Nikolai Morozov cheer thread?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by skateboy, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Fashion. You can break it down to specifics, but IMO it became popular to diss Morosov on FSU after an infamous incident at TEB a few years ago. Few seem to remember that there was a time when Morosov was one of FSU's darlings - back when he was TT's sidekick, fans approved of his emerging role with her skaters, and even commented frequently on his good looks. News that he was to choreograph someone new was often met with great anticipation. When he went out on his own, I think many cheered on his future success.

    Then, as happens, some fans started to grown tired of his signature choreography or were disappointed when he didn't get results for their favourites, and those who were willing to forgive his indiscretions in the face of true love simply could not forgive him for breaking Shae's heart. As others have mentioned, we're all used to Russian and former USSR skaters and choreographers hopping in and out of each other's beds, but Shae seemed separate from all that. Then he started hooking up with younger skaters he was coaching, which while legal, puts a lot of people off.

    But the collective dislike only started after that TEB IIRC, and the telling and retelling of that story has resulted in his newly mocking image of being oily, greasy etc.

    Lesson to those in the skating community: don't mess with FSU. :lol:
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I'll judge him if the girlfriend in question is not a legal adult, is almost young enough to be his daughter, and if she's a student of his. It's creepy and unethical. I don't judge the women involved with him, though I deplore their taste in men.
  3. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    This reminds me of a ballet person I used to know. Real character-drank a lot, cheated on his wife, womanized, verbally battered his dancers. I still despise him, but I will truthfully say that he was a brilliant teacher who could take someone with bad habits or lack of training, and in 6 months they would be amazing ballet dancers. He also created some of the most wonderful choreography I've ever seen.

    I believe you have to take the work of someone and separate it from the individual's bad behavior. The work stands alone. If it's really, really good, it will endure long after the person is dead. The art/music/dance/literature worlds are littered with very problematical artists whose work has endured for centuries.

    HOWEVER...I admit that sometimes I just get a dislike on for someone because they behaved badly-did something rotten. I'm guilty! (And I sure as hell am not going to mention one particular episode that really got my goat because then we'd be off on that tangent...given recent threads...) But it can and does affect how people view the disliked person's work, and that can be a shame.

    I don't like a lot of Morozov's choreography, but many of the pieces listed above are some of my favorites. He's a mixed bag. I do wish Voronov would go somewhere else. I haven't liked the choreography for him, if you want to call it choreography, and I believe in my gut that Sergei could be better with a different influence.
  4. CanuckSk8r

    CanuckSk8r New Member

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    When people don't see the need to keep work and play seperate, those observing don't see the need to either.

    Personally, I am impartial to his choreography, some I like, some I don't. As for the other stuff - anyone that dates their students/suboridinates is smarmy. Don't care who they are or where they are from. Same goes for serial cheaters.
  5. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I don't doubt that this accounts for a lot of the anti-Morozov feelings, but given the rumors that he was still married to the French woman when he became involved with Shae, I find it quite ironic. :lol:

    I agree that it is fashionable to hate Morozov. A couple of years ago, people were constantly saying Zhulin was smarmy (around the same time as he was coaching N&K, who weren't that well-liked and many felt were overmarked). And now, everyone seems to love him and thinks he is a genius. After a couple of years, the Morozov hate will be so entrenched here that it will become fashionable to be a contrarian and root for Morozov again. ;)

    The only thing that does bother me is when the Morozov hate bleeds over into hatred for his skaters. It seems to be the case especially with Amodio. I understand why people feel that Morozov's choreo does not show Amodio in the best light, but Amodio seems to engender a lot of personal dislike whereas he seems like a nice guy IMO.
  6. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I find them both smarmy, but Zhulin has more interesting ideas. If you're shooting for evil genius, it's not enough to just be evil :p

    I like Amodio, which is why it upsets me so much to see his talent wasted in the hands of Morozov and those crappy programs he does keep getting top marks. His pre-Morozov programs (2009-10) were so much more interesting. Someone send the guy to Camerlango, he'll know what to do with him (Kenji Miyamoto and Stephane Lambiel would also be acceptable options).
  7. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    But thus far all of his known girlfriends HAVE been legal adults or at the age of consent so I don't see your problem. Where have you seen proof otherwise? In Russia the age of consent is 16 not 18 or did you miss that post upthread?

