Oscar Pistorius on murder charge

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by skatefan, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    With the police case being so weak, I think they should bail him. For a huge amount of money though. He can afford it.

    I guess the judge is probably scared that he's gonna get eaten by the media/mob for 'giving special treatment to a celebrity' though.
     
  2. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    FWIW, Jeffrey Toobin on CNN just said that no matter what, he will get some jail time because South African law does not allow someone to blindly shoot someone else through a closed door.
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Of course. But there's a big difference between homicide and murder.
     
  4. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    He was abusing drugs.
     
  5. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

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    This judge has been rambling on forever and still has not given his decision.
     
  6. Norlite

    Norlite Well-Known Member

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    Indeed.

    I was afraid to go get a coffee from the kitchen when he started talking for fear I would miss his ruling live.

    I could have taken a shower, done my makeup, gotten dressed and went to get my groceries and come back and still not missed it.
     
  7. Lorac

    Lorac Well-Known Member

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    So Pistorius has got bail - the judge summed up as if it was a trial IMHO - he seemed to go on forever - though I guess he needed to do that to justify his final decision. I listened to it all and kept switching my mind as to whether he was going to allow bail as he made many points that supported both the defense and the prosecution. The initial investigating officer's actions did not help the prosecution IMHO and it seemed that the prosecution were probably too quick to bring the charges and claim Pistorius is a huge flight risk. As the judge said this is a hugely circumstational case - with Oscar being the only person alive who knew exactly what happened - so the prosecution needed to really have hard facts that Pistorius killed intentionally.

    Anyway I assume Pistorius will now go off into seclusion and most certainly not head back to the track in a public manner as that would be too arrogant and beggar belief. Though it was never him or his family saying he would get back to training - just a coach.

    So now we have the trial to look forwards to - but that isn't going to be for a while yet though I suspect it will be in the South African press from now until then.
     
  8. Norlite

    Norlite Well-Known Member

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    90 minutes that guy rambled on.
     
  9. Lorac

    Lorac Well-Known Member

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    It felt much longer :eek:
     
  10. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    You know, if these are the conditions that people with disabilities face in South African jails, then it's a good thing that a person whose guilt has not yet been proven will not have to go there. It sounds appalling - even if someone is guilty, and certainly when it's a prisoner awaiting trial.
     
  11. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I'm really confused by SA procedures. (Or maybe I don't know my own countries very well.)

    Does the guilt of the person have -anything- to do with whether or not they get bail? I thought it was only if they were a flight risk? Or does the judge also weigh where he thinks the verdict will be placed to determine if bail is granted? Because it seemed like this hearing was entirely about the presumed guilt of Pistorius, and not whether he was likely to leave the country.
     
  12. DFJ

    DFJ Well-Known Member

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    I listened to this rambling magistrate go on and on...likes the sound of his own voice.
     
  13. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    They talked about this on CNN. It was the first time I felt really sorry for Pistorius.
     
  14. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    I think whether or not they are a threat to society or will try to tamper with witnesses also comes into play.
     
  15. morqet

    morqet Well-Known Member

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    I think it was more about determining what exactly he was charged with which then affects the terms of his bail - the prosection wanted him to be charged with a schedule 6 offence (premeditated murder), which automatically means he can't be granted bail. It seems they had to show in the hearing that there were valid reasons for pushing for a charge of that magnitude & the defence had to counter that it was culpable homicide or whatever the equivalent is in South Africa, which is why we've already heard so much about the case instead of just the question of flight risk & potential to reoffend whilst on bail.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  16. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    the decision is more a result of a pressure killer
    I stand by pistorius being guilty
     
  17. Lorac

    Lorac Well-Known Member

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    But guilt of what - pre-meditated murder or accidental murder (or whatever the lesser charge is in SA)? Yes he did kill her - we all acknowledge that - but did he mean to and did he plan it? That is what the prosecution is going to try to prove. I suspect they will lower that expectation and try to get him on a lesser murder charge now.

