Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Feb 19, 2013.
This is pure speculation.
For sure I do not believe it is all Rockne that is to blame for the split I believe that it takes two...on that account and it could be that because of that particular partnership he had to think as one and began what I see as a bad habit in focusing on himself...maybe out of necessity who knows?. I am not saying he did not have a reason to start that mode of thinking just that I believe that Tai is right it affects a partnership in the beginning and it is something that should be emphasized "team" right from the start..maybe it had an impact on the M/B partnership too...?? not sure. I also believe that the universe has a plan and it doesn't always coinside with what we think... about something and I hate to say it but usually "there is a reason for everything". So maybe this is his perfect partner?...sometimes it is a journey. Just thought Tai's insight was interesting......
My comments, reese, are based on quotes by both Rockne and Mary Beth in printed articles; on their interaction in competition; on their comments and interaction in interviews throughout their partnership; and on mutually supportive quotes by Rockne and Mary Beth after their split. So as I said, on the surface Rockne seemed patient, obviously willing to help an inexperienced partner, and supportive leading up to and after their split. Rockne's encouragement and support is my perception, and it's based on more than pure speculation.
Well, figureit, if that's the case, it seems then that both Lindsay and Rockne are guilty of not "emphasizing 'team' right from the start," as per the phrasing of comments by both of them in the IceNetwork article. Truly, let's give Rockne and Lindsay a couple of months to at least begin to gel.
I agree it is in articles and in interviews in quotes so it came form them...that puts it beyond speculation...
whether or not they meant what they said or were just being politically correct is another matter...do you have some insight that is more or less? Why would you say it is speculation?? Please share Reese just curious..
.and I also agree we are discussing the new pairing of D/B but giving them time and letting them gel is always expected....and truly the more good pairs we have in the US the better!
After the season in which Rockne had hernia problems for at least some of it and jumped kinda inconsistently (08-09), he became plenty solid with 3S. With Keauna, 3S was their "main triple" (3S-2T in LP) and occasionally they did 3T as a second triple (not consistent, but again, he was injured for at least some of that stretch). They ended up doing 2As instead, which were fine.
With Mary Beth, it was the opposite-- 3T was their "main triple" (3T-2T in LP), and Rockne was fine with it then. And then they briefly tried 3S as the second triple, but it didn't work out (he actually landed them fine in competition; it was more of a problem for her with everything else going on in the program, plus they didn't have good unison on them). They switched to 2A, and he rarely messes up that jump.
Overall, Rockne is good with 3T & 3S. And 2A. I've never heard of him doing a 3Lo at any point in time, and I'm thinking all the way back to when he competed as a novice man. I could be remembering incorrectly, but I don't think so. I know Lindsay and Themi were quite good at 3Lo. In recent years Rockne would practice 3F, but that obviously never made it into a program.
So you are literally basing it on prepared remarks for press releases, kiss and cry interactions and on-air tv interviews.
I don't think Rockne is a bad person, but I do think his ego *can* make him difficult to work with. Maybe this Davis situation will be different; I don't know. I think the pressure of skating with The Rockne Brubaker was very difficult for Mary Beth.
I think that all sides now realize that this might be the last great chance.
It sounds like Tai generally is good at dishing out 'tough love' when necessary. I wonder if she ever considered coaching.
Yes, I don't recall ever hearing Tai speak about a desire to coach, but she definitely has offered to be of service to USFS in working with, i.e., mentoring U.S. pairs. I believe that Tai might have been called in to mentor Keauna and Rockne via her connection with Mr. Nicks. I don't specifically recall the details, but Tai did discuss her mentoring relationship with Rockne and Keauna during her podcast interview with manleywoman in June 2009:
And, during Tai's recent Skating Lesson podcast interview with Jenny and Dave, Tai also mentioned her desire to be of service to U.S. pairs in whatever capacity she could be of most benefit.
Glad to hear you don't think Rockne is a bad person, whatever your definition of a "bad person" happens to be. Hmmm, unless fans happen to be gossipy skating rink Moms or other skating world insiders (which I am not), I think following skaters via their Twitter and Facebook, on television, in online videos and interviews, print articles and IN features is about the only way to get to know favorite athletes, outside of off-chance/ rare opportunities to meet them in person at their training rink or at events and public appearances (and obtaining off-the-cuff impressions). Unless, of course, a fan with dish is an obsessed stalker who bugs skaters' relatives, waylays skating know-it-all Moms, tracks down skaters in bathrooms, sets up wire taps in hotel rooms, hacks emails and cell phone calls and texts, and scours wastebaskets.
But, apparently you have more intimate knowledge about Rockne's ego than I do, reese. However, unless you do know Rockne personally, I wonder how you arrived at your conclusions. In any case, every human being has an ego (not to mention vanity and pride). It's only the very rare human who has the ability to keep their ego under control at all times.
And what is this about The Rockne Brubaker. I mean, he's obviously a very talented male pair skater with porny good looks, but it's not like he's the pair skater version of Patrick Chan, or is he???
