Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by cholla, Oct 7, 2012.
he will probably find Claude Péri at Bercy, she was always along Katya Krier at Nats.
There is a short news from the local TV that appeared recently as Brian was doing a gala near Poitiers.
He explained that he trained alone recently, that was good on one hand as he could have an overview of the situation, but on the other hand he needs someone that pushes him.
He left Champigny and Annick (with whom he is still in good terms), as he said there was not enough training and that it was not enough precise technically. The French fed wanted him to go train abroad, but he wants to stick to France where he believes they are good coaches.
From D. Gailhaguet's word (he was at the gala), Brian will train in Bercy until Euros , and then 'we'll see'. The journalist ends saying Brian wants to go to Zagreb but the fed is still not so willing to.
I assume this means "we want to make sure he's not in embarrassing form but we know he's better than any alternative"? Sort of like the test skate before 2010 Worlds?
Why anyone would think that Joubert might be persuaded to train abroad after having resisted it for his entire career is beyond me. But really, what a mess.
You're all asking for too much - he's survived SEVERAL WEEKS in Paris (which is a wooping two hours by train from Poitiers): for him, it must have been like training abroad
That being said, when was the last season when there hasn't been drama of some sort around Brian, and he still manages to get some interesting results in any given season (I know he didn't medal at Nice, but coming 4th given the level of some of the performances we got there wasn't too shabby either....)?
With all of his experience, Brian should have been able to train mostly on his own, at least for a little while, even if the situation is not ideal and Brian isn't exactly known for being the most rigorous skater in his approach to training What I find more worrying is that on top of this, he changed his FS. It's the cumulation of having no coach AND having to work on a new program that may just prove to be too much for him to be ready by next week
On top of that his Inception program looked both more interesting and CoP friendly than pretty much everything he's had so far so I just hope his new Gladiator program will be as well. Right now he's got little chance to medal at Worlds or at Sochi unless the favorites crumble technically while he skates clean (which could happen - I mean stranger things have happened at the Olympics ) because he just doesn't measure up in PCs. Unless he can show a program at Euros and/ or Worlds that will show him in a favorable light in this regard, there's little chance of his PCs then going up next season: even if he has two brilliant programs then, we know it usually takes the judges a while to adjust PCs up accordingly....
Oh well, we'll know soon enough if he can go to Euros. I just hope they really won't send him if he's half ready, because that would serve no purpose whatsoever
"He left Champigny and Annick (with whom he is still in good terms), as he said there was not enough training and that it was not enough precise technically. The French fed wanted him to go train abroad, but he wants to stick to France where he believes they are good coaches."
There are some contradictions here from Joubert. He thinks that Annick Dumont is not precise enough technically, which actually means that he doesn't consider her as a good coach. But he is still in good term with her ? Huh ? I mean, can you say to everyone including the concerned person that she is a bad professional whom he doesn't respect as a coach, and say "hey, I like you, ok ? I'm leaving you because you are a bad coach but we're still friends." That just can't be, except if everyone is being hypocrit !
At the same time, and having said that he was under bad coaching in France, he refuses to move to another country because in France there are good coaches. But Brian, you have been spending the last 10 years saying that your coaches in France were bad. Except Guyon (even her got her part of critics from Joubert when he left her, but not as much critic as his other coaches). Can't he say that he wants to be trained only by Guyon and find an arrangement with her around Poitier's area ? He could make an agreement with her and pay coaching fees to her directly.
Ok the French fed pressures him to join training national centers in Paris, but he knows in advance that he won't like it (he didn't get introduced to Dumont in 2012...), so why accept and leave everything right away at the worst time of the season ?
What does he want ? Do everything he wants under the French Fed sponsoring ? But if he wants the free coaching he must accept the conditions, and being sent to USA is not the worst thing in life !
Having said that, what I don't really get is why the French fed would have the money to send Joubert train in USA (which is not exactly an economic option) and would be unable to pay for Guyon's coaching in France.
Either you want the advantages (sponsoring) and you accept conditions, or you don't and you finance your own choices. After all Joubert's training is paid by public fundings. If it is to do nothing with that and throw away everything that is given to him, he should just leave his place and allow other skaters to get the money they need to reach the top.
It might be difficult for him to take his pet snakes with him to another country. lol I wonder if the life-threatening illness he experienced at 11, when one of his kidneys was removed, is something he hasn't ever worked through and causes him to want to be near home.
He was 11 months old then - i think he can barely remember that time
I don't think it's necessarily contradictory. For one thing, Joubert wants to continue working with Guyon, but due to the renovation of the Poitiers rink this is not a real option at the moment. Guyon has kids and probably doesn't wish to relocate. He also parted on good terms from Laurent Depouilly in 2010, and his problems with Simond were AFAIK at a personal level. Sometimes people's personalities don't mesh or things don't work over time, as in any relationship - and Joubert, by his own admission, is not the easiest person to work with. I suspect this is one reason why he might like working with Guyon - she's been his coach since childhood and knows how to get through to him.
