Nikolai Morozov cheer thread?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by skateboy, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I figure this will raise some eyebrows around here. But seriously...

    What is with the EXTREME hate for this man? Yes, I get that some question his choreography at times, so have I. But he's not the first and won't be the last to provide questionable choreography. Even Lori Nicol and Camerlengo, to name just two others, have put out some not-so-great stuff. Christopher Dean didn't do MK any favor with Bolero. And in the big picture, Morozov has created some very good choreography, too.

    I also get that he's likes his women. Skaters often date/marry one another, so that's not uncommon. From what I've observed, it's not like he's going after underage girls and, frankly, it takes two to tango. So I really don't get the fuss about that and I don't know why anyone would particularly care.

    Probably most importantly, he's a damn good coach! His students have very good technique and he appears to be incredibly dedicated to his pupils. And you have to admit, he's got a terrific track record when it comes to producing winners. I've seen interviews where he seems nice enough. Maybe some of you have seen otherwise but, let's face it, Frank Carroll (to name another elite coach) isn't always exactly bursting with sunshine.

    So what's with all the hate?
  2. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    His choreography is not just bad. It's cheap.
  3. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    I love him. Hot mess. He is so greasy in person. I was hoping id see him drunk in Paris. Unfortunately he appeared to be on good behaviour.
  4. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Actually it was Michelle that didn't do Chris Dean any favor by giving him credit for the version of Bolero that the public saw at 05 Nationals and Worlds. Love MK, but she really shouldn't have done that to Dean.


    Morozov did brilliant work for Zag with Winter and Race Car driving SP. He injected new life into Michelle's skating for the 03 season and gave her the gorgeous Spartacus SP at at Nationals. And then there was hip-hop Swan for Dai. So yes, he has done some really innovative and inspiring choreography in the past.
  5. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Morozov helped Shizuka Arakawa win the OGM in 2006 by using the right strategy. I have liked some of his work, including that with Miki Ando. She started being more expressive in her routines. I don't approve of his numerous involvements with female skaters he is coaching, but he never committed a crime. I will leave it at that. I don't hate him because I mainly focus on his skating related successes, and he has had many.
  6. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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  7. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Very little of it, and mainly under 6.0. This, compared to a vast body of cookie cutter (at best) and dreadful to vulgar (at worst) programs. Also, he's ruined Florent Amodio artistically.

    Define underage. Soon his daughter will be older than his girlfriends.

    He does seem very dedicated, and his at-the-boards antics are quite entertaining. However, it seems to me that his skaters' greater consistency is achieved by constructing programs in such a way that jumping passes are reeled off in a row, with long breaks in between and plenty of posing and lazy choreography. His students do not all have very good technique, and even if they do, he is not a developmental coach, so they would have learned much of it (for better or worse) from someone else.

    Javier Fernandez is so much better now than he was with Morozov, both in terms of technical content and in how he's packaged.
  8. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Come on, now. His daughter is eleven. :p

    Oda was at his very best under Morozov, so much so that lots of FSUers thought he would challenge the gold medal in Vancouver. I believe Dai digressed after leaving Morozov and is skating much better now that he's returned to him. A skater could do much worse than having him as a coach.

    But I agree that Javi has flourished under Orser's tutelage.

    Which of his students have poor technique? (Not that I don't believe you, but I've noticed that his students tend to have fully rotated jumps, correct edges, good spins, etc.)

    It's not like I love Morozov or anything, I don't have a feeling one way or the other, really. I just don't understand the obsessive hate, especially when he really has done some very good work. (Although a fellow poster here has told me about an unfortunate incident involving a drunk, mouthy Morozov and some FSUers at a skating event from a few years ago, so I can understand that being a real deterrent from liking the guy.)
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  9. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    That's why I said soon and not now :D

    I thought she was 12 or 13, though?
  10. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    She was born in 2001, so unless she was born in January or the first week of February, she's 11. Nafka and Shae-Lynn are the same age as Morozov (37). Miki is now 25, so there is a 12-year age difference. It's not that weird. :)
  11. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    He did not. Takahashi was seriously injured a few months after leaving Morozov (torn ACL) and this had long-term implications that had nothing to do with his coaching. Things got better over time and Takahashi was in great form last season; he was magnificent at the WTT and has not improved technically since. Artistically, this season has been a solid step back for Dai.

