Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Feb 19, 2013.
The euphoria has now officially ended! lol
Dean was arguably the star in T&D.
I always look at the hot guy in the pair anyway
I have a similar worry, although it's probably too early to worry since they really haven't started anything yet. Rockne will be the shortest partner Lindsay has ever had, and I worry a bit about the pressure there might be on her to get smaller for him. She has always been at a healthy adult weight with an athletic build and it would be disappointing if she was to struggle with weight pressures to try to get this partnership going quickly. Hopefully he's been in the weight room a lot even when he wasn't skating. He said a year or so ago that he dropped a lot of his muscle because Marley was so short that he felt he didn't need it. Well Lindsay of course is not only taller than Marley but has an actual adult build, so Rockne needs to be bulked up.
As for her lines vs his lines...the concerns are understandable. But if the option is to skate with Lindsay or not skate at all, which do you choose? At least she knows how Sr pairs works, is mature (including being past puberty issues), knows what Sr international competition is like, and hopefully won't freak out from skating with someone of Rockne's caliber.
I guess I'm missing a few things here. I don't find Lindsay's line to be all that bad. She looks like she achieves good extension on her lifts and good positions on the landings of her jumps. Also, Keauna was bigger than Lindsay at the end of M/B v 1.0's career together in 2010. They've also paired together earlier than most pairs who split post-Worlds, so they have even a little more time for the upcoming season to get used to each other.
I'm not proclaiming them no. 1 US pair, but I think they can do very well for themselves.
Now you're being reasonable and taking all the "fun" out of this. Much better if we have bipolar reactions from one page to the next .
It's hard for people to separate S/K's relationship from their partnership because their relationship is so in-your-face. But that's no reason to not support their partnership if they get some good results internationally. If they break up, so what. It would have lasted no less than most of our platonic U.S. partnerships.
I agree....I think they will be fine...I also agree that Rockne has to bulk up a lot and the emphasis should be on him getting stronger not on her getting thinner. Her lines are not all that bad...and her jump positions are decent too.I don't think you can compare her to Keauna given the artistry of one to the other....there was so much struggling in the beginning of Davis and Ludwig not sure if anyone knows why? The only time I saw a good performance was Nationals..and that was online not sure if anyone was in the stands that has a better comment on her lines and artistry cause it is clearer in person I think? ALso still curious as to what issues she had with Mark? HE seems like such an easy going guy that is concerning if there was issues they could not work through not sure if anyone has any inside info on that? and if they think it will effect her and Rockne's relationship???
..always interesting for sure
I was thinking that myself. In the paso doble from 1984, I always look at him. I don't see any reason I wouldn't watch Rockne most of the time.
He doesn't have a choice. He's very short for a pair skater.
Personally I think Rockne and Lindsay will be a good match physically. We'll see.
I was catching up on figure skating late last night and read about this pairing, and my very first thought was Tail Babilonia was right on the $, she called it first. And my second thought was Y E A H!!!!
Seriously, I think they are going to rock, she's a fab technical skater, has personality (love her & Ladwig's exhibition skate), and most importantly they actually LOOK like a pair (meaning two halves of a perfect whole) ~ same black hair, same build, same coloring, same style of skating, et al (they could pass for brother & sister) ~ and an added bonus is that she's the perfect height for Rockne (4'11" to his 5'9") and she already has had a ton of pairs experience (Rockne won't have to lose valuable time to teach her like he did with Mary Beth). And last but not least she's a grown woman at 20 yrs. old (not a little prepubescent girl). Oops, one more thing, they BOTH are looking at longevity...
I was watching her & Ladwig's FS on youtube and it shows a lot of promise, I can imagine Lindsay & Rockne skating a similar program. Of course all skaters are not perfect and can always grow, be it pointing toes, more stretch, better line, refinement, consistency, etc. And I expect with time Davis & Brubaker will as well.
By the way, I agree with the poster that said Lindsay Davis looks like Paula Abdul, especially when Paula was younger, like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEJCylX-m_A
Finally, CONGRATULATIONS to Rockne & Stefania on their upcoming nuptials, ahhhh, what a perfect pair they will make, especially if they were skating together, even their names Berton & Brubaker....
^^ Thanks for that early PaulaA vid -- she sure had some moves. I'd say there is a resemblance with Lindsay, uh aside from busts, perhaps.
Thanks tapdancer, NadineWhite, and others commenting with optimism and congratulations re Lindsay/ Rockne pairing! I think Lindsay is quite pretty as well as a proficient pairs partner, from what I've seen of her so far.
Good luck to Rockne and Lindsay -- can't wait to see what they come up with re programs. Congrats again also to Stefania and Rockne!!!