    And who pressured who? The presiding judge went into excrutiating detail why he decided to allow bail and to be honest I understand why he gave it in the end - and if you listen to the judge he could have gone either way as to the bail application - I changed ny mind several times whilst listening to him. But the conditions are steep - the 1M Rand is exceedingly high by all accounts as is the not drinking aspect as it doesn't appear Oscar was under the influence when he shot Reeva. Still it's not as if he has been found innocent - just that he doesn't have to be locked away before the trial.
     
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  18. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    When people panic, they are not rational. They don't go through this thought process. Self preservation is not self-absorbed ego. What happened was tragic, and unless there is more information- accepted/proven in the court of law- I am not going to make a judgment on Pistorius.
     
  19. heckles

    heckles Banned Member

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    Interesting that a South African story has such legs in the US.
     
  20. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

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    People love a train wreck.
     
  21. heckles

    heckles Banned Member

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    I'd be interested in what drives the international fascination in this case, and I'm not asking that in a pseudo-aloof, "I don't care about this story so you shouldn't either" way.
     
  22. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    I think part of it, and this is going to sound really shallow in the face of someone losing their life and another potentially living with the guilt of a horrible mistake for the rest of their life, is that this is one of those cases that sounds like a murder mystery novel or a tv crime drama. It has the elements - the beautiful victim, the famous suspect, the multitude of clues and potential scenarios, the importance of the floorplan, the differing accounts of what happened, the bumbling detectives, and the opportunity for us to try and figure out the answer to the puzzle. It's Lindbergh, JonBenet, Jeffrey MacDonald, even going back to Constance Kent in the 1800s.

    And given that short of Oscar confessing there will always be some question as to whether he really meant to do it or not, I think this one is likely to be debated for some time - there will no doubt be books written, and before long websites like this.
     
  23. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he was an Olympian, and a hugely highly profiled one. We heard about Pistorius ALL the time leading up to and during the Olympics. I fully expected to hear updates on his career for years (didn't expect this! That's for sure.) So to some extent- it was a person that the US news was already pretty fascinated with. A freaking murder case was of course going to get coverage.


    (I wonder how long until he goes to trial. That article about the poor conditions for those who don't get bail said the guy had been waiting 2 years for a trial- and living with people with drug resistant TB! That shouldn't be allowed under Human Rights law! Purposefully exposing people to contagious diseases.) Because this is a 'celebrity' I bet it doesn't take 2 years to get a trial.
     
  24. Cruella

    Cruella New Member

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    Ummm... :lol:
     
  25. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    From that angle, it's OJ all over again. The star athlete, the beautiful victim, the public trial.

    But I didn't follow OJ at all - for me it's about the puzzle.
     
  26. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I think it is very similar to OJ. I was too young to follow OJ, but I remember we got pulled from gym class to watch the verdict. We were told it was a 'defining moment in history'. I remember thinking that was kind of silly... but the school administration made sure that every student watched it on TV for 15 minutes that day.
     
  27. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    In addition to what was already said, we seem to have a thing for blond female crime victims. Jon Benet, Natalie Holloway, Nicole Simpson, Elizabeth Smart. And then I just discovered Princess Diana's funeral was the most watched tv event EVER. I'm sure brunettes get killed but fewer of them show up in the news. Maybe we can't believe anyone would ever kill an attractive blond.
     
  28. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    snoopy you have a point - in two of the cases I mentioned above, the victims were also blonde - Jeffrey MacDonald's wife and children, and the Lindbergh baby. Sharon Tate would be another.
     
  29. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Another one that comes to mind - not blonde! - is Lizzie Borden. Not famous and no beautiful victims, but another case that was full of clues, in a classic contained environment where the floorplan once again came into play, the importance of the timeline and witnesses, the potential motives. At the time the gruesomeness and unlikely murderer made headlines, but I believe it has endured because it's another one that arm chair detectives can and do continue to study and debate.
     
  30. heckles

    heckles Banned Member

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    Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped and repeatedly raped by a Mormon polygamist in Salt Lake City, and later rescued. She was not murdered (not that you said she was). You're right, definitely a high-profile criminal case involving a blond female. I think some of the interest in that and the Jaycee Dugard cases was that the victims were found long after their kidnappings. The general assumption most people had before then was that a kidnapped person who isn't found within a few weeks won't ever be found alive.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013