    Leonova hasn't got great technique on some of her elements and her endless step sequences can be painful to watch. Morozov wasn't able to help Rippon with his 3A (to be fair, I'm not sure anyone can). Amodio has not improved technically, only in terms of consistency. This returns to my main point, which is that Morozov is not a developmental coach, and he isn't the one I would credit or hold accountable for good or bad technique. What he can do is help skaters become more consistent. I believe he accomplishes this by dumbing down their programs; you can disagree, of course. Unfortunately, the judges appear to do so as well, so there's no incentive for his skaters to get better programs. Look at Amodio, or Volosozhar and Trankov. They can do so much better, but why should they bother, when they get the PCS that they do for skating blah programs?

    Also, how old is Morozov's current gf?
  12. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Seventeen.

    Which, if we are holding his daughter to be eleven, is only six years older than his daughter.

    Gross.
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  13. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Is his girlfriend REALLY 17? If true, then yes, that is gross.
  14. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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    18, actually. Age of consent in Russia is 16, so whilst you may find it "gross", he's not technically doing anything wrong.
  15. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I think she was 17 when they hooked up but has since turned 18?

    Regardless of the age of consent, if you girlfriend is a teenager who is less than half your age, that's just wrong.
  16. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough.

    I do find it odd that Morozov seems to be, arguably, the most hated figure on FSU, when someone like Staviski got drunk as a skunk and actually killed someone as a result. Even he still gets a fair amount of respect. Not trying to start up a new topic here, but I feel the priorities are somewhat misplaced.
  17. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    That was a huge disservice to the legacy of both legends.
  18. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    What I hate most about Morosov is that he gets his skaters to focus solely on jumps. Ando, Leonova, Oda, Amodio were all just stroking from one end of the ice to the other, jumping, jumping, jumping, and then a minute long step sequence, rest spot, and then more stroking and stroking, and then more jumping and jumping. They have become consistent but there's no more life to their skating. Ando was no longer light on her feet like in 2004, Leonova was no longer perky like in 2009, Oda was no longer doing complex choreography like in 2006, and Amodio now skates like he is practising.
  19. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    Where is that throwing up gremlin when you need it?
  20. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    I actually liked the start of your thread, but you just got -65938768357 GOE for dragging Staviski into the discussion :lynch: :lol:

    More seriously, I tend to seperate personal issues and professional issues: there are people I admire greatly professionally but whom I don't have any affinity with as persons, as far as I can judge them anyway. The reverse happens too.

    So while I absolutely condemn Staviski for drunk-driving and am so sad for the tragic loss of life that occured as a result, that doesn't take away from the fact that he is, imo, one of the greatest ice dancers to ever grace the sport. These are seperate things

    Likewise, what Morozov makes of his private life, as long as he doesn't break any law, really is none of my business. Also, I don't feel like it's my place to judge or label their relationship wrong, especially since I really don't know either of them - happiness is scarce enough as it is, if this makes them happy, then more power to them I'd say ;)

    Personally, I hope Morozov stays around FOREVAH: as someone who writes a blog on Figure Skating, he's a great escape whenever you lack inspiration to write serious stuff. Plus you can blame EVERYTHING on him - he's a godsend for all struggling FS writers out there, believe me :lol:
  21. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    1) He's a racist, xenophobic twat.

    2) His choreography can be rarely interesting but the vast majority of it is horrifically bad. He's destroyed a number of really interesting skaters but giving them empty programs.