Especially after Rockne lost (gasp! ) to 12-year-old Junior champ Vincent Zhou in an impromptu push-up challenge at Nationals! http://youtube.com/watch?v=SBw3N4t6DQw (starting around the 4:30 mark)
No matter who Rockne was partnered with, I always watched Rockne!
Another good video to see by Felicia Beck a little over a year ago at the Champions Division https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF4SjCfl_tk
Um, Artur Dmitriev?
Rockne can skate to ANYTHING. He's totally compelling to watch.
There are otherRadford pairs that couldRadford benefit from really promoting the maleRadford partner as a meansRadford to elevating the pairRadford overall....
Thanks for posting the link to this November 2011 trio piece choreographed by Felicia Beck and featuring her, Rockne and Lindsay for the Artists Showcase choreo competition!
^^ Yes indeed, thanks so much. I didn't know that Rockne and Lindsay had ever skated together before, albeit in a trio performance. And, they are both friends of Felicia Beck's. Their work together obviously took place at a time when Rockne was partnered with Mary Beth. Was Lindsay no longer skating pairs at the time? When did she and Themi break-up? Did her break-up with Themi have something to do with injuries?
Anyway, that was a quite good performance of Felicia's choreo. Nothing blocky in it or about it either!
Also, might as well post some more videos, of Rockne and of Lindsay with their former partners. I see lovely skating by all the pairs in these videos, even if the video quality isn't great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRDStKNCyx4 Themi and Lindsay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AClvdHEZOc Themi and Lindsay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVGTdtSM6js Lindsay and Mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV1jjbkoI-o Lindsay and Mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgxIwaimbeM Rockne and Keauna
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peUgSqnkSj0 Rockne and Mary Beth
Only they'll split the moment they fail to make the Sochi team. ;P
(I do hope they make it over pony trekker/lumberjack, though)
Mark my words, people. Davis/Brubaker will wipe out poverty and hunger and bring about world peace.
Davis/ Brubaker are a new partnership and Sochi is only a year away. Plus there's bound to still be only two U.S. spots available for pairs. If D/ B are seriously thinking longevity and long term, they might have discussed shooting for Sochi, but more realistically are both aiming more toward 2018. A quickie mentality has not worked for U.S. pairs, nor I would doubt such an approach has worked for any pairs team.
As to your above comments, Really??? You don’t see Lindsay’s potential, “compared to Keauna.” Well, newsflash … Keauna quit eligible skating quite awhile ago. And, fyi, Marley/ Brubaker were doing very well together as a pair last season. They were in first place after the sp at 2012 Nationals, and took silver overall. Their split apparently had less to do with a poor physical match-up or physical age difference, than it had to do with Mary Beth’s own emotional growing pains and her desire to pursue something other than competitive pairs skating.
I don’t mean to slam you in the same way you seem to be knocking Lindsay, but what is it exactly that’s concerning you and some others so much??? Obviously, Lindsay’s already small enough for Rockne. She also matched up well with Mark Ladwig and with Themi Leftheris. And, how would you know whether or not she’s “always been at a healthy adult weight.” Personally, I don’t see her build as being any more or less athletic than Keauna’s or Nari Nam’s or Evora’s or Castelli’s, etc.
And what a dis of Themi, Mark, Lindsay, and Rockne too, with your last remark.
But isn’t it you who are doing all the focusing not they. I don’t see Lindsay as necessarily having a gymnast’s body. But, she is strong and athletic or she would never have gotten this far as a pairs skater. Female pairs skaters need to have a lot of core strength, and Lindsay surely has that.
As far as blocky, I don’t know what you mean by that. Lindsay is definitely a beauty though. As olympic notes, Lindsay’s line is not bad, and she does achieve good extension on her lifts and good positions on her throw jump landings. I would say that Lindsay has better line and extension than some other top ranked pairs ladies, both nationally and internationally. Of course, everyone has room for improvement. Working on improving is always part of the process.
Speaking of extensions, pretensions and body image stereotyping, here’s an example of someone who not only has amazing to-die-for extensions, but who also defies all that other crap. She uses every ounce of her body and her inner spirit to shine. Wanna call her blocky too? … Block THIS:
And please don’t say, well, she isn’t a figure skater. What the bada** lady in the above clips has, quite a few figure skaters could benefit from and aspire to acquire.
Personally, I think Lindsay has some amazing assets to build upon. I hope it all works out for Lindsay and Rockne together on the ice. Rock It with Rockne, Lindsay!
Not sure why you have to be "looking at" the girl for the team to be successful. Shouldn't you be looking at both of them equally?