    I DID say such age differences are not palatable to me. But they are also not wrong as long as it is between consenting adults-which Morosov and his girlfriends have been thus far.
  8. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Is today "Ziggy uses the word t--t in every thread" day?
  9. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    :lol: No doubt!
  10. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, since I addressed that post upthread, I did not miss it. Nor was my post that you are quoting incorrect; the age of majority in Russia (legal adult) is 18. Age of consent and legal adult are not the same thing, but regardless, a man in his mid-30s hooking up with his less than 18 year old student is wrong in more than one way. So no, I'm not going to give him a pass. In some countries the age of consent is even lower, and I believe is used to be 14 in Russia - should I give adults in places with lower ages of consent a pass on disgusting behavior?
  11. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    According to :sekret:, he's going to have his girlfriend and her partner skate to this, and he's going to publish a book called The Drinking Man's Guide to Sochi. :shuffle: :scream:
  12. Dance truth

    Dance truth New Member

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    He has claimed over a few drinks, to have had her!!!!!! while at Junior world in Hague
  13. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    He wasn't even her coach then... I guess it's possible, but seems doubtful.
  14. winterchik

    winterchik Member

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    Not her Coach..but he was there
  15. smileyskate

    smileyskate New Member

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    Does anyone still have the old youtube clip of him as scary Morozov? I think he was yelling at poor Miki.
  16. analia

    analia Member

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    Can someone please reiterate that incident? I don't know anything about that and would love to know.

    I have to admit, I'm a big fan, particularly because he has the guts to hook up with all these women and woos them not just for a fling, but for real longstanding, if intertwining, and very public romance... He is greasy hot. I would totally have gone for a guy like him when I was 17. Some girls are just emotionally more mature than others and Ilinykh is definitely one of them. Knowing a thing or two about this kind of situation I would say the younger girl normally wants the relationship more than the older guy, with less burden too. They could have hidden the relationship better though. But it seems even I's parents don't care. Why should anyone else? I very much object to the idea that a teacher can't date a student, or some company's policy that co-workers can't date each other. That's just anti-human. People should be able to date whoever they see fit.
    However, he could definitely use some help in music taste. And maybe take a transition lesson from David Wilson.

    Let's be honest, Morozov and TT are the only interesting characters these days. The skating world won't be the same without them. I don't think Morozov is the best coach for Daisuke if he wants to win everything, but I also can't imagine him going to any NA coach.
  17. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know the age of majority and the age of consent are two different things which is why I said 'legal adults or at the age of consent in my previous post.

    Morosov as far as is known has broken no laws. And once again, I don't find it palatable that an older man is hooking up with a much younger woman-or girl as such is the case. But it still does not make it wrong. It makes it gross and icky-but it's not wrong. At least not in his country or the countries where he has consorted with younger women. It wouldn't even be wrong in the States - depending what State you are in. The age of consent varies in the U.S.

    You don't have to give ANYONE a pass if you choose not to. But I certainly can't condemn a man as long as he is not involved in criminal activity with a minor-which Morosov, again as far is is known, has not. Mind you, I don't have to approve of his behavior-but I cannot condemn him for it either. And so far I've not heard of the man consorting with 14 year olds. His youngest conquest appears to have been 17. Not a child in Russia.
  18. TheresMaude

    TheresMaude New Member

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    Thanks for posting this question and starting this discussion, skateboy. I'm an on-and-off reader of these boards and have often wondered about the source of some of the widely held feeling against certain skating figures, so I'm happy to have learned the source of some of the animus towards NM.

    What were the racist remarks he is reported to have said?
  19. EuroWaltzing

    EuroWaltzing New Member

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    We have no right to judge this man's personal life, only his career as a skating coach. I have enjoyed almost everything Morozov has done in the skating world and want to see him involved in skating until his retirement which hopefully won't be until he is in his 70's.

    GO MOROZOV GO!!!!!!!
  20. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

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  21. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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    From what you have written here, I assume it is your impression that Ilinykh is emotionally more mature than others and that you haven't actually met her.
    When things like that are said, it is difficult to be sure weather there is "meeting of the minds". If you check out Facebook - you see hundreds of thousands of teens/young adults sharing their photos - some very private and almost nude, they write all kinds of private information about themselves; what do they do, what do they prefer - and share this with whole world.
    Ilinykh's instagram/twitter account is a good example of this. If I remember correctly, her facebook and formspring were very informative and showed her as a girl very much unaware of her surroundings.
    This does not make her mature. She was/is acting immature. And while her attraction and interest in an older guy is explainable - Morozov behavior is inappropriate, to say at least. He is a successful man when it comes to his career, he is also 3 times divorced father of a young girl. While this is not important to skating, it is to his personal relationships with his students. And the fact that Ilinykh was underage and in inferior position, it only makes this hole situation more disgusting.
    There are very good reasons behind policies of teachers not dating their students, even at universities, where students are over 18.
    While Ilinykh's behavior can be understood with her immaturity and youth, Morozov is like a character from a cheep novel when it comes to women or girls in his life...
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  22. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    Well if your are aka Morozombie then big cheers for you. Morozov himself then a big sheep like Mehhhhhh ~~

    As much as my distaste for his personal life which I try to not dwell or pass judgement (but it is hard to avoid on these boards especially with all these depressed Miki tweets, and that horrible interview he gave a while ago that seems to show he is a heartless douche). My biggest gripe with him is these lazy trite work these past few season that moonlight as best COP programs out there that wins competitions. These are thematically modulised, cookie cutter formulas that structurally similar from one to the next while being thematically and artistic false, all appearance and no substance. Pick an obvious theme, make some references, while everything is the same as another. He makes it easy to spoon feed the judges because of the ticking COP boxes appeal to a mid level of generic and safe approach that is easy to digest without being challenged or offend too much. However this is far from an honest way to conceive or craft program from scratch, where original creative ideas, experimentation, challenging, risks, depth of realization that goes into convey new thoughts and ideas to push the envelope.

