Oscar Pistorius on murder charge

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by skatefan, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    I can't imagine a country not extraditing a murderer in a case like this where no politics are involved.

    But his situation is very different from most other people accused of murder. He's a elite level competitive athlete. Competing at international events is how he earns his living.
  2. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,072
    Could be. Or maybe he wants to go grab his favorite pair of shoes.
  3. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    17,444
    He could still find a place to live that won't send him back. Others have done it.
  4. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    17,444
    Here's a long but very interesting background article on Oscar from a few days ago. Details a life of privilege and special treatment, including being allowed to compete in the 400m in London even though he had not qualified, leaving another SA athlete who had at home. Also many previous incidents of favourable treatment by law enforcement officials, as well as lots of reason to think there are serious emotional issues there.
  5. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    42,673
    Even though I don't think he should have been allowed to run, he most certainly did qualify as he "ran" under the A standard for qualifying in July 2011. Up to three athletes from each country who have the A standard are allowed compete at the Olympics. Pistorius was the only South African entered in the 400m in London so either the other runner was not selected or he did not have the A standard.

    And the athlete named Simon Magakwe isn't even a 400m runner. :confused:
  6. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,072
    Is South Africa the country with higher country standards though? I remember there being a fuss some Olympics where a country left qualified athletes at home because they didn't meet internal standards. IIRC, SA requires runners to meet two A standards. That may have been how Pistorius didn't qualify. I have no idea if this is the case. Though it is funny that the named runner doesn't run the event (I did find some articles about him being left off the team despite meeting the A standard, but nothing mentioned Oscar.)
  7. Desperado

    Desperado Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2002
    Messages:
    561
    Any body read the Vanity Fair article? http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/06/oscar-pistorius-murder

    I thought a lot of the things the article says were later on denied, (ex. she was shot through her shorts, there was a bloody bat, etc.) and things I didn't know (ex. she had stayed with him for three days, Pistorius never tried to talk to Reeva's parents) but I doubt they would've put it in due to the risk of later being sued. The portrait they paint is of an out-of-control aggressive jerk but a Slate blogger is not convinced:

    A New Vanity Fair Story Shows that Oscar Pistorius Is a Jerk. But Is He a Murderer?
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/05/15/hilton_botha_reeva_steenkamp_new_vanity_fair_story_shows_that_oscar_pistorius.html
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
  9. Gazpacho

    Gazpacho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,330
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    If he says no, than they can have 24-hour fluff, I guess. :p
  11. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    The judge declared that all of the audio can get broadcast but only parts of the video. :p
  12. Yehudi

    Yehudi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2001
    Messages:
    2,062
    No comments yet, even after Pistorius threw up?
  13. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    42,673
    I think most people are just as sick of the trial as he is.
  14. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,345
    I cant remember any defendant going through so much physical drama.
  15. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,103
    Eh, I suppose that's to his credit. Better than OJ Simpson's smugness throughout his trial.
  16. kylet3

    kylet3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,265
    And what about the physical drama that Reeva went through the night Pistorius shot her? What about all the physical drama her family has gone through in the meantime with all this dragging out before the world media? I'm not saying you're showing him sympathy but if there is any concern to be shown regarding this, it's for the victim and her family.
  17. DFJ

    DFJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2002
    Messages:
    4,836
    I didn't read caseyedwards' post as anything but pointing out that his physical display is something he/she hasn't seen before (correct me if I'm wrong casey).
  18. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,345
    I thought of all those smug non responsive defendants that get controversy and this being opposite of that.

    The below is right. Just a comment on his crying and vomiting and hunching over which is rare.

    You are correct.
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    The perpetrator is also a victim.
  20. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    20,740
    This line of thinking has never sat well with me. Just because a person says one sympathetic thing towards the ACCUSED doesn't mean they feel no sympathy for the victim or their family. People act like we have to choose. "If there is ANY concern....its for the victim and her family." How about I have enough concern for ALL OF THEM? Is that such a ridiculous concept?
    Gazpacho and (deleted member) like this.
  21. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    38,260
    I think most people take a break and/or leave the courtroom.

    He's been asked several times if he would like to take a break and always refuses.

    But yeah, very unusual.
  22. Xela M

    Xela M New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    684
    Ahhh, thanks Prancer for directing me to this thread! I must admit I have a weak spot for Oscar. He is (or was) such a hero for so many that it's incredibly sad that he manged to throw his life away in a moment of madness. Even if he gets acquitted, his life - as he knew it - is over. He will suffer a similar fate to O.J. (even if he doesn't commit armed robbery). All his sponsorship deals will stop. People will always wonder if he didn't murder her after all.
  23. bek

    bek Guest

    He killed this girl, with a gun he wasn't allowed to have. The courts can decide if it was an accidental death or not, but it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't suppose to have a gun in the first place. And I think deserves jail time for having the illegal gun, and shooting the girl with the illegal gun.

    And I find the it was an accident thing not necessarily believable. He's also getting preferential treatment from the courts. Who should be allowed to leave the country when on trial for murder! No one.
  24. Xela M

    Xela M New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    684
    Although I must admit the intruder hiding in the toilet cubicle story sounds improbable, why on earth would he deliberately kill her? There is no motive and the "jealous" texts don't explain it either because out of 1700 text between them, only 4 indicated any kind of arguments and all couples argue at one point or another.
  25. bek

    bek Guest

    All couples don't end up with one couple shooting the other.
  26. Muffin

    Muffin New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    451
    A few statistics:
    - 4,000 women are killed every year by domestic violence.
    - 40% of women killed worldwide are killed by their partner
    Why do men kill their wives & girlfriends? I don't know, but I know that it's very common, and it's a hell of a lot more believable than the ridiculous story he told in court.
    Desperado and (deleted member) like this.
  27. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    28,122
    All couples fight, but in how many couples does one person state they are afraid of the other?
  28. Xela M

    Xela M New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    684
    That's kind of my point. There is no indication from their text messages that there was anything wrong.