We won't ask Alexei Urmanov what he thinks about Lindsay or Melanie's body! But the Urmanov way of thinking is very common in the dance world, especially in ballet. And pair judges are not that far ahead in that department.
You are talking about ladies with very muscular legs and normal body fat %. Obviously, pairs ladies have extremely low body fat % and that became the norm, so the others tend to stand out. I used to work with a nutritionist who would make ballerinas loose their muscular and bulky legs without losing their much needed strength.
As far as Lindsay's line, it is all relative. They are not bad, but she is being compared to skaters like Caitlin Y...and the difference is huge when they skate after another.
As stated before, Davis/Brubaker will end world hunger and bring about world peace! They have absolutely no weaknesses and will be the American version of G&G! All hail!
Well we all have our faves, obviously they aren't yours!
I didn't knock Lindsay in my post. Perhaps you are getting so defensive because you are affiliated with her in some way. In previous posts, you were even thanking people for congratulating this pairing. And if you don't have ties to her, how much sense does it make to have unwavering faith in a team that has been together for a week? Even the pair itself won't really know the characteristics of their team until they actually train together regularly. I didn't say I was overly concerned or thought this pair was doomed before I've even seen them. As we have repeatedly seen, pairs is very unpredictable, and I don't hype or bash teams that haven't even taken off yet.
How Lindsay matched up with the 6 footer Leftheris or the 5'10" Ladwig really doesn't matter...There are added challenges for pair guys who dip below 5'10". With quite a few pair girls looking at least somewhat emaciated, someone with Lindsay's build is highly refreshing in the sport. I don't want to see her have to drop weight for this. How did you interpret that as an insult?
My last comment was not intended to be a dis towards anyone. In fact, that entire sentence was referring to some of Lindsay's assets, so I'm not sure why you took it the wrong way.
Here is my last remark- "...and hopefully won't freak out from skating with someone of Rockne's caliber."
I'm referring to where Rockne has already been in the sport (I'm sure there was plenty of pressure in skating with Mark, too, especially because he's an Olympian.). There is naturally going to be additional pressure skating with someone who has won National titles several years ago, was one good competition away from making the last Olympic team with an old partner, and consequently seems to feel an extra burden to be competitive for an Oly berth NOW, and not wait until 2018. It wouldn't be far-fetched whatsoever to believe that Marley was at least somewhat affected by that burden and that it helped lead to her fleeing the sport all together (Rockne acknowledged she was suffering from pressure issues). All I said was that hopefully Lindsay would not be so negatively affected by the pressure to skate with Rockne. You'd be kidding yourself to believe there won't be added pressure there... Every time there's an article about Rockne he talks about his goal of this next Olympics. Most guys in new partnerships (Rockne was saying it before he even found a partner) would never put that type of statement out there, especially not this close to the Olys.
That dancer has probably done extensive ballet since she was a toddler. It would be great if pair skaters all did ballet regularly as youngsters, but a lot do not, and then they try to play catchup as they get older and rise up the levels of skating. I'm not speaking about Lindsay, just about pairs in general.
They will no doubt fall somewhere between "absolutely no weaknesses" and "no potential at all."
Must all discussions evolve into hyperbole and absolutes?
HYPERBOLE IS BRINGING DOWN THE NATION.
This is FSU, so of course!
I think the majority of fans posting in this thread are wishing Davis/Brubaker well as a first-year team and looking forward to seeing them make their competition debut later this summer.
Re-posting from the previous page in case it was missed:
Thanks for posting the link to this November 2011 trio piece choreographed by Felicia Beck and featuring her, Rockne and Lindsay for the Artists Showcase choreo competition!
There was never a USFS press release about Davis/Leftheris' split, which took place around late August 2011, right before the 2011-12 qualifying season registration deadline. Davis was partner-less during that season and teamed up with Ladwig around May 2012 - from this IN article excerpt: http://www.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120504&content_id=30367476&vkey=ice_news
You're missing the point. How can anyone know anything about a pairing that they haven't even seen? To make this pair your favorite before you've even seen them is a little .... intense to say the least.
IMO only of course.
That said, I'm looking forward to seeing them. I think the pairing has potential on paper so I'm excited to see if it pans out.
How will they do that if Gracie Gold does it first?!
You would think they would have the financing in place, before going ahead.
Why not? It's working very well for Chock/Bates.
I always watched John Zimmerman. And always will.
It was the crushed velvet onesie, wasn't it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5voLvFIVG0
IDK toddlj, sometimes it seems as if you have to either love ‘em or hate ‘em … there’s no middle ground. As others have opined, that’s FSU. Also, apparently, that phenomenon is a cultural trope these days. But seriously, I’m like some others who have posted their congratulations. I’m happy to see Rockne paired up with a new partner, and as a fan of Rockne and his former partners, I hope the best for Rockne and Lindsay, and I’m supportive of them both.
