Nikolai Morozov cheer thread?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by skateboy, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    14,524
    1,876
    113
    His serial cheating is a big part. I don't think it's just about getting involved with students, but the fact that he or the student is often married. ;) He was supposedly married, and his wife pregnant, when he got involved with Shae-Lynn. Then while married to Shae-Lynn, had an affair with Grushina, while coaching her and her husband. Kind of awkward. :lol: With that said, I don't like how others like Zhulin seem to get more of a pass for doing similar things (cheating on Usova with Navka and Grishuk, and I'm pretty sure Mikhailova was still in juniors when he started dating her and I believe he was still married to Navka too). I think Morozov's generally creepy personality and his racist comments make people less inclined to like him.

    My main skating issue with him is as an ice dance coach/choreographer. With the singles and pairs, yeah, he mostly sucks, but not always, and he is hardly the only one choreographing empty programs. I have higher standards for dance. So many of his dances were carbon copies of previous ones. GrushGons 2005 FD ripped off L&T's Air/Storm and their 2006 FD ripped of G&P and N&K's The Feeling Begins. GregPets 2006 FD was a ripoff of A&P's Romeo & Juliet. I'm not saying you can never use the same music as another team, but those dances included similar music cuts, choreography, and costumes. It was just lazy.

    And it's not much better when he tries to be original. B&K's 2003 FD was like a parody of Russian ice dance, but not meant to be. Then there was I&K's Ave Maria where they waited to reveal it (going so far as to skate it to different music at the Russian test skate) because it was so original... and, well, let's just say there was a reason noone has used it before. ;) And then this year, outdoing himself with Ghost... I mean, they literally have the words "I'm talking to YOU, esse!" in their FD! I just can't!
     
  2. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    18,008
    2,346
    113
    First thought when I saw the thread title: "That's gonna be the shortest thread in FSU history." :lol:
     
  3. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

    6,485
    524
    113
    ROTFL, I clicked mostly because I was thinking "How on Earth is that thread two pages?"
     
  4. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

    545
    65
    28
    Zhulin and Tatiana Navka
    Zhulin with Natalia Mikhailova :slinkaway
    :p

    Truth must be said, that as far as I remember Navka and Zhulin started to date before he became her coach. But he was indeed Mikhailova's coach when they started dating.
    Tatiana Malinina was also coached by her boyfriend at some point. I believe he used to compete in singles as well but would coach Malinina.
     
  5. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    14,524
    1,876
    113
    Vassiliev also dated two students - Totmianina and Mukhortova.

    Then there was Angela Nikodinev coaching Ivan Dinev, Contesti and Chiper being coached by their wives... but in those cases I am not sure if the romantic relationship began before the coaching one, and anyway, they are all similar in age so you don't get the impression one has authority and influence over the other.
     
  6. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

    545
    65
    28
    Wasn't Michael Weiss married with his choreographer?

    Anyway, I do like some of Morozov's work. One thing in which he seems to excel is in giving confidence to his students.
     
  7. JasperBoy

    JasperBoy Heading for Helsinki

    3,126
    513
    113
    Four words....he hurt our Shae. That is all.
     
    Norlite and (deleted member) like this.
  8. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

    26,863
    4,042
    113
    Wasn't this supposed to be a cheer thread? I always thought it was meant to point out the positives.

    Normally if there is a cheer thread about a skater I don't care for, I leave it alone.
     
  9. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

    452
    102
    0
    I think most people's posts are in reply to the OP which specifically ask people why they don't like (or hate) Morozov ;)
     
  10. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

    3,762
    327
    83
    If his girlfriends are at the age of consent his daughter's age is irrelevant. I myself don't find the sight of much older men with much younger women (or much older women with much younger men for that matter) very palatable but Morosov is not exactly a senior citizen just yet-and what if he were? Who are we to judge if a younger woman wants to be with him? Thus far his dalliances aren't criminal as far as anyone knows. Just morally a put off I suppose. And as someone upthread pointed out, the age of consent in Russia is 16 - not 18 which is more or less the standard in the States.

    I've enjoyed Morosov's choreography in the past for skaters like Yagudin, Cohen and Ando too. Not enamored of his current work but then I'm not much enamored of most choreography under the current COP. It has to be hard for most choreographers under such constraints. There was much more freedom under 6.0.

    As to the man-I don't hate him per se. I guess I could say I don't care one way or another for him.

    OT, but I never gave Zhulin a pass. I think he was a real jerk towards Maia. He gave his wedding ring to Grishuk at one point while still married to Usova. Such an in-your-face move designed to hurt Maia was and is reprehensible. No wonder Usova punched Grishuk in the face. I'm not sure I wouldn't either if she were to flaunt her affair with my husband in such an outrageous manner. If Zhulin didn't love Maia anymore fine but he might have divorced her first before cheating on her and allowing Grishuk to rub her affair with Zhulin in Usova's face. No class.