Hopefully, Rockne's brother Collin doesn't have the same "ego gone wild" gene. And pardon me for feeling skeptical that it was largely Rockne's ego, or Rockne's large ego that weighed so heavily upon both Keauna and Mary Beth thus causing those respective splits/ break-ups. As the years pass by and the dust settles, I wonder whether there will be a tell-all? Has anyone informed Stefania?
Disclaimer: Don't mind my sarcasm, it's just my ego responding.
^^ What I suspect has been the issue with Rockne's most recent partners....KM and MBM...has very little to do with Rockne's ego. I think it is more of a difference in maturity, lack of.... or differences in common goals and the way in which those goals were approached, and quite often that is reflective of work ethic, maturity, life experiences. I think there was too much of a age difference, esp with MBM, and with Keauna....it was perhaps a change in her life goals. After not qualifying for Vancouver, I think the idea of working another 4 years towards Socchi was not in her life plan.
Oh aftershocks, have you ever met a reply to which you didn't overreact? If so, I've yet to see it here or in any other thread. My comment was based on a first-hand, on-site account of Rockne during his last year skating w/ MBM (hence the icon), but I will defer to your careful consideration of tweets and tv interviews.
^^ What an overreaction. No need to defer either. And my perceptions are not based on tweets in any case, just what I initially mentioned.
BCooper's perceptions make more sense to me than that of your first-hand, on-site account ...
Holy Smokes, thanks for finding this micronrd!
They are going to literally R-O-C-K!!!!
^^ To my eyes, they certainly rock in that Enticement performance with Felicia Beck! Good luck to Rockne and Lindsay.
Just stop replying to her. Jesus Christ.
It doesn't help that cause when the article has a picture of him only.
Not knowing Rockne personally, I have no idea whether he has a big ego or puts undue pressure on his partners. Having said that, he seemed to have a very successful junior career with Mariel Miller that only ended because she got bit by the puberty bug. I also thought that there were way too many outside expectations about his partnership with Keauna. Having seen her skate with other partners, I always had doubts about her ability to master senior-level pair skills. I don't know what happened with MBM but I generally dislike huge age-gaps between pairs skaters, I didn't help that she looked much younger than her stated age.
MBM has always struggled with the pressure in competitions and generally looked miserable. It wasn't very surprising to see her move on.
On the main article not the front announcement I went back and looked and they split screened like D/C and Y/R just curious after you said this. You are correct..on the main article they only put him and on the main articles of D/C and Y/R it was split screen with new partners.....
Not everyone has the fortitude and desire to go to the Olympics. Just because Keauna and Mary Beth called it quits does not mean that there is something wrong with Rockne (or with them). On the contrary, Rockne has many admirable traits and seems to be a genuinely nice guy. Clearly MBM did not want to pursue it and perhaps was bothered by the intense pressure of the situation. She has completely dropped out of sight since leaving the partnership - is she skating now at all? Keauna lost her desire to skate anymore, was fed up with the training regimen and diet restrictions, and just wanted to be a normal teenager. Nothing wrong with that.
It is extremely important that both partners on a pair team share the same goals. If Lindsay has the same drive and passion as Rockne to strive for an Olympic spot, then I believe the team has a good chance to succeed. They will both be willing to put in the work necessary to achieve their goals.
USFSA has always had a love affair with Rockne..." A good looking guy that's straight!" Notice how they always plaster his face at Nationals even when he is not competing...and the ridiculous " Ryan Bradley / Rockney bromance promo video played during ice cuts at Nats...
IMO the girl he skates with is secondary...they just want him in the game for promotion.
Keauna definetly did! I think she was beyond devestated when they didn't make it- they were the by far pairs favorite that year, and in Coke Olympic spots! I really think that contributed to her losing her desire to skate.
I think if he had found a long term partner right after Keauna left, Rockne may have been the US's great hope. But I think it has been too long since he was the top pairs guy to throw all the eggs into that basket. I'd love for him and Lindsay to do well, but we'll see. Kind of the same with Caitlyn- when she lost her partner, I think she was the best pairs girl in the US, but I really don't know where she is now. Past success can't be extrapolated into future results.
Keauna only had one other partner before Rockne, and that was at 10 yrs old. But I agree that there were too many immediate expectations surrounding that pairing. Both of them were publicly stating very early in their partnership (she was barely 15 at the time) that their their goal was to win a medal at their first Worlds, and it made me cringe. They were young and seemed rather oblivious to the fact that the rise to the top in pairs isn't smooth sailing and not quick, no matter how good you think you are or how good your results have been. Making bold public goals isn't really good at any stage of one's career.
So I wasn't really surprised that Keauna seemed overwhelmed by the pressure to succeed immediately (and deal with puberty while skating with someone that short). It didn't help that they were showered with endorsement deals before 2010. 2010 was obviously devastating to her... It's a shame to feel like you failed so badly in only your 3rd year of skating Sr pairs.
