Oscar Pistorius on murder charge

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by skatefan, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. skatefan

    skatefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    5,080
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  2. skipaway

    skipaway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    7,540
    What a shame and a tragedy for both.

    Alledgedly killed Girlfriend

  3. floskate

    floskate Vacant

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    8,780
    BBC sport just tweeted that bail will be opposed as there were witnesses? Also reports stating that police have alluded to previous domestic disturbances. Wow this is shocking. :(
  4. morqet

    morqet Active Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    942
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ewnreporter?p=s

    Statement from South Afrinca police says they have reports of screaming and shouting earlier in teh evening & they were surprised to hear the reports about him mistaking her for an intruder. They will disclose their reasons for opposing bail this afternoon. This is horrible :(
  5. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    18,000
    I heard this on the radio tonight. Totally bizarre and unexpected.
  6. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    2,010
    When I first read about this the headline only stated "Paralympic athlete" I immediately wondered if it was Pistorius but didn't even want to open it up...
  7. AYS

    AYS Cruder than you thought

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2002
    Messages:
    19,415
  8. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    42,737
    I may now have a concrete reason for disliking Pistorius. Something about him and the way his "sainthood" was propagated really grated.
  9. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    354
    I really wonder who started and why the rumors about his mistaking the girl for a burglar? Not police anyways. And the neighbors heard fighting.
  10. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    17,462
    In a story I read earlier and now can't find, there was reference to the high crime rate in the area and how even in gated communities residents usually have firearms in the house, and how in one recent incident, a man shot his own daughter because he thought she was someone stealing his car.

    I suspect that's the source of confusion, along with perhaps people hoping that it was an accident rather than murder, including:

    But a police spokesperson says otherwise:

    (Quotes from an AP story)
  11. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    354
    I have read Pistorius is a big hero in Australia and maybe that's why they tried to make up all kinds of excuses.
  12. elka_sk8

    elka_sk8 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,056
    Unfortunately, media outlets are so intent on getting a "scoop" that they don't seem to fact check before reporting rumors. The surge in social media and 24 hr news outlets only contributes to this. Remember when the Newtown shooting happened, there were reports that the shooter's mother taught at the school, among other things.
  13. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    452
    I guess you meant South Africa :shuffle:
  14. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    30,143
    this is so shocking :eek:
  15. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    2,010
    You bet... I was just reading an article about this on a portuguese site it had such gems as "... the police charged him with homicide(translated from portuguese so I don't know what the actual accusation was) so the the hypothesis of accidental murder was discarded..." , erm, what exactly do they think would have been the charge had it been an accident? The degree or murder differs but t's still murder even if accidental...

    "... the authorities denied bail for the athlete's release...", as far as I know this only happens after the first court appearance, what really happened was that the police plans to opposed his request for bail.

    Evidently I don't know what happened, but the coverage of this case is absolute crap.
  16. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    11,051
    Are the laws re: self-defense not as stringent in SA as they are in the US? Here, you have to prove you gave them the option to leave before you blow them away, either verbally or by barricading the doors or something (to show you know they're there and that they can leave without consequence. Once they enter your home, thrn all bets are off.

    Shooting someone in the head before asking who they are (especially if they live with you!!!!) is especially rash and stupid. If it's dark and you can't see well, the head is a poor target anyway - you'd go for center mass. If she was shot in the head, he must have been looking at her well enough to recognize her.

    I don't doubt that accidental shootings CAN happen in the "I thought it was an intruder!" way, but it's so, so stupid and preventable on both the perpetrator and the victim.
  17. reckless

    reckless Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,332
    The laws regarding self-defense in the US are different from state-to-state. As we saw from the Trayvon Martin case, the Florida stand-your-ground law is pretty broad in terms of what is allowed to be considered self-defense.
  18. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,076
  19. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    2,010
    Yeah, but shooting someone in the arm only makes sense if a) you're a lousy shot or b) you're trying to stop them from using a weapon or c) you're doing it on purpose to disguise the scene , so shooting arm and then head is what people would do for stopping an intruder with a gun quickly, if you shoot them in the chest they could still shoot you back... at least that's what I've seen in movies. :p

    I agree that it's preventable, but I also imagine that a person who can't walk without prosthetics would enter survival mode much faster than the average Joe and wouldn't even think before acting, of course we don't know enough details about this case but so far it's a feasible scenario. From the accounts I've read of house invasions in South Africa they are much more brutal than in the US, I don't think most people there would ask anything before acting.

    Again, I'm not saying any of this happened, at this point nothing conclusive has been reported. Apparently the police isn't very willing to endorse the mistake scenario so that could be a clue...
  20. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    28,209
    With the mentions of previous domestic disturbances and her being shot 4 times, I have a harr time believing this is a case ot mistaken identity
  21. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    17,462
    More from AP:

    Doesn't sound like another quiet evening in the neighbourhood, disturbed only by an intruder.
  22. jenny12

    jenny12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,550
    I agree, oleada. Being shot four times and the other domestic disturbances seem to point to this being an example of violent behavior escalating. Certainly, we have to wait for all the evidence, but I agree with oleada.