    That being said-I think Zhulin and Usova's "Four Seasons" FD is one of the greatest Ice Dance masterpieces EVER. :swoon: Zhulin's crappy behavior off-ice has never changed my opinion on that score!
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  11. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    17,560
    2,130
    113
    Fashion. You can break it down to specifics, but IMO it became popular to diss Morosov on FSU after an infamous incident at TEB a few years ago. Few seem to remember that there was a time when Morosov was one of FSU's darlings - back when he was TT's sidekick, fans approved of his emerging role with her skaters, and even commented frequently on his good looks. News that he was to choreograph someone new was often met with great anticipation. When he went out on his own, I think many cheered on his future success.

    Then, as happens, some fans started to grown tired of his signature choreography or were disappointed when he didn't get results for their favourites, and those who were willing to forgive his indiscretions in the face of true love simply could not forgive him for breaking Shae's heart. As others have mentioned, we're all used to Russian and former USSR skaters and choreographers hopping in and out of each other's beds, but Shae seemed separate from all that. Then he started hooking up with younger skaters he was coaching, which while legal, puts a lot of people off.

    But the collective dislike only started after that TEB IIRC, and the telling and retelling of that story has resulted in his newly mocking image of being oily, greasy etc.

    Lesson to those in the skating community: don't mess with FSU. :lol:
     
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  12. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    5,582
    1,851
    113
    I'll judge him if the girlfriend in question is not a legal adult, is almost young enough to be his daughter, and if she's a student of his. It's creepy and unethical. I don't judge the women involved with him, though I deplore their taste in men.
     
  13. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

    3,867
    824
    113
    This reminds me of a ballet person I used to know. Real character-drank a lot, cheated on his wife, womanized, verbally battered his dancers. I still despise him, but I will truthfully say that he was a brilliant teacher who could take someone with bad habits or lack of training, and in 6 months they would be amazing ballet dancers. He also created some of the most wonderful choreography I've ever seen.

    I believe you have to take the work of someone and separate it from the individual's bad behavior. The work stands alone. If it's really, really good, it will endure long after the person is dead. The art/music/dance/literature worlds are littered with very problematical artists whose work has endured for centuries.

    HOWEVER...I admit that sometimes I just get a dislike on for someone because they behaved badly-did something rotten. I'm guilty! (And I sure as hell am not going to mention one particular episode that really got my goat because then we'd be off on that tangent...given recent threads...) But it can and does affect how people view the disliked person's work, and that can be a shame.

    I don't like a lot of Morozov's choreography, but many of the pieces listed above are some of my favorites. He's a mixed bag. I do wish Voronov would go somewhere else. I haven't liked the choreography for him, if you want to call it choreography, and I believe in my gut that Sergei could be better with a different influence.
     
  14. CanuckSk8r

    CanuckSk8r New Member

    1,197
    253
    0
    When people don't see the need to keep work and play seperate, those observing don't see the need to either.

    Personally, I am impartial to his choreography, some I like, some I don't. As for the other stuff - anyone that dates their students/suboridinates is smarmy. Don't care who they are or where they are from. Same goes for serial cheaters.
     
  15. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    14,524
    1,876
    113
    I don't doubt that this accounts for a lot of the anti-Morozov feelings, but given the rumors that he was still married to the French woman when he became involved with Shae, I find it quite ironic. :lol:

    I agree that it is fashionable to hate Morozov. A couple of years ago, people were constantly saying Zhulin was smarmy (around the same time as he was coaching N&K, who weren't that well-liked and many felt were overmarked). And now, everyone seems to love him and thinks he is a genius. After a couple of years, the Morozov hate will be so entrenched here that it will become fashionable to be a contrarian and root for Morozov again. ;)

    The only thing that does bother me is when the Morozov hate bleeds over into hatred for his skaters. It seems to be the case especially with Amodio. I understand why people feel that Morozov's choreo does not show Amodio in the best light, but Amodio seems to engender a lot of personal dislike whereas he seems like a nice guy IMO.
     
  16. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    5,582
    1,851
    113
    I find them both smarmy, but Zhulin has more interesting ideas. If you're shooting for evil genius, it's not enough to just be evil :p

    I like Amodio, which is why it upsets me so much to see his talent wasted in the hands of Morozov and those crappy programs he does keep getting top marks. His pre-Morozov programs (2009-10) were so much more interesting. Someone send the guy to Camerlango, he'll know what to do with him (Kenji Miyamoto and Stephane Lambiel would also be acceptable options).
     
