New CDN ice dance team - Gilles & Poirier

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by victorskid, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    I'm assuming Christopher Dean must see a lot of potential in Paul's skating since he has maintained his relationship with him through to a 2nd partnership now.
  2. Impromptu

    Impromptu Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Christopher Dean also choreograph for Piper Gilles and Tim McKernan and/or Zach Donohue? He definitely did programs for Todd Gilles and Trina Pratt and Summersett/Gilles during those years. Often Tom Dickson would do either the SD and Dean would do the FD (or the reverse) for a lot of the Broadmoor skaters at that time, but I don't know for certain if he ever specifically choreographed for Piper and Tim/Zach - but he definitely worked with a lot of Patti Gottwein's teams.
  3. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    I was :rofl: when "let's begin with a spin" meant that they began with a spin. That's the shit I'm talking about! :respec: :rofl:
  4. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    At least the judges won't have to think too much about what it's about.
  5. 4rkidz

    4rkidz GPF Barcelona here I come

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    I didn't know it was Christopher Dean who had choreographed it but now makes complete sense why I loved it :respec: Not comparing techniq but pure entertainment/engagement of me as an audience member was top notch.. I have primarily found the top dancers rather boring this season so I found Gilles & Poirier really refreshing :p
  6. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and G/P connection comes across in interviews as well.

    I really like both programs for this new Canadian team. I'm excited about Gilles/Poirier (and I hope Mitchell/Islam work out their problems). Paul never stood out for me before. I found his skating with Vanessa quite elegant and technically brilliant, but boring and forgettable.
  7. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

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    That was one of my favourite bits :rofl: Obvious yet brilliant way to deal with the dreaded ole pair spin.
  8. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the links to past T/D great programs. That rock-and-roll OSP is the greatest, especially because it has to be repeated 3 times and they do it with the same energy level and it is exciting to watch instead of boring.

    Wish rock-and-roll would be a sd theme in an upcoming season.

    Will be great to see Dean inspired to create more interesting programs with G/P.
  9. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    Yeah, last season's free program by Crone & Poirier was a little too complicated. It didn't quite work.
  10. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    Right. No need for program notes. ;)
  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Pj Kwong on Piper Gilles/Paul Poirier before Canadians (includes FD practice video): http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskat...ier-gilles-bring-fresh-look-to-nationals.html
  12. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    She has family in Sarnia (which some of us affectionately call Narnia :) haha)? Well knock me down cause that's where I live. Smalll world.
  13. Subway

    Subway New Member

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    Dean is a big star but he has to pay the bills like everyone else. A high profile team is good for him. Often people assume someone like him is making more money than anyone.

    Of course, Paul Poirier IS a good skater. I get the feeling this new partnership is attempting to fit more into the conventional glamor girl partner mold, as if a male skater is shortchanged as a leading man if is partner isn't appropriately glamorous. I miss Vanessa. She brought so much strength to that team. They were like nobody else, but still with great basics. I don't see Piper's posture as better. Gilles/Poirier is more redundant - not ying and yang, but two fluffy, glam yangs, with one a considerabely stronger skater than the other.
  14. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Interesting analysis re the two partnerships, Subway.

    I think when you are looking for a new partner, the key is finding someone with whom you not only click personality-wise, but whose skating style and body type are also a good match. I doubt Poirier put out an SOS for a "glamour-girl" type partner. Considering all the difficulties inherent in skating with a new partner, Gilles/ Poirier look very good together and their future seems bright.

    The chemistry between G/P is very palpable, which to me seems much more important than whether or not they are perceived as "fluffy, glam yangs." Very interesting characterization though! Could you do a similar "ying/ yang" rundown on all of the top U.S. and Canadian ice dance teams? Please.
  15. Subway

    Subway New Member

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    If there is palpable chemistry, yes, that would overshadow other things. I dont feel palpable chemistry. This is a conventional looking team of similar physical types and for some it's considered a step up for Paul on that basis. I dont agree - for now.