    How many of his programs would you really want to replay over and over again? Anything fresh and new? The thing is he is not without talent, but the fact he seems to have lost motivation to working hard to create something new and challenging does annoy. Actually - I wouldn't have minded so much, but the fact this approach continues to wins competitions shows the fault of COP and sport fairly well. Where difficult, thoughtful, challenging, intricate and risk taking work continues to be undervalued, in favour of something generic, formulaic, safe, mass appeal because they are much easier to read - that get to win. Not because of superiority and quality but because they exploiting the system well and took advantage of the rules and trends. Is this good enough of an approach to define the world's bests?
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  23. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Some of it is covered in this article.
  24. Kasey

    Kasey Loving on babies!

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    Some of us have had reason to be nauseated by His Oiliness even before the infamous TEB incident. It's not necessarily a bandwagon.
  25. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Care to elaborate? :watch:
  26. Kasey

    Kasey Loving on babies!

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  27. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    But, if one can say that Morozov did his best work under 6.0, could it not be argued that this is due to the specific demands of COP, especially if his programs win competitions under the new system as well as the old?
  28. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there's a choreographer who does nothing but good work, but we have seen programs that were interesting and creative under the IJS. Just not from Morozov - that is, I think the last program he did that was original and generally well-regarded among fans was Dai's Swan. He choreographed that in, what, summer 2007? I can't think of anything particularly interesting he's done since then, and because he works with a fair number of skaters in all four disciplines, you can't get away from his programs. They are successful IJS in the bad sense of the word - they tick off the boxes - rather than the good, which is integrating difficulty into a strong program in an organic way (e.g. much of Steuer's work with S/S). So no, I'm not going to blame the IJS for Morozov having become a hack. I mean, Nichol turns out quite a bit of cookie cutter stuff, but her work for Kostner is usually very good. Wilson's programs go from meh to fabulous, but the fabulous ones really can be special (e.g. Takahashi's Garden of Souls). Marina Zoueva doesn't always have the most original ideas, but some of the programs she does really are special. Whereas with Morozov, paint by numbers has been the high end of the scale for several years.
  29. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I've watched Oda's Chaplin program over and over. In fact, I just watched it again yesterday and still love it. I think it's the best program Oda's ever had--definitely fresh and new and perfect for him--and, IMO, it was the best men's program of the 2009-10 season.

    As for others, well... I rarely watch any program over and over again, with the exception of some of the great battles/rivalries from the past. :)
  30. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Can't agree with you on this one. Morozov works with many skaters at the lower levels, as well as elite skaters.
  31. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't Aliona Savchenko in relationship with their coach too?
  32. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Do you happen to follow figure skating, rayhaneh? ;)

    A certain recent five-time Italian National Men's champion has been married to his coach since 2007.
  33. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    I am sorry - I happen not to care very much for the skaters' private lives and forget these things about has soon as I hear them :lol:
  34. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    deleted
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2013
  35. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Was she his coach when they became involved? Either way, the power dynamic and age difference do strike me as being quite different than what we've seen in Morozov's case.

    ETA: looks like she only started coaching him some time after their marriage.
  36. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    According to this article, Geraldine Zulini began coaching Samuel Contesti in 2004, about three years before they got married. As far as I know, at various times that they worked together, he also worked with other coaches, such as Peter Grütter and Didier and Claudine Lucine. I remember seeing Contesti sitting in the Kiss and Cry with both his wife and Grütter at one or more competitions. I am not sure, though, whether Contesti and Zulini's personal relationship before or after she started coaching him. I have always been under the impression that the personal and professional relationships sort of developed at the same time.

    If I recall correctly, they are almost exactly the same age, and the he is eight days older than she.

    It's a very different dynamic from that of Morozov and any of his recent girlfriends.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2013
  37. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    So what about Savchenko and Steuer?
  38. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Yeah, they dated on and off. That one was squicky to me, especially at the beginning, because I got the sense that he was not only her coach, but she was relying on him for everything. She was new to the country and navigating the language, her citizenship, getting funding and a job, all in addition to her training. Ingo is also renown for his temper. Woetzel (who also dated him) has talked about it and S&S have also noted that training sessions can be explosive. My hats off to them for managing to be so consistent and professional despite the drama.
  39. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ What, were you their housekeeper or something?

    The fact they have been in an off-ice relationship is well known, and the fact he's her coach is legendary and iconic. What that has to do with Morosov's dating habits is nil.
  40. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I've got no special sources, so anything I've said was previously discussed on FSU.