  17. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

    3,762
    327
    83
    But thus far all of his known girlfriends HAVE been legal adults or at the age of consent so I don't see your problem. Where have you seen proof otherwise? In Russia the age of consent is 16 not 18 or did you miss that post upthread?

    I DID say such age differences are not palatable to me. But they are also not wrong as long as it is between consenting adults-which Morosov and his girlfriends have been thus far.
     
  18. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    6,573
    276
    83
    Is today "Ziggy uses the word t--t in every thread" day?
     
  19. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    17,560
    2,130
    113
    :lol: No doubt!
     
  20. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    5,582
    1,851
    113
    Obviously, since I addressed that post upthread, I did not miss it. Nor was my post that you are quoting incorrect; the age of majority in Russia (legal adult) is 18. Age of consent and legal adult are not the same thing, but regardless, a man in his mid-30s hooking up with his less than 18 year old student is wrong in more than one way. So no, I'm not going to give him a pass. In some countries the age of consent is even lower, and I believe is used to be 14 in Russia - should I give adults in places with lower ages of consent a pass on disgusting behavior?
     
  21. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    3,802
    950
    113
    According to :sekret:, he's going to have his girlfriend and her partner skate to this, and he's going to publish a book called The Drinking Man's Guide to Sochi. :shuffle: :scream:
     
  22. Dance truth

    Dance truth New Member

    28
    2
    0
    He has claimed over a few drinks, to have had her!!!!!! while at Junior world in Hague
     
  23. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    14,524
    1,876
    113
    He wasn't even her coach then... I guess it's possible, but seems doubtful.
     
  24. winterchik

    winterchik Member

    164
    14
    18
    Not her Coach..but he was there
     
  25. smileyskate

    smileyskate New Member

    667
    27
    0
    Does anyone still have the old youtube clip of him as scary Morozov? I think he was yelling at poor Miki.
     
  26. analia

    analia Active Member

    169
    33
    28
    Can someone please reiterate that incident? I don't know anything about that and would love to know.

    I have to admit, I'm a big fan, particularly because he has the guts to hook up with all these women and woos them not just for a fling, but for real longstanding, if intertwining, and very public romance... He is greasy hot. I would totally have gone for a guy like him when I was 17. Some girls are just emotionally more mature than others and Ilinykh is definitely one of them. Knowing a thing or two about this kind of situation I would say the younger girl normally wants the relationship more than the older guy, with less burden too. They could have hidden the relationship better though. But it seems even I's parents don't care. Why should anyone else? I very much object to the idea that a teacher can't date a student, or some company's policy that co-workers can't date each other. That's just anti-human. People should be able to date whoever they see fit.
    However, he could definitely use some help in music taste. And maybe take a transition lesson from David Wilson.

    Let's be honest, Morozov and TT are the only interesting characters these days. The skating world won't be the same without them. I don't think Morozov is the best coach for Daisuke if he wants to win everything, but I also can't imagine him going to any NA coach.
     
  27. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

    3,762
    327
    83
    Yes, I know the age of majority and the age of consent are two different things which is why I said 'legal adults or at the age of consent in my previous post.

    Morosov as far as is known has broken no laws. And once again, I don't find it palatable that an older man is hooking up with a much younger woman-or girl as such is the case. But it still does not make it wrong. It makes it gross and icky-but it's not wrong. At least not in his country or the countries where he has consorted with younger women. It wouldn't even be wrong in the States - depending what State you are in. The age of consent varies in the U.S.

    You don't have to give ANYONE a pass if you choose not to. But I certainly can't condemn a man as long as he is not involved in criminal activity with a minor-which Morosov, again as far is is known, has not. Mind you, I don't have to approve of his behavior-but I cannot condemn him for it either. And so far I've not heard of the man consorting with 14 year olds. His youngest conquest appears to have been 17. Not a child in Russia.
     
  28. TheresMaude

    TheresMaude New Member

    31
    2
    0
    Thanks for posting this question and starting this discussion, skateboy. I'm an on-and-off reader of these boards and have often wondered about the source of some of the widely held feeling against certain skating figures, so I'm happy to have learned the source of some of the animus towards NM.

    What were the racist remarks he is reported to have said?
     
  29. EuroWaltzing

    EuroWaltzing New Member

    147
    9
    0
    We have no right to judge this man's personal life, only his career as a skating coach. I have enjoyed almost everything Morozov has done in the skating world and want to see him involved in skating until his retirement which hopefully won't be until he is in his 70's.

    GO MOROZOV GO!!!!!!!
     
  30. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

    4,610
    829
    113