    C&P were unconventional together not only physically. Crone was light, quick, precise, athletic, very focused and intense. I thought it was an excellent foil to Poirier's long lines and smooth power. I dont think Gilles matches his abilities or provides the same balance and interesting performance dynamic.
  16. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^Yes, you are likely absolutely right, especially with your take on lines and performance dynamic. Many here have expressed how much they love Crone's technique, elegant lines and her performances on the ice. The question then is, "Why did C/P break-up? Did they not get along together personality-wise? Does anyone know?

    Although Gilles at present does not match Poirier's technique level and overall abilities, there is another intriguing quality they seem to have together so far whether it's "fluffy, glam yangs" or whatever. They are definitely appealing as a team and so it will be interesting to see how far they will go.

    I do think your yin/yang analysis is quite fascinating. Would you assess Weaver/Poje as yang/yang? How about Virtue/ Moir and Davis/ White? Thanks for your thoughts.
  17. Subway

    Subway New Member

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    ???? Really not my points about Crone. But I see in what you just said about Crone why some are so very enthusiastic about Gilles with Poirier. Otherwise, no point in answering something insincere and baiting.

    So back to the topic in general Gilles is perceived in some quarters as better looking than Crone so Paul has upgraded to a partner at his attractiveness level. Crone took a lot of hits about posture and lack of elegance from some fans. I think these deficits were exaggerated and her skating technique was definitely better than Gilles and the chemistry much better. Not a romantic chemistry but a strong affinity. I dont find Gilles' posture anything to write home about. But I can see them making a strong bid for bronze at the upcoming Canadians.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  18. dramagrrl

    dramagrrl New Member

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    I completely agree re: Vanessa's technique and the exaggeration of her deficits. I also agree about Vanessa and Paul's chemistry being very strong, in a unique way - not romantic, per se, but not brother/sister or strictly platonic, either. So far, I don't really see a lot of chemistry between Piper and Paul.
  19. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, wow, that you express my comments as "insincere and baiting." Even if I don't see exactly what you see Subway, and I say that you are "absolutely right," that doesn't mean that I'm being "insincere and baiting." You are "absolutely right" in how you perceive the two partnerships, and I mean that sincerely. Your knowledge of ice dance is greater than mine, and therefore your perceptions are likely much more on target.

    And I am sincerely interested in your "yin/ yang" take, and that is why I asked how you would characterize other top teams in that respect. It is exciting right now to see the depth and strength of all the North American teams, and the impact they have had. I find your analyses thoughtful and interesting. :)

    From my limited knowledge perspective, I was never really drawn to C/P team, despite their obvious strengths. They didn't stand out very much to me, but then once again ice dance is not a discipline that I have followed as closely as other skating disciplines. The fact that C/P did not stand out to me as a more casual fan of ice dance seems to prove your point that "fluffy, glam" partnerships are more attention-grabbing to the general public. Yet also in regard to Gilles/ Poirier, in interviews and on the ice, their personalities seem to mesh quite well, and that might be the more important factor that will determine how well they grow together, with their mutual attractiveness and yang appeal an added benefit and the "icing on the cake."

    If C/P skated from a very young age together, perhaps that is why they shared such a "strong affinity." I haven't followed them closely and I don't know much about the former team, but from what I've read here they seem to have had either some personal disagreements or some personality conflicts which apparently over the long term can detract from the "success" of a partnership if it led to their mutual unhappiness in skating together.
  20. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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  21. NorthernDancers

    NorthernDancers New Member

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    To the ying/yang comparisons with the top skaters:

    In Canada:

    V/M: absolutely ying/yang
    - Virtue is naturally quieter, and doesn't go out of her way to find the lime light. She's sweet and tough all at the same time. She is interested in the packaging of the team, and is a pretty good choreographer. She's the emotional grounding in the team.
    - Moir wears his emotions on his sleeve - angry, happy,.... you'll know. He likes to joke around, and is very outgoing and gregarious. He's always been that way. He's a natural leader. He is very much the technician. He's the excitement and energy in the team.