    How unbelievably sad for this woman and her family.
  23. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    9,181
    Did they live together? If you're in bed and you hear a noise and your girlfriend isn't in bed with you, wouldn't you first assume that it was your girlfriend making that noise?
  24. 4rkidz

    4rkidz GPF Barcelona here I come

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2001
    Messages:
    9,184
    I would like to get more information on this.. as from what our news said the assault he was arrested for was because a woman had broken into his apt and he forced her out and a piece of wood fell on her from the door but the charges were dropped? I think the fact that there was yelling and screaming (apparently) would suggest that it wasn't an accident.. but again would like some more information.. I am biased anyway (against him) as I always thought he seemed arrogant.. and I don't like his accent :shuffle:
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,125
    Pistorius Charged With Murder in Shooting of Girlfriend: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/15/sports/oscar-pistorius-shooting-south-africa.html
    Reuters article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/14/us-safrica-pistorius-idUSBRE91D0AE20130214
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  26. skatingfan5

    skatingfan5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Messages:
    10,745
    The CNN story said his arrest in 2009 was because of something that happened at a party (not someone breaking into his home):
    Not even sure at this point if this information is correct -- will have to wait and see what is reported in coming days.
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,125
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  28. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,184
    You may have a point there.

    Even though it is hard to believe it, it is still possible that it could have been a case of mistaken identity in this sad event.

    We just don't have enough information to draw conclusions at this time. We may have to wait and see what the courts in SA decide.
  29. FGRSK8

    FGRSK8 In Search of a Lost Chord

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Messages:
    14,932
    How can anyone shoot such a gorgeous person? :(
  30. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    42,737
    That someone without legs has a higher survival instinct and therefore it's understandable that they would shoot somebody without thinking more quickly than an able-bodied person? Is there any scientific evidence to support that? :confused:



    We have plenty of information to draw conclusions and they are all pointing to it not being a case of mistaken identity.
  31. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,504
    No, it's still homicide even if it's accidental, but murder requires intent.

    All murders are homicides, but not all homicides are murders.

    At least in English. I don't know how the words are used in Portuguese.
  32. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    15,100
    Would it have been better if she were ugly?
    allezfred and (deleted member) like this.
  33. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,351
    If he had a semiautomatic weapon shooting four times might still be mistaken identity intruder situation.
  34. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    11,051
    My first thought too. We don't have a gun at home, but we have a big heavy flashlight by the bed and a crowbar in the closet. When I come home from work/gym at 2am (which I sometimes do), my fiance never has either in his hands thinking I'm an intruder.

    In the same vein, it also could be argued that smaller women are justified in shooting first, asking later...
  35. Gazpacho

    Gazpacho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,331
    Was she driving an unfamiliar car? That's the only way I would find the mistaken intruder theory plausible. Each car has a sound, and a familiar car pulling into the driveway sounds different than an unfamiliar car.

    I imagine that a gated community with high profile residents would have security cameras that could provide more information.
  36. sequins

    sequins New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    826
    I admit I was stunned when I heard this today. I certainly never would've guessed. Proof once again that you never truly no someone especially when you only no them through the media and the image they present. Interestingly enough tonight on a sports radio station they had a writer from Sports Illustrated that followed him and they asked him if he was surprised. He said he wasn't surprised that something happened but surprised that it ended up being a murder charge. He said Pistorious lived fast and that he was aware he needed to make changes but that no one around him ever seemed to want to intervene. He stated that there had been numerous incidents(public drunkeness, calls to police for domestic 'incidents', etc) but that you really couldn't report on them because you were looked down on. Pistorious was a hero, polite to the media, and inspiration and to do anything to taint that was frowned upon. He then spoke to how it should be the responsibility of the media to report on the facts no matter what because maybe in some way it could've helped. It's just so sad for the poor womans family. She seemed so hopeful and lovely and now she's gone and Oscar Pistorious will forever be remembered as a murderer instead of everything else good that he use to be.
  37. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    38,302
    Manslaughter, perhaps? Or does South Africa now have that legal category?
  38. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,748
    Very sad news:(
    My thoughts are with her family and friends.
  39. jl

    jl Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,260
    It's a tragedy that this happened, though it's strange that in all the statements regarding domestic abuse, more attention was initially paid to people carrying weapons than the very high rate of domestic violence in South Africa. I haven't done anything in this field for a few years, but when I was working with an NGO in Ghana we did review the substantive differences in domestic violence legislation between Ghana and South Africa.

    South Africa has been quite aggressive in its DV legislation to try and give a public forum for this problem, but it was spurred into this because the rate of actual physical, economic or emotional violence was thought to be very high. At a forum I attended in Ghana, a spokesperson from a pan-African women's rights NGO had estimated South Africa to have the highest rate of domestic violence on the continent, though they also noted this may be due to a higher rate of documented/reported cases as opposed to countries with fewer resources.

    Some have theorized that because of South Africa's high rate of crime and violence, that translates into a high rate of gender-based and domestic violence. There may be some links there, but regardless, I think the big culprit is the overall difficulty that South African women face in bringing forth charges of DV in spite of legislative efforts. Then again, such legislative efforts have been both encouraged and frustrated by the ANC at various turns.

    A few articles/sites for reference include:

    http://www.genderlinks.org.za/artic...ce-must-be-included-in-crime-stats-2011-09-13

    http://www.womeninaction.co.za/social-affairs/statistics-on-domestic-violence-in-south-africa/

    My condolences to Reeva Steenkamp's family.
  40. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    38,302
    Pistorious may become something of a negative poster child for domestic violence in South Africa, given the timing.

    Pistorius appeared in court in Pretoria Friday morning, which coincided with "Black Friday," a day when people were being urged to wear black to protest rapes and violence against women.

    South Africa has one of the highest rates of gun homicides, with killings of women by intimate partners the leading cause of female homicide in the country. Some 57% of female homicide victims were killed by their partners in 2009, according to a report last year by the Medical Research Council, a rate of 5.7% per 100,000. One-third of female homicides were committed by partners with a history of prior violence against their partners, according to the report.

    He's being charged with premeditated murder.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/world/w...nner-pistorius-weeps-20130215,0,1295646.story