New Kulik/Gordeeva skating center

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Kasey, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Ilia's jumping video: :swoon: Besides the jumping, Ilia also had excellent footwork and choreography (as a professional skater) as well. Katia's basic skills are nothing short of divine. I would love to take basic skating skill lessons from Ekaterina Gordeeva. :)
  2. Garden Kitty

    Garden Kitty Tranquillo

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    I wish them all the best. Ilia and Katia would be a wonderful coaching duo - each has a lovely combination of great technique and performance quality. Plus they both seem to really enjoy the sport and seem eager to share their enthusiasm for skating. That would be a very attractive combination for skaters of all ages and levels. I know Ilia has done a number of coaching seminars in the past, and the skaters have always seemed to enjoy them and found them beneficial.
  3. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    I don't see what the big issue is with the ice size.

    Yes, it is not Olympic or NHL size, but it's certainly large enough to work on most elements and to do program run-throughs.

    And IME you have to be able to adjust your competitive program to any size rink and to the features of the rink you're competing in each time - e.g. where the gates in the boards are, what markings there are on the ice, what "features" of the rink you're going to use to help you in your program (like what object you're going to look at to steady yourself when you come out of a spin). So your home rink ice being smaller is not a disadvantage.
  4. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how moves and dance patterns on a small rink work.
  5. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    I am certainly not a high-level ice dancer by any definition :) but on the dances I can do, you make the lobes a LOT deeper and fit the pattern in that way.

    I once competed in solo ice dance on a rink that was about 2/3 smaller than my home rink, and I think I did some of my best leaning and edges ever. Because I was desperately trying to finish the pattern before I ran into the boards :lol:
  6. carriecmu0503

    carriecmu0503 Member

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    I mean no disrespect, but have you ever skated, overedge? While it's not that big of a deal to go back and forth between Olympic and NHL size rinks (Olympic rinks are 15 feet wider) it still definitely takes a little adjusting. And that is with only a difference of 15 feet in width. With Katia and Illia's rink, you are talking about SEVENTY FEET in LENGTH! That is a HUGE difference. Yes, the rink is big enough to work on elements, but to do actual program run throughs- I don't see it. You can't just adjust to being on a rink that is 70 feet longer and remotely expect to fill out the rink. Now I wonder if that is why Liza T. was so criticized for having her whole program on only one end of the rink last year, getting almost no adequate ice coverage. I wonder if she trains on a small rink such as this in Russia?

    Forget about practicing dance patterns on that surface. The whole timing of the dance would be off when trying to fit it on that short of a surface.
    hanca and (deleted member) like this.
  7. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Ha! Maybe Katia & Ilia did this on purpose to give their skaters an 'edge':p over the competition. ;) But seriously, everything I'm reading about the rink sounds wonderful. I love their inclusive "skating is for everyone" philosophy, both Katia and Ilia are fantastic skaters, and they have given a lot of thought to their sport over the years, and it shows. Their students are lucky to have them.
  8. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Um, yes, if you would read my post you would see that I have actually skated, and in rinks of many different sizes. And I stand by what I said. With a much smaller rink I would definitely not take a program directly into competition at a larger rink without first running through it on a comparable-size surface, but it would not be completely impossible to practice it on a smaller rink.
  9. carriecmu0503

    carriecmu0503 Member

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    Yeah, let's see you learn and practice the ice dance patterns on that. It may work for the lowest dances, but intermediate or upper level ones? Probably not. You'd be totally off time and/ or off pattern. And like I said, how do you expect to just adjust to a rink that is suddenly 70 ft longer and have to fill out that surface? Magic? I don't think so. It's one thing if your rink is a little smaller, like Lake Arrowhead, you just push harder and deal with it. Just pushing harder is NOT going to work when you have 70 more feet to deal with. That would totally affect a program's choreography.
  10. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    What part of "I would definitely not take a program directly into competition at a larger rink without first running through it on a comparable-size surface" did you miss?
  11. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    Given the amount of ice available in Southern California, I'd prefer to train at full size rinks for FS programs, dances, and MITF. Why risk shrinking a pattern to 2/3 REGULARLY when there are full size rinks around?

