No U.S. Nationals for Lysacek

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Visaliakid, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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  2. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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  3. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I can't imagine the US men skating badly enough to lose a spot; the only way that should happen is if someone has to WD and the other does badly (as happened to the Russian men in 2010). Also, Abbott has good programs and is getting great PCS; if he does well at Worlds,the US won't even need the other guy to place all that high. And Rippon is currently 12th on the season's best list (11th, if only counting seniors), with four Japanese skaters ahead of him - obviously they won't all be in Nice.

    I'm so not surprised that Evan's out of Nats. I wonder how serious he was about this comeback to begin with - surely if he really wanted to compete, he'd have found a way to make a deal with the USFSA?
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  4. Cupid

    Cupid Well-Known Member

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    The sole, ignorant comment after the article was:

    "Why is this story about a dancing guy in the sports section? Perhaps there was a mistake on the way to the Tempo section, but the Trib should correct this."

    :rolleyes:
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  5. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what Evan will do this season, since he isn't on the SOI cast list.
  6. Garden Kitty

    Garden Kitty Tranquillo

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    From the linked article:

    I wonder what the other "matters" are?
  7. snoopysnake

    snoopysnake Well-Known Member

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    :(:(:(:(:(

    I was really looking forward to see his skates for this season.
  8. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Last year Chan won the WC and Canada still lost a world team spot; therefore, it takes two very solid performances by both skaters. All of the USA men that are competing have had consistency problems in the past. If the Abbott from 2010 Nationals shows up, then team USA will do well. However, if the Abbott from the 2009 WC, 2009 World Team Trophy, or 2010 Olympics shows up, then team USA will be in big trouble.
  9. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    If things weren't settled yet, maybe he shouldn't have even mentioned he was coming back until he knew for sure.
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  10. Tesla

    Tesla Whippet Good

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    It always amazes me when people worry that the US will go down to one spot for the men. You have to really work at losing that second spot. It isn't easy, and yes, I know the Russians and flukes can happen, but that can happen to anyone, so I'm not worried. As for Canada, they went from 3 to 2 spots. That is a lot different that going from 2 to 1 spot. It would take a lot for the US to lose a spot, and who knows? Maybe it'll happen, but I find it highly unlikely and not worth worrying about for 5 months.
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  11. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Canada doesn't have great depth behind Chan, and as Tesla noted, they lost a third spot - those are trickier to get and to keep. But to keep two spots with two skaters, the US men would need a total combined placement of 28 or less - which is not that hard to achieve. Abbott was 11th at his worst, I believe; in that case, the other skater would need to finish 17th to keep the second spot. And if I'm not mistaken, a top ten finish by the no. 1 guy and the US keeps the second spot no matter what. Abbott and Rippon did well enough in 2010 to keep a third spot.

    ETA: Edited again because the correction was incorrect ;)
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Canada had 3 men at 2011 Worlds and they placed 1st, 20th and 24th. For a 2-skater team, their combined placements have to exceed 28 points to go down to just one spot. So even a combined 12th and 16th place finish would retain 2 spots.

    ETA that I looked up the ISU Rule (#378) - relevant excerpt:
    Zemgirl was right. :D
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  13. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

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    That's just bizarre. I understood the GP, but... I think this is an error if he really wants to go to Sochi. Plus the training etc.. has to be costing him $$$$ with no "reward"
  14. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    I had to laugh at this reader comment:

    I'm not really surprised about this. If Evan truly wanted to compete, he would have done the GP.
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  15. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    It sounds to me like he wants more money than he would be getting from being on whatever "envelope" he would be on now. In other words, I think he wants a special envelope restricted to the Federation's only active Olympic Gold Medalist (or perhaps to Olympic medalists, which would include Davis & White).

    Why, stand and model, of course. ;)
  16. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Well-Known Member

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    The rumour I heard was that the USFSA wants a percentage of Evan's endorsement contracts. IOW's he has to pay THEM if he wants to compete, and that Evan is balking at this grab of his endorsement income.
  17. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    I wonder if the USFSA ever got a percentage from other skaters, Michelle, Tara, Sarah, etc..
  18. Oreo

    Oreo Active Member

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    Is taking a percentage of a skater's endorsement income standard practice for the USFSA? Is that in the contract everybody signs?

    Edited to add: Adam Rippon, Richard Dornbush, and Ross Miner must be extremely relieved.
  19. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    That would be my next question as well. (though, it was pointed out that it was only a rumor)
  20. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    If it is, it shouldn't be. And if this is the reason, I do not blame Lysacek for refusing. If it is not standard, it is a shameless money grab by USFSA. If it has been a standard practice, he is still right to take a stand for himself and other skaters who have been subject to it.
  21. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    I'm happy that the next US Nationals will be "wide open" for the next generation. Nothing against Evan but I prefer to see a 'changing of the guard' after most Olympics. (That feeling goes for Plushy too...no national favoritism here.)
  22. nubka

    nubka Well-Known Member

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    :drama:
  23. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    Really, nubka??? So if you, for whatever reason, had a second job to make extra money and your first employer decreed to you that you had to turn over a percentage of your other income to them, you would do it happily? You would think yourself a diva if you did not?

    If any skater earns endorsement money, unless the endorsement was specifically negotiated by USFSA, they should not be entitled to or demand any portion of the money.
  24. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    I would like to know if that's standard practice, too. If it is, USFSA should be ashamed of themselves. The envelope money doesn't even begin to make up for what the skaters and their families have spent over the years. Grabbing for a chunk of their endorsement deals just looks greedy.
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  25. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I said it previously but I doubt he will come back at all. He will never come close to his 2009-2010 level of success, and he has already done it all in the sport, so what is the point. Right now he has a dream life as the Star of Stars on Ice, and he be giving that up to drop well down the international rankings. Plus he apparently no longer has much support from the USFSA.
  26. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    If Abbott skates to his potential he can medal at Worlds. One of the other U.S guys can come top 10. Regaining 3 spots is possible.
  27. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    Ah, where is Morry when he could actually be useful?
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  28. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know, we have no reason to buy the rumor (and it was qualified as a rumor by the poster) that the USFSA is doing a money grab here. There is simply no solid evidence of that right now. If a % of endorsements is part of the USFSA customary deal and it's applied across the board, well, then Evan knew all about it from the get-go and is trying to negotiate an exception to it. Ok, one can try - but we don't know if that's what's happening.

    It could just as well (to flip the coin in the rumor department) be Evan's representatives playing brinksmanship with USFSA: setting up the expectation that Evan is ready to skate (which is probably close to true), delivering nothing (except tweets) at this point, hoping that the US men will perform so poorly internationally this season that the USFSA offers Evan a whole big bundle (which they don't have) to return. But I have absolutely no evidence for that either - just my take because negotiation is a part of what I do for a living.

    It would be nice if we could get some real information but I doubt that the principals will be forthcoming. My overall impression - Evan isn't doing himself any PR favors here regardless of the scenario. I think I'm with Scott on this one - if you're going to skate, skate.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
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  29. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    It's time for Evan to move on. He had his day in the sun.
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  30. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    As I understand the rules, a top 10 finish by just one skater yields 2 spots for next year, and a top 2 finish yields 3 spots. But that's only if there is just one skater. If there are already 2, then both placements are counted.