As Malgosia noted, he was a baby at the time. However, I am sure the medical problems he had and his being the youngest child would have affected how he was treated within the family and might account for what we're seeing.
Joubert has a lot of pets, not just the snakes - he's definitely an animal lover. I think it would be difficult for him to leave them all behind for an extended period of time.
This is actually the problem, he is not easy to work with and himself has difficulties to adapt. As for the Poitier rink's issue, there are other rinks around, and if he really wants to organize training with Guyon he can do so. Actually Joubert trained alone in December at a rink in Poitier's area. He could agree with guyon to go together to the rink and train there.
What can he do and the French fed do if the athlete seems to desagree with everything that is possible and offer to him ? At the end he is the one to be penalized, and at almost 30 he should understand that he must take his destiny in hand.
Perhaps, and it's all a matter of choice. If he prefers to stay close to his pets rather than put his energy a year or two in order to win an olympic medal, then good for him, but in that case he can't blame anyone else other than himself if he fails. Yagudin or Lysacek, to mention the olympic gold medalists, did what they had to do to win, I doubt they had difficulties to choose between their comfort at home vs the olympic goal.
My understanding is that nearby rinks were considered (e.g. Niort) but they couldn't find any long-term options with enough ice time. The rink he was commuting to is 90 minutes away, which would be pretty exhausting for the skater and the coach over time. And again, it might have been a good solution for Joubert but not for Guyon, who has a family that she presumably wants to spend time with.
Or maybe Joubert figures that there are no guarantees that moving to North America will give him an extra boost, and prefers to make decisions based on his personal life and not just his professional life. I think that's actually a pretty healthy approach.
And indeed, going to North America is not always the best idea. Carolina Kostner tried training with Frank Carroll, it was a disaster, but she's had nothing but success since returning to Oberstdorf. Moving to Toronto has not been a miraculous fix for what ailed Tomas Verner. Joubert has had really good results despite staying in France his entire career and even though he was not considered the most talented skater in the field for much of it. So maybe he's doing something right after all.
The problem is not that there is possible constraints to Joubert's training, but the fact that he doesn't accept any solution proposed to him.
For the rink in Poitier : he knew in advance that the rink would close, so he had to know that a back up solution would be needed. Either he could organise something with Guyon, or leave to some other place. He didn't organise anything with Guyon, he didn't anticipate a move to whatever place. So eventually he was asked to come to Paris to train in the national centers. He didn't like it and left. He was offered to skate abroad, he refused. What can be done for someone who doesn't seem to adapt to anything that is possible for him ? Apparently he wants to train with Guyon only. In that case he should have organised that option in advance.
As for the training in the USA, it might have not been the right solution for some skaters, but it happened to be the right solution for many other skaters. Options may work for some people and dysfonction for others, this is life and that doesn't mean that no one should try just because it happened not to be perfect for some people. All the big names in figure skating had to make a move or some sacrifices at some point in their career, this is part of the high level training, going where the experts are and try options that are not comfortable for what is usually a short period in a lifetime.
The reports around the time of the closing of the Poitiers rink indicated that Joubert (or possibly, Maman Joubert) tried to find a nearby solution that would allow him to continue working with Guyon, but was unable to find one - but not for lack of trying. At which point he agreed to move to Paris, which I believe was suggested by the FFSG. This did not work out, and I understand why at this point in his career he doesn't want to make a major change that is by no means guaranteed to get him great results. Not everyone wants to pick up and move away for training and coaching; some skaters never left their childhood coaches and rinks, and managed just fine. Others needed multiple coaching changes to find the right fit. There are no guarantees, so skaters should decide based on whatever considerations they (and their federations, in some cases) deem appropriate. Note that Joubert first achieved senior success while training with Guyon in Poitiers, and won Worlds while training in Poitiers with Simond, who is hardly a big name coach.
Different athletes sacrifice different things for their careers: moving for training, postponing schooling, long-distance relationships, competing while ill or injured, putting off starting a family, etc. I don't think there's any point in judging skaters based on which of these sacrifices they are or aren't willing to make at different points in their careers. The results are what matters
Guyon accepted a coaching job in Cognac, but only for 2 days a week. Cognac is probably a 2 hour drive from Poitiers, so she is going to spend 8 hour a week in a car for that part-time job.
Maybe that is what Joubert tried to negotiate...2 days with Guyon and the rest in Paris.
Maybe he was an overprotected child as a result of his illness.
Maybe he was or maybe he wasn't. We don't know and it's not relevant either.
Nathalie Pechalat/Fabian Bourzat have withdrawn from Europeans. They have been removed from the entry list already. Apparently Fabian got injured. Further details should be available soon. This is too bad. :-(
This is awful news! I hope it's not anything too serious... I'd really been looking forward to seeing them go for a third consecutive title.