    This has made me :rolleyes:.

    You seriously think it's ok to abuse the power you have as a coach to get into a relationship with your student? It's not an equal level playing field! Which is why in some countries the age of consent is 18 in such cases.

    And FYI, Ilynikh was 17 when they started dating, IIRC.

    For me, the age issue is not really that important though.

    The point is that if you have a teacher/student, coach/athlete, therapist/patient, etc. relationship, it's very easy to get infatuated. The other person spends a lot of time with you, cares for you, guides you, etc. Which is why it's important to have ethical standards, remain professional and keep the appropriate boundaries.

    Morozov strikes me as a slimeball who will screw everything that moves.
  22. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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    :lynch:

    i think he is a vampire.
    Could name half a dozen reasons to support this, but I think it would not be so wise on his cheer thread.... even if it does end with a ?
  23. pingu

    pingu Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And I also find disgusting that the Russian federation isn't doing anything about this. It's impossible they don't know about Morozov's behaviour, and the fact that they don't do anyting to change this situation simply disgusts me. Btw I don't know how is the Russian law about this, but in Italy if you sleep with your patient/student/athete, it's considered rape.
  24. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    You mean in Italy, if a university teacher is sleeping with a university student, it's rape? And I can't remember any athlete in Italy, but cases of coaches going out with the athlete they train or even marrying them is hardly uncommon :shuffle:

    I'm not saying that it's an ideal situation btw, and yes, a coach/ student relationships poses ethical issues
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  25. care bear

    care bear Active Member

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    I think Mr. Morozov is considering by the Russian Fed as savior of the Russian figure skating, so he has got something like Carte blanche.
  26. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    You mean a history student dating a physics lecturer never taking physics? I doubt it would be considered anything if the student is above a certain age. I think pingu meant a lecturer who is dating HIS/HER student while the student is taking HIS/HER class.
    You mean recently? I can't remember any except for Morozov. Or you mean back in Mishina/Mishin or Moskvina/Moskvin times?
  27. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    I still don't see how that would qualify as statutory rape, as long as we are talking adults :huh: (again, as far as morality goes, it a whole other issue)

    I'm thinking all sports ;)
  28. fsfan22

    fsfan22 New Member

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  29. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    I don't really see how that particular step sequence is an example of excessive - I thought it was brilliantly choregoraphed, at a time when under IJS you had to still attempt to do the steps in a pattern (that at least in this case was recognisably circular unlike the straighline ones of its time) and get all complexity for levels. I think step sequences take too long under IJS but this was just brilliant IMO.
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  30. pingu

    pingu Well-Known Member

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    I mean that if a doctor/coach/teacher is sleeping with his/her patient/pupil/student, the patient/pupil/student has the right to report it as rape, because they are in a situation of psychological dependance towards their doctor/coach/teacher.
    I am not saying that if a 30 year old teacher is sleeping with his 20 year old student it's a rape, but the student has the right to go to the police/whatever else and say that that person used his teacher authority to sleep with her. I hope it's clear now, I don't know the exact English terms for explaining this so I hope I have been clear enough.
  31. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    His serial cheating is a big part. I don't think it's just about getting involved with students, but the fact that he or the student is often married. ;) He was supposedly married, and his wife pregnant, when he got involved with Shae-Lynn. Then while married to Shae-Lynn, had an affair with Grushina, while coaching her and her husband. Kind of awkward. :lol: With that said, I don't like how others like Zhulin seem to get more of a pass for doing similar things (cheating on Usova with Navka and Grishuk, and I'm pretty sure Mikhailova was still in juniors when he started dating her and I believe he was still married to Navka too). I think Morozov's generally creepy personality and his racist comments make people less inclined to like him.