    But he was the famous, rich, handsome athlete who had many women after him, so it wasn't an ordinary relationship. Plus, I have seen messages from people who claim to have known the couple who claim that it was, in fact, Reeva who was the jealous and possessive one whereas he was cheating on her with a number of other women.

    It just seems odd. His previous girlfriend quite publicly cheated on him whilst he was at the London Olympics and he didn't shoot her - he just dumped her. Also, if there really was an argument between him and Reeva that night, wouldn't she have called or texted someone about it?

    I guess, but that was taken out of context. She said something like she was sometimes scared of his temper. It didn't really indicate that he had ever been abusive towards her.
  29. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    38,260
    You do realize that some people cheat on their SOs but still get jealous and/or angry? And that one relationship is not necessarily a good predictor for another?

    And that people cheat on their famous, rich, beautiful SOs?

    And that people can get into fights that blow up out of nowhere?

    And that a lot of people get into fights without texting their friends halfway through?

    Maybe she was planning to and he shot her first; her cell phone was in the bathroom, wasn't it? That seems really odd to me; if you just have to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, do you take your phone with you? But there are probably people who do and Reeva may have been one of them.
  30. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    I am not disputing any of that.
  31. Guinevere

    Guinevere New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    1,438
    I think at the minimum he is definitely guilty of at least manslaughter or SA's equivalent. He violated the basic rules of gun ownership and acted in a reckless manner. I read that even by SA's self defense laws what he did was not considered legal.

    I think the prosecution (to me at least) has shown he is reckless and quick to temper and then acts out. Shooting a gun out the sunroof in anger is a prime example of that. A bullet going straight up can kill someone just as easily as shooting them directly. He seems to shoot guns rashly and in anger.
  32. bek

    bek Guest

    This relationship ended with him shooting and killing her. Its natural to ask some questions about the relationship. The police say in the previous relationship there was at least one domestic violence call-on HIM. And I think some mental health issues on HIM.

    He also has a history of violent behavior with guns when he's angry. See the sun gun roof incident.

    Really why would an intruder look themselves in the bathroom? And if the intruder is looking themselves in the bathroom wouldn't the prudent thing be to cool for help, or wait to them come and then shoot, when you see who it is. In case it is you know your girlfriend-whose there in the house with you?

    She didn't shoot and kill him, so what if she'd get a little jealous. SHE is not a on trial here, and there's nothing even in his stupid defense, that indicates she did anything to deserve this like threaten his person.

    I would imagine that couples with domestic violence are actually less likely to have people texting friends saying we were arguing. Part of what happens is the abusive partner tries to separate the victim from loved ones.

    At the very least what he did was manslaughter. Its one thing to shoot your significant other when there's actually documented intruder and the gun rickashays. But this guy basically went guns and blazing, and was shooting around without even looking or verifying.

    So what if he had lots of money and was cheating on her. That doesn't stop him from being a possessive jerk. In fact it suggests a sense of entitlement..

    My issue here is his story doesn't pass the smell test, and even if his story was correct, he still should face time, a lot of time for doing this. What if there had been a child in that house?

    In fact a part of me would argue and I don't know how legal I'm being that what he did in some was premediated or at least second degree murder much worse than a manslaughter because he knew there were people legitimately in his house and didn't bother to make sure said person was a threat, he just shot to kill.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2014
  33. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
  34. puglover

    puglover Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    628
    A very good article - thanks Ziggy. This case kind of reminds me of the Casey Anthony case in some ways. Absolute, indisputable proof may be hard to come by - but it seems a huge stretch to imagine anyone of sound mind shooting into a locked bathroom door without making sure that the other person they know to be in the house is not the one in the bathroom. If this is a small toilet affair it would seem obvious that this is at most one person, not a group of thugs, and so many more obvious choices were available such as shooting into the ceiling as a warning or calling the police, at the very least calling out to her to ascertain where she is. I think his previous behaviour with guns is also interesting and telling.
  35. Peaches LaTour

    Peaches LaTour New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,209
    Yes, this is an excellent article. Indeed, why did he fire four shots? Why not just a warning shot? And all his hysteria in the court room.....seems contrived to me.
  36. bek

    bek Guest

    Everything about this tells me that he meant to kill this poor woman.
  37. Prancer

    Prancer Ray Chill Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    38,260
    I've watched some clips of the prosecution. Gerrie Nels is relentless. I read somewhere else that everyone respects him but hardly anyone likes him, and I believe it.
  38. bek

    bek Guest

    I'm glad this case has an attack dog prosecuting this case.
  39. puglover

    puglover Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    628
    I have a lot of respect for Reeva's mother. From all I have seen and heard, she is conducting herself with calm dignity - while still sitting through all the grizzly details to make sure everyone remembers who the real victim is. I don't think I would have her self control if I was in her shoes.
  40. mrinalini

    mrinalini Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    990
    This guy is creepy, his defense is a laugh, and I hope no one in that courtroom is fooled by his blubbering, Oscar-baiting (hah!) antics.