    W/P: absolutely ying/yang
    - Weaver is tough and fierce and determined. She's not shy in the least. She knows what she wants, and is not afraid to go after this. She's disciplined. She's actually a lot nicer than people sometimes make her out to be. She's just a strong, talented, smart woman.
    - Poje is much more laid back in his personality. He provides a good foil for all that strength. He doesn't take himself too seriously. He's much more quiet, a little shy, and likes to have fun.

    P/I: mostly ying/yang
    - he's a little less gregarious than Moir, but they really do have some of that same dynamic. It's not as pronounced, but definitely there.

    R/H: not quite as familiar with these 2 personally, but I think they are along the same lines.

    H/G: mostly ying/yang
    - he's pretty gregarious, she not as much so
  22. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    What I think is most unfair about the Ice Dance results is that it looks like Paul Poirier and Piper Gilles won't get to go to Worlds this year because she hasn't been 'released' by the U.S. yet. Why not? She's been skating with him since last Summer.

    It's not fair that someone else should get the spot that they earned.
  23. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    They didn't earn a spot to any ISU competition, because they aren't eligible for ISU competition. They chose to compete at Canadian Nationals, where they earned a spot on the podium, before they were eligible for ISU competition.

    If you want to argue that the USFS release policies are unfair to the althletes, I would agree with you.
  24. smithie

    smithie New Member

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    The only thing not fair is how Paul treated Vanessa.
    euler likes this.
  25. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, unceremoneously dumped, I heard :(
  26. ltnskater

    ltnskater New Member

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    Lol, I'm sorry, I just had to laugh at this. Seems so ironic, there are always two sides of the story... just sayin...
  27. smithie

    smithie New Member

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    Ltnskater - your bias has been very clear in your recent posts - so what you say here is taken with a very big grain of salt. It is not at all surprising that you were the first to post in this vein.

    And you are right there are two sides to the story and then there is the truth.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
  28. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    OK, I got confused because I thought it was Vanessa who initiated the breakup of that pairing. Am I remembering wrong or confusing it with Dube and Davidson. Getting old with swiss cheese memory really sucks.
  29. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Reported here was that Crone wanted to leave their coach and go to one with more politiks, which pretty much means outside Canada, and Poirier wouldn't leave Lane and Canada, where he's still a university student.

    That's hardly treating someone badly.
  30. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    Well, I heard that she made fun of his clothes and hair and he didn't laugh at her jokes and then she would sometimes borrow his CD's and not return them on time and that he sometimes ate food off her plate :eek: and that she wore perfumes that were not his favourite and that he farted once and that she once wore her hair down when he liked it up! But I'm not sure if any of this is true. Maybe not. But.....................
    taf2002, kwanfan1818, Habs and 3 others like this.
  31. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Very Likely ;)
  32. maggylyn

    maggylyn Well-Known Member

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    We must have the same :sekret:

    I heard this too!
  33. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    I think the same could be said right back to you. A review of your posting history shows that most of your previous posts were spent bashing Kaitlyn Weaver when she got her citizenship. Now you're upset with Paul for the way the partnership ended and have other recent posts saying how unfair that neither Vanessa nor Keiffer could get a release. I wonder where your biases are?

    I know nothing about what happened and have no horse in the game, but if you are going to accuse other people of having biases, you might want to look at yourself first.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  34. mirage

    mirage Member

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  35. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    Unless people have first-hand knowledge of why they split, I don't think we should be making conclusions.

    Paul has always spoken very well of Vanessa in public and kept whatever disagreements they may have had private. He spoke very well of her in a long French interview he did on their partnership last year.

    Incidentally, considering the connection Paul's coach Carol Lane has with Christopher Dean, it makes sense that he would want to keep that asset.
  36. 13KJC13

    13KJC13 New Member

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    EXACTLY!!!
  37. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

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  38. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    I'm a little disappointed as there isn't near the level of voids of last year's FD, and it doesn't have the same impact overall, but they have improved. They move more as a unit and their unison is clearly better.

    They look good, I just wish I could be more excited about the FD. After last year, theirs was one of the few I was really looking forward too seeing.
  39. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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  40. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    What an interresting FD. Like how all lifts goes with the music and didnt look so acrobatic, but i am sure will have level 4. Thanks, PJ!