    My main skating issue with him is as an ice dance coach/choreographer. With the singles and pairs, yeah, he mostly sucks, but not always, and he is hardly the only one choreographing empty programs. I have higher standards for dance. So many of his dances were carbon copies of previous ones. GrushGons 2005 FD ripped off L&T's Air/Storm and their 2006 FD ripped of G&P and N&K's The Feeling Begins. GregPets 2006 FD was a ripoff of A&P's Romeo & Juliet. I'm not saying you can never use the same music as another team, but those dances included similar music cuts, choreography, and costumes. It was just lazy.

    And it's not much better when he tries to be original. B&K's 2003 FD was like a parody of Russian ice dance, but not meant to be. Then there was I&K's Ave Maria where they waited to reveal it (going so far as to skate it to different music at the Russian test skate) because it was so original... and, well, let's just say there was a reason noone has used it before. ;) And then this year, outdoing himself with Ghost... I mean, they literally have the words "I'm talking to YOU, esse!" in their FD! I just can't!
  32. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    First thought when I saw the thread title: "That's gonna be the shortest thread in FSU history." :lol:
  33. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

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    ROTFL, I clicked mostly because I was thinking "How on Earth is that thread two pages?"
  34. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

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    Zhulin and Tatiana Navka
    Zhulin with Natalia Mikhailova :slinkaway
    :p

    Truth must be said, that as far as I remember Navka and Zhulin started to date before he became her coach. But he was indeed Mikhailova's coach when they started dating.
    Tatiana Malinina was also coached by her boyfriend at some point. I believe he used to compete in singles as well but would coach Malinina.
  35. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Vassiliev also dated two students - Totmianina and Mukhortova.

    Then there was Angela Nikodinev coaching Ivan Dinev, Contesti and Chiper being coached by their wives... but in those cases I am not sure if the romantic relationship began before the coaching one, and anyway, they are all similar in age so you don't get the impression one has authority and influence over the other.
  36. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

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    Wasn't Michael Weiss married with his choreographer?

    Anyway, I do like some of Morozov's work. One thing in which he seems to excel is in giving confidence to his students.
  37. JasperBoy

    JasperBoy Well-Known Member

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    Four words....he hurt our Shae. That is all.
    Norlite and (deleted member) like this.
  38. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't this supposed to be a cheer thread? I always thought it was meant to point out the positives.

    Normally if there is a cheer thread about a skater I don't care for, I leave it alone.
  39. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    I think most people's posts are in reply to the OP which specifically ask people why they don't like (or hate) Morozov ;)
  40. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    If his girlfriends are at the age of consent his daughter's age is irrelevant. I myself don't find the sight of much older men with much younger women (or much older women with much younger men for that matter) very palatable but Morosov is not exactly a senior citizen just yet-and what if he were? Who are we to judge if a younger woman wants to be with him? Thus far his dalliances aren't criminal as far as anyone knows. Just morally a put off I suppose. And as someone upthread pointed out, the age of consent in Russia is 16 - not 18 which is more or less the standard in the States.

    I've enjoyed Morosov's choreography in the past for skaters like Yagudin, Cohen and Ando too. Not enamored of his current work but then I'm not much enamored of most choreography under the current COP. It has to be hard for most choreographers under such constraints. There was much more freedom under 6.0.

    As to the man-I don't hate him per se. I guess I could say I don't care one way or another for him.

    OT, but I never gave Zhulin a pass. I think he was a real jerk towards Maia. He gave his wedding ring to Grishuk at one point while still married to Usova. Such an in-your-face move designed to hurt Maia was and is reprehensible. No wonder Usova punched Grishuk in the face. I'm not sure I wouldn't either if she were to flaunt her affair with my husband in such an outrageous manner. If Zhulin didn't love Maia anymore fine but he might have divorced her first before cheating on her and allowing Grishuk to rub her affair with Zhulin in Usova's face. No class.

    That being said-I think Zhulin and Usova's "Four Seasons" FD is one of the greatest Ice Dance masterpieces EVER. :swoon: Zhulin's crappy behavior off-ice has never changed my opinion on that score!
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013