I hope Carron/Jones can skate well enough to qualify two slots for next season.
Such sad news. This is really dejectory. I too hope that it's not serious, and that they will be able to compete at Worlds, or, at least, that everything will be allright with Fabian.
Probably it's not good to speak about this now - still, on the one hand, it's an opportunity for either Bobrova/Soloviev, or Cappellini/Lanotte to become European champions. On the other hand, it most likely won't feel like such a big feat to them (especially, for Bobrova/Soloviev if they win) without Nathalie and Fabian there.
Now there was a press release from the French Federation, and it is a rupture of the adductor in his right leg, suffered January 9. They hope to be ready for Worlds and Nathalie plans to attend Euros:
Dans le cadre de leur préparation intensive à Détroit (USA) pour les Championnats d’Europe qui débutent dans 6 jours à Zagreb, en Croatie, Fabian BOURZAT s’est blessé, le 9 janvier dernier, à la jambe droite et le diagnostic est le suivant : déchirure de l’adducteur. Il poursuivra ses séances de réathlétisation à Lyon, dès la semaine prochaine.
La participation des doubles champions d’Europe et médaillés de bronze aux Mondiaux 2012 à Nice, aux Championnats du Monde, qui se dérouleront des 13 au 17 mars prochains au Canada, n’est pas compromise. Leur détermination reste intacte.
La présence de Nathalie PECHALAT en capitaine de l’Equipe de France est prévue à Zagreb
Thanks. Actually, "rupture" sounds quite bad (at least to an unknowing person like me), but if they hope to be ready for Worlds, then it's not so terrible. Good to know that.
I don't think that should be a huge problem for them- here's the likely top 11 in order of their ISU SB. It is too bad that Papadakis/Cizeron can't compete here but I imagine its a lot to have all those different programs ready.
165.64 Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE ITA
161.34 Riazanova/Tkachenko RUS
159.95 Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV RUS
158.46 Elena ILINYKH / Nikita KATSALAPOV RUS
147.47 Carron/Jones FRA
142.96 Heekin-Canedy/Dun UKR
141.22 Kolbe/Caruso GER
140.54 Nelli ZHIGANSHINA / Alexander GAZSI GER
140.30 Julia ZLOBINA / Alexei SITNIKOV AZE
137.58 Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI ITA
126.66 Penny COOMES / Nicholas BUCKLAND GBR
News article about Nathalie et Fabian: http://www.lequipe.fr/Patinage-artistique/Actualites/Pechalat-bourzat-forfait/343216
Was it at NRW Trophy? I must say, I don't quite trust those results.
Also, I think Riazanova/Tkachenko's or any other team's results at the Golden Spin of Zagreb can't be trusted as something indicating to their possible marks at Euros. The results of ice dancers were obviously very much inflated there.
Really bad news. P/B were my highlight at Europeans in the ice dance event.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for Fabian's abductor to heal quickly and for him and Nathalie to come back strong for the World Championships.
Actually 'déchirure' means torn muscle. so not that bad, even though still bad :-/
ETA : actually it's a 'partially torn muscle'.
Nathalie Péchalat and Fabian Bourzat had to withdraw from the European Championships in Zagreb which will begin next Wednesday, due to an injury to an adductor for Fabian
Two times European Champions, the ice dancers Nathalie Péchalat and Fabian Bourzat will not defend their title next week in Zagreb (23 to 26 January): this Thursday evening, the French Ice Sports Federation has announced, through a press release, that the French leaders had to withdraw
Nathalie was crying
On January 9, during a training session in Detroit, USA, Fabian Bourzat incured a partial tear of the adductor in the right leg. After a last test to skate in the morning, the World bronze medalists had to resign themselves to give up on this competition they hold very dear. "Nathalie was crying" admitted their Italian coach, Pasquale Camerlengo.
Probably unable to skate until the end of the month, Fabian Bourzat will do a part of his reathletisation next week in Lyon, while his partner will go to Zagreb in her capacity of captain of the French team
An interview of Véronique Guyon here (in French) :
Rapidly, she says she will be ok to train Brian again, but under certain conditions, not to repeat mistakes done in the past. She did not talk to him recently (last time was 2 weeks ago), so she does not know his state of mind.
She thinks changing the LP is not a good idea.
There are also short words from D. Gailhaguet (a repeat from what he said at the gala in Niort recently), Brian was in training sessions at Bercy before Euros (like every year, all skaters meet in Bercy), and Brian had 'some problems'. His shape should be evaluated again a week later, which is now this week, and as it's already thurday evening it's propbably already done. We may know more in the very near future then.
Ugh, how awful. Even if he heals in time for worlds, they're going to lose so much training time.
There will be a great battle now for the European title between Bobrova, Ilinykh, and Cappellini, but it's a shame it will to come at such a price.