    Everything else sounds great about the rink, and I'd love to take a stroking lesson for Katia too!!!! :swoon: :swoon:
  12. MoreIce

    MoreIce Member

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    I noticed Courtney Hicks in their welcome video. Interesting to see her working with them as well. The facilty does look beautiful.
  13. AnnM

    AnnM New Member

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    I don't know how I'd get through a lesson with Ilia without blushing and giggling like a teenager.

    Although maybe this is the motivation I need to resume skating regularly. :)
  14. marysy

    marysy Active Member

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    I feel the same about Katia! Quite honestly, I'd be happy to pay the lesson fee just to watch her practice or stroke all day...I might be too embarrassed to show her what I can (or in this case, cannot) do!

    In the rink schedule, the reserved time in the evening says that Ilia is practicing for the Medal Winners Open in Japan -- how I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that!
  15. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    Wonderful development for Katia & Ilia. May they have lots of success & inspire a whole new generation of skaters.
  16. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    Do they have a dance coach on staff? Maybe they aren't thinking about ice dancing yet.

    IMO, ice size only starts to matter when skaters reach more advanced levels. Little kids only use half the ice anyway. Maybe they arrange for ice time elsewhere to prepare their more advanced skaters for competition.

    I wonder if their longer term plans include addition of a second, full size rink. It is often a good business approach not to start to big too soon.
  17. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Just found it on the library website, it was "Skate Talk: In the words of the stars" by Steve Milton. It was published around 1998, I don't remember if Ilia was already OGM in it. It had a bunch of interviews with other skaters and stuff too, there was Toller Cranston IIRC and several others.

    Me neither. And then he would ask me to jump and I'd be all "Yeah right! Like I'm going to show Mr Gorgeous Triple Axel my piddling waltz jumps?" :shuffle:

    It seems like they are the only two coaches "on staff", but on the website it openly welcomes other coaches to the rink to pop in as long as they're accredited. Which IMO is a fabulous idea.
  18. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    First off...Congratulations to Ilia and Katia for finally getting this off the ground and going. I know it's been a dream of Ilia's for a long time and I hope it's all the success he's dreaming it will be.

    Second...I remember watching the then Champions Series Final coverage and they were showing Ilia backstage warming up on the floor. My Dad was ooohing and awwing over the one jump he'd just done and how impressive it had been. I turned to him and told him it was even more impressive than he thought. The last jump on the floor of Ilia's they showed? A Quad Toe.

    Didn't think Dad's eyes would be going back in his head again. LOL!!!
  19. sandi

    sandi New Member

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    Thanks for the info! Look forward to reading it! There are used copies on Amazon for less than four bucks including shipping! Definitely ordering it when I get my paycheck.
  20. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm I find your attitude a bit rude.

    In dance timing is timing. You skate to the beat, not the ice surface. And I agree with overedge that if you skate on a smaller rink, you make your edges deeper and work harder at it. It is what my coaches have always told me. It is not such a bad thing.

    And I have seen skaters from a tiny rink (less than 1/3 Olympic size) successfully expand a program to a full ice surface. It can be done.

    Anyway skating is skating. Kulik and Gordeeva probably have some of the best edges in the business. Want to get advice from the best then you will go there, not matter what the surface size is.
  21. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    That's the one! Enjoy ;)