P.S. Stop trying to curb my enthusiasm. Don’t be a killjoy! I would’ve all-capped that last request, but I thought it would be too hyperbolic to do so.
Yes, that’s the meaning of a partnership. I think some posters were just happily referring to the fact of how good Rockne is to look at. I’m sure Stefania would agree.
And some people have seemed (perhaps unconsciously) intent on perceiving Lindsay in a negative way. Such perceptions will hopefully come to an end sooner rather than later.
Well, there is a video of Rockne and Lindsay skating together with Felicia Beck, posted earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF4SjCfl_tk Why not discuss this evidence?
Plus, many fans have watched Rockne for years and also know at least a little about Lindsay after her high profile pairing with Mark Ladwig this season. I haven’t seen anyone say that Davis/ Brubaker are already their favorite team. But I do see lots of positive congratulations and supportive comments in this thread, as well as some unfortunate negative comments.
For me, Marley/ Brubaker was my favorite U.S. team before they split up last year. So, I’m looking forward to seeing what Rockne and Lindsay bring to the ice as a new team (as I see you are too).
It doesn't seem to have done Savchenko & Szolkowy any harm.
I am not suggesting that Davis and Brubaker will be as good as Savchenko and Szolkowy. Only that the important thing is whether they and their coaches feel that they can skate together successfully, not how well her height and build theoretically match up with his.
I also watched John Zimmerman, and there are other partnerships in which I watched the guy, or both partners equally. I mean really, if you have a PSOTY in a partnership, or even a mere PSOTY candidate, you're not going to focus just on the lady, are you?
I thought Yuna already did it.
Nope, you got it all wrong, all you guys ... Kween did it first!
^^ You make an excellent porny point there, Zemgirl. Hopefully the poster with the unpronounceable name won't mind if I congratulate you for your wisdom and your 20/20 vision!
Why did you even bring up this weighty issue? It’s threatening to sink this lighthearted and carefree thread. How do you know Lindsay’s not at her normal weight? Why do you presume ”they will focus on Lindsay being pair-girl thin.” That has never been an issue mentioned in any article that I’ve seen discussing her partnerships. I dare to conjecture that your focus on weight is your own confounding bailiwick! Not a swear word, btw.
Perhaps your intent was not to knock or bash Lindsay, but that’s how I perceived your previous post. You referred to Lindsay’s body as “blocky,” and you seemed to be overly concerned with her weight. You contradicted yourself by saying you don’t like to talk about skaters’ bodies, then you proceeded to do just that. You’re also now saying that Lindsay’s build is highly refreshing, but that’s not what you said previously. If that’s what you now feel going forward, great! It is definitely a negative and ubiquitous fault in today’s culture to be uptight and stereotypical about all aspects of our own and others’ bodies. We all come in different shapes and sizes, and it’s a good thing to not be weighed down by cultural prejudices and unconsciously make overly negative references to athletes’ bodies. At least let’s make a belated New Year’s resolution to try to abstain from doing this you guys, and especially you, stj*******gym!
OTOH, if discussing (unconsciously) negative comments happens to lead to more conscious reflection and a change in attitude, that’s probably helpful. Lighthearted fun is one thing; negativity (conscious or unconscious) is a detriment toward world peace.
BTW, thanks for the compliment re your perception that I might be affiliated with Lindsay in some way. I’ve not met either Lindsay or Rockne personally, but it would be a pleasure do so, as indeed it would be to meet all U.S. pairs teams, and all my favorite pairs skaters from other countries too. It would be fun if we could all sit down, share a poutine together and compare notes on the secrets of staying together as a fs pair past one season. It’d be awesome if Tai and Randy could join us too!
As to your question: How much sense does it make to have unwavering faith? It seems that you attribute my supportive comments toward Rockne and Lindsay as proof of my having unwavering faith in their partnership. Well, no, I can’t say that I do at this point. However, in response to your question in general terms, I would ask you: How much sense does it make not to have unwavering faith in something or other these days? Didn’t you know that’s at the least gotta be the first step toward world peace!?
I’m glad you now feel after relaxing your own defensiveness and unintentional negativity, that Lindsay has some great assets. Still, I wonder why you think any skater would “freak out” by the prospect of skating with someone of good caliber. Obviously, Lindsay has some pretty good caliber herself, or she and Rockne would not have paired up. I’m sure they are both excited about skating together, and will work together on gelling as a team and not “freaking out” about each other’s caliber and the pressures of competition.
I think you were just pulling my leg when you said that’s your last remark on this topic. I wish it was, but I bet it isn’t.
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