional violence was thought to be very high. At a forum I attended in Ghana, a spokesperson from a pan-African women's rights NGO had estimated South Africa to have the highest rate of domestic violence on the continent, though they also noted this may be due to a higher rate of documented/reported cases as opposed to countries with fewer resources.

    Some have theorized that because of South Africa's high rate of crime and violence, that translates into a high rate of gender-based and domestic violence. There may be some links there, but regardless, I think the big culprit is the overall difficulty that South African women face in bringing forth charges of DV in spite of legislative efforts. Then again, such legislative efforts have been both encouraged and frustrated by the ANC at various turns.

    A few articles/sites for reference include:

    http://www.genderlinks.org.za/artic...ce-must-be-included-in-crime-stats-2011-09-13

    http://www.womeninaction.co.za/social-affairs/statistics-on-domestic-violence-in-south-africa/

    My condolences to Reeva Steenkamp's family.
     
  10. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    Pistorious may become something of a negative poster child for domestic violence in South Africa, given the timing.

    Pistorius appeared in court in Pretoria Friday morning, which coincided with "Black Friday," a day when people were being urged to wear black to protest rapes and violence against women.

    South Africa has one of the highest rates of gun homicides, with killings of women by intimate partners the leading cause of female homicide in the country. Some 57% of female homicide victims were killed by their partners in 2009, according to a report last year by the Medical Research Council, a rate of 5.7% per 100,000. One-third of female homicides were committed by partners with a history of prior violence against their partners, according to the report.

    He's being charged with premeditated murder.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/world/w...nner-pistorius-weeps-20130215,0,1295646.story
     
  11. Wiery

    Wiery Well-Known Member

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    Reuters reports that Pistorius shot Reeva four times through the bathroom door. I wonder if she was in the bathroom, or he was in the bathroom; I haven't been able to find out the exact positioning. If she was barricaded inside the bathroom door; this scenario would seem to point towards murder. However if he was inside the bathroom, the exact situation seems a bit more unclear; still could be murder though. Also, I'm sure toxicology reports will become available in weeks to come.

    Whatever really happened, a family lost their beloved daughter, and that's tragic.


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/15/us-safrica-pistorius-shooting-idUSBRE91E09620130215
     
  12. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    I can't help thinking that if this were due to any kind of accident, the press would be full of statements by Pistorius' publicist, lawyers, family and federation explaining how it was all a tragic misunderstanding. Their silence speaks volumes. :(
     
  13. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    So sad that women are being killed by their significant others.

    I saw this morning on MSNBC that he is being charged with premeditated murder, with a clip from the courtroom where he buried his face in his hands, crying.

    It's not clear from the LA Times article (I have not read others) if Pistorius was in the bathroom and heard footsteps outside when he shot her. In that case it could have been a case of mistaken identity (if she did not announce it was her). That's how I am imagining the scene.
     
  14. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't sound ANYTHING like -premeditated- murder. The police have to have some evidence that shows he planned to do this if that is the crime they are charging him with. Based on the fact they are calling it premeditated, it just does not look good for him...


    If it really was accidental, I just cannot imagine how he must be feeling right now. Not because of the charges he faces, but because of what he did.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  15. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Just because it was premeditated doesn't mean it went according to plan. Pure speculation here, but what if she barricaded herself in the bathroom because he was coming after her with the gun?

    Anyway, according to another AP article, he has now released a statement and plans to fight the charges:
     
  16. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I think this is what most people assumed happened. I think Vash01 was suggesting that HE may have been the one in the bathroom (hiding from an intruder?) and shot through the door without knowing who he was shooting. Oddly, I haven't found a single article that says who was on which side of the door- and it seems to be a pretty huge piece of information.
     
  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Yes more like a domestic incident gone wrong. Maybe drugs were a factor as well?
     
  18. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that Pistorius is guilty. I mean, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
     
  19. millyskate

    millyskate Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I read an article on the train that said she was inside. (Evening Standard I think) . That would support the premeditated murder charge.
     
  20. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    Oh, I dunno.

    Let's say that I wanted to kill my husband. In the middle of the night, I go into the bathroom and shut the door. Then I call for help--"I've fallen and I can't get up!" My husband comes to help me. I shoot him through the door.

    I then tell the police that I was in the bathroom, taking care of business, and I heard someone creeping down the hall. I called out my husband's name several times, but there was no answer, When I heard the steps stop outside the door, I panicked and shot blindly. Why oh why didn't he answer when I called? And yes, I do carry a gun to the bathroom with me in the middle of the night. Everyone will tell you that I am paranoid and afraid of break-ins, and that I always have my gun with me.

    I just might get away with that, too, if indeed I had that reputation and no one was around to dispute my story.

    I do think it's far more likely that she was trying to barricade herself in the bathroom. According to reports, there are witnesses who heard them shouting just before the shooting. I would think that what the witnesses heard them shouting would be more indicative of whether the intruder story was going to hold up or not than who was one what side of the door. If he was shouting, "Who's there? Identify yourself! I have a gun!" that's one thing. If he was shouting "I'm going to kill you, you @#$(*&#($&#$(&!" then that's another. And if she was shouting anything at all, I don't think he will be able to argue that he didn't know it was her.
     
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  21. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Every other guy who offs his old lady uses the "intruder" defense, and many a Dateline episode is devoted to their stories crumbling, one by one.
     
  22. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    I long ago (30 years) heard of a story where a woman shot her husband dead. He had come home, drunk, and was literally crawling up the stairs, she said "who's there," and with either no answer or unintelligible mumbling, boom shot in the direction of the sounds. That's probably when I decided to definitely never have a handgun in the house.
     
  23. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

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  24. Gazpacho

    Gazpacho Well-Known Member

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    How does South Africa define "premeditated murder"?

    I haven't heard a single shred of evidence in favor of the intruder theory. Not saying that it's not true, as there's a ton of evidence we haven't heard, but so far nothing has come out to support it. I read that this neighborhood has many security cameras, and if she was shot just after entering, I imagine that the police wouldn't have dismissed the theory so quickly.

    Then why shoot four times? Isn't one shot enough to send the message to a thief that they better get their ass out of there ASAP?

    Personally, regardless of his culpability in this case, I find Pistorius a pretty pathetic symbol of the spirit of the Olympics considering his piss poor sportsmanship when he didn't win gold in the 200 at the Paralympics.

    How awful for Reeva :( I read that she wasn't just a beautiful model but also had a law degree and did advocacy work for females who have been raped.

    I know it's bad taste, but I found this pretty :lol:
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  25. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

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    If she barricaded herself in the bathroom, she probably was either terrified or trying to get away and give him some space. Either way for him to shoot her through the door shows a level of anger and aggression that sure turned him from hero to zero.
     
  26. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

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  27. allezfred

    allezfred Hideous Admin Staff Member

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    It was yesterday morning when it was said by the person who thought it up. Now it's just stale. :yawn:
     
  28. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    I don't think anyone really believes the "thought she was an intruder" argument and I doubt if anyone ever did beyond a few minutes of giving him the benefit of the doubt. I don't even know if that is HIS story; I am getting the impression that it was speculation in the media and not any kind of statement that was made.
     
  29. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, because when I think of what's fresh and relevant, I think of the guy who channels Ernie from My Three Sons.
     
  30. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link. Many people don't know this jerkwad was in the Olympics and the Paralympics last year. Seems like he wanted it both ways, and got it.

    In rapid succession, Pistorius and Lance Armstrong have ruined their "physically-challenged athlete becomes a role model" narratives. Hopefully, surfer Bethany Hamilton doesn't come out as a tweaker next month.