    Exactly. My home rink is DEFINITELY not full size (I don't think it's even close!) and yet our skaters do just fine when they go elsewhere. And Tasmania's skaters sure put up a good showing considering their rink is very tiny (so I've heard).
  22. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    :) That is the one I was referring to. I have judged there twice and I have seen their skaters for many years now come to Melbourne to do competitions. The skaters do a fantastic job when they get on the larger ice. You couldn't tell they train on a small rink.
  23. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    I thought so. I ran into a Tasmanian skater this afternoon. She's come up a day ahead of time to run her programs through because their rink is about half the size of ours and they need to adjust. I'm sure she'll do just fine. :)
  24. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    Sandi, get that book! Of my skating book "library," it's my personal favorite. Lots of fascinating interviews in it. It's one of those books I return to periodically to re-read. :)
  25. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    I think that the coaching by Ilia or Katia will be very beneficial for older skaters who wish to better their technics. In my opinion though, the learning is a lot easier for young skaters. They can learn from the start e.g. the great stroking ability that Ilia and Katia both have. They seem to gather speed without using stroke, stroke, stroke, stroke, etc. technic, but really effortlessly and quickly. And Ilia┬┤s jumping, that is sooo beautiful and effortless!!!
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  26. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Ilia is used as an example for Skating Skills on the ISU component DVDs. They just show him in warm ups which even that is very impressive.
  27. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    I would think a few of our good but struggling elite jumpers should consult Ilia.
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I would assume that his budget was limited.
  29. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    In future Ilia will be doing interviews about Kulik's Skating, the vision he has for the short-term and the longer-term, the choices he has made, the process of transforming an industrial space (with some supports in the wrong places!) into an ice surface and training center, etc. - so stay tuned for all of that.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  30. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Thanks, I always look forward to reading Ilia's interviews, he comes across as very grounded and thoughtful.
  31. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    IMO sending a little skater to them for the basics would be really smart. Even at age 5 or 6, you could already see the quality technique in Liza's skating.

    At his peak, Ilia could get around the end of an Olympic rink using only 3 back crossovers (*most guys need at least 4). His speed is so effortless. I remember once after an SOI group number, Ilia was skating casually back to the tunnel entrance. Katia started maybe 20' farther back and still needed almost the entire length of the ice to catch him, and she was chasing hard.

    And Katia also has a famously beautiful and technically perfect stroke. I believe all her jump take-offs are also textbook.
  32. marysy

    marysy Active Member

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    This reminds me of some of the large pinwheels that they used to do in the SOI group numbers. Katia and Sergei were almost always at one end, and she, despite being smaller than many of the other skaters, was sometimes even a little ahead of the line.
  33. sandi

    sandi New Member

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    I sure will be getting it! Hopefully by next week. :)

    Can't wait to read for those interviews! Will Katia take part in the interviews, too? I would love to hear her thoughts as well.
  34. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I heard and read that Sergei had to keep up with her because she was so fast. She really has the most amazing skating technique. I could probably watch her just skate around the rink all day.

    A coach of mine saw them compete as juniors before they won their world championships. It was at Skate Canada and he was told they were the ones to watch. I will have to ask him about it again.
  35. I was there!

    I was there! New Member

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    As a great (maybe greatest) pair skater, she should know that you need a larger surface to complete lifts, throws and twists safely. I would also argue that it is not wise to be practicing a step sequence that MUST cover the ice on a small surface. IMO they aren't going to have many pairs train there.
  36. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Not only does overedge skate, I've seen overedge compete, and in different size rinks.

    Congratulations to Gordeeva and Kulik. If I had a kid in their area, I would send it to their rink to learn how to skate.

    I loved the tiffed girl to the far right at the end of the welcome video.

    The Kulik jumps video was wonderful: he looked so relaxed when he jumped. It reminded me of how David Jenkins, who was self-taught when it came to triples, said in the manleywoman podcast that the key to learning to jump was learning to fall. If he could relax when jumping, even if he knew he could fall, he continued to practice. If he felt tight, he wasn't ready, and needed to keep learning to fall, but the key was being relaxed.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  37. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I don't think their goal is to be creating world class pairs teams but rather helping skaters develop. It is not the size but rather what you do with it that matters.
  38. sammyf

    sammyf Well-Known Member

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    Tasmania's rink is just under 50ft by 100ft so much smaller than this one.
  39. Marlowe

    Marlowe Well-Known Member

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    I think you can relax. :) It's not like two dentists walked off a golf course one day and decided on a whim to open an ice skating rink. We are talking about Olympic champions here. Wise and aware. Disciplined and dedicated. Experts in their field. Highly respected. What's to worry?
  40. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    Love it! ITA, these are two people who know what they're doing.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012