I thought with Mary Beth, it might help that they didn't have immediate success, that they had some very rough results in their first int'l competitions. She also of course needed time to learn about pairs. But the whole thing was still very rushed and there was still a ton of pressure. Rockne publicly stated he wanted them to make the World team in their first season (by Nationals, he seemed to have modified that goal, but still...). He even pushed to get them selected for Skate America three weeks into that partnership-- they weren't even doing throw triples at the time, and Marley had done less than 3 months of pair skating in her whole life Who even knew what the pairing would actually be like, but Rockne wanted to go to Skate America, so they threw together programs in a week and had USFS monitor them at a local competition a week or so later (where USFS told him the obvious that they were not ready). I remember thinking it was kind of nuts.
And then for this season, there was pressure to increase the difficulty in their programs despite them not being all that consistent the previous year. So I wasn't surprised Marley was having trouble with the pressure.
Rockne is very good and he knows it. No matter how he treats his partners, there's still added pressure to skate with him, I feel.
^Well, Lindsay has experienced ups and downs with 2 partners and she is older. It's been stated before in this thread, but I think that will help.
Aren't most pair guys straight?
Yup, it might help
I agree with madms and BCoopers thoughtful views expressed in their posts. Pair relationships and break-ups involve a lot of different factors. IMO, problems and break-ups generally should not be looked at in simple black and white terms, or considered to be the fault of one partners ego. Its usually a lot more complicated than that.
I think that Mary Beth did a very good job learning pair skills and she had notable success with Rockne, so they were both weathering the pressures. They were a good team with the potential to become even better, so doom and gloom post mortems are kind of OTT. Theres no reason to jump to all kinds of conclusions and assess blame on one partner or the other re either Keauna and Rockne, or Mary Beth and Rockne. Mary Beth never gave specific reasons why she decided to stop skating, and thats her right. It probably had more to do with her desire as a young person who is still maturing emotionally, to just do something else with her life.
Having that desire is not unusual, and its one of the reasons why a lot of break-ups happen in figure skating. For example, young ice dancers, Jamie Silverstein and Justin Pekarek, had great success as juniors and they appeared to be having a wonderful start to their senior career when they broke up, apparently after Justin decided he wanted to do something else with his life. It was a difficult adjustment for Jamie who was also battling eating disorders, but she eventually came back to win a bronze medal at U.S. Nats with Ryan OMeara, and go to the 2006 Olympics. Jamie left skating again to reassess what she wanted to do with her life, and she is now The Grinning Yogi in Seattle, Washington.
I hope that Mary Beth and Keauna are feeling satisfied and happy with what they were able to accomplish in their skating careers and that they are both enjoying what they are doing now. No matter how difficult the emotions surrounding their decisions to break-up with Rockne and move on with their lives, they both seem to have been able to deal with their respective splits and get past it. One thing that might still be irksome to them both is to know that their former partnerships with Rockne are constantly being examined and gossiped about on skating message boards. So maybe fans (including myself) need to just get past it too, and appreciate the positives of those partnerships.
I would imagine that Rockne and Lindsay both have learned a great deal from their former partnerships and that they each are looking ahead with anticipation to the prospect of building a positive and successful pairs relationship on the ice. Good luck to them.
I'm sure they will focus on what's in front of them and not worry so much about achieving world peace.
The Felicia Beck Enticement video is worth taking second, third, and fourth looks too.
I am not all that enthusiastic about the news of this pairing. Perception is EVERYTHING in FS judging, and the judges WILL perceive that this is a team that got together because of each person's separate goals to go to an Olympics, that these were skaters getting DESPARATE. They WILL perceive that Lindsay LOOKS overweight and heavy compared to the top pair skating women in the world. They WILL perceive that he is a SMALL pair skater making the team look mis-matched. They WILL perceive that there is a connection missing between the skaters found in the great teams. They WILL perceive the mediocre techniques.
He looks small, she looks too big, she is not an exciting skater or perfomer, and, really, neither is he. He is all facial looks and little substance in regard to being a pair skater on a world-class level. This team will go NO WHERE FAST internationally. It is just my opinion as a former pair skater.
Sorry, this news just isn't inspiring in any way for US figure skating. I make no apologies to anyone who doesn't like my opinion.
I have had several personal interactions with Rockne over the last few years and, by my observations, he is extremely hard-working, patient and just a sweetheart. He was extraordinarily patient with MaryBeth (in a good way- very encouraging and really wanting to work through feelings of competitive pressure). And as far as I can tell- USFS loved them. I see Lindsay as far more mature than MBM, is athletic (don't think she looks overweight), and I think/hope they will be terrific. And while Rockne does want to go to the Olympics, I also think he just loves to skate. There will definitely be a lot of competition, but here's hoping they have much success. Couldn't happen to a nicer, more talented person who has been through a lot, but has endured.
^^ Thanks dancefan17 for sharing your thoughts based on your personal interactions with Rockne! (Interesting how some other posters seem desperate to disparage Davis/ Brubaker)
IMO, Rock2 was on target with this post, which bears re-visiting:
In any case, as pointed out ad nauseum, Lindsay is not overweight -- she simply has a womanly shape. She is also very graceful, and she interprets music well. ITA with the below comments in regard to the way Rockne and Lindsay look together in the Felicia Beck-choreographed trio performance originally posted by micronrd on 2/21:
She's overweight like Jamie Sale was overweight from 2000 - 2002 - which is to say, NOT. AT. ALL.