New CDN ice dance team - Gilles & Poirier

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by victorskid, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. Andora

    Andora Well-Known Member

    10,671
    2,215
    113
    I wonder how lifts are going to look in their long. :shuffle:

    They're enjoyable, but they're too much like Weaver & Poje, imho. Paul and Vanessa were so different from other CDN teams, and Piper & Paul don't stand apart right out the get, sadly. But who knows how they'll actually develop.
     
  2. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

    11,218
    2,023
    113
    Just watched it again and still feel the same. If anything it really emphasizes how great a skater Paul is. His posture, edges and flow are to die for. I just think there is a lot of work for her to reach his level and I don't know at this stage if it's possible. It´ll be the same thing that holds me back from LURVING W&P. The girls are both perky blondes and good skaters but not great skaters, they lack the extension, depth of edge and natural flow their partners have (and Vanessa had). They are working on it with Kaitlyn and I see improvement but it's doesn't come naturally.

    But I am partial to a certain style of skater (Virtue, Pechalet, Ilinkyh and Crone have what I like in an ice dancer). I wonder if it would have been easier to give Crone a personality shot then it will be to make Gilles skate like her :scream:
     
    pat c and (deleted member) like this.
  3. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

    3,818
    414
    83
    I think you can teach someone how to skate -- giving them more personality on the ice may be more work. It just seemed to me that she didn't want to skate with Paul any longer so off she went. Her choice, of course, but too bad for Paul. I love his skating and am glad he is still competing. Vanessa ... well ... I'll be nice and wish her luck.
     
  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

    32,601
    4,993
    113
    Considering that this is Piper's first season at the senior level after a year of not competing, of course she needs more time to develop and lots more work to try and "catch up" to Paul. I'm no technik when it comes to dance, but I think she's off to a good start! :)
     
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    20,569
    1,599
    113
    The music is just :rolleyes:. I haven't heard a cheaper, tackier, shittier song in a very long time and I closely follow the charts and the new releases. It's probably used in Guantanamo Bay. I mean I'd even pick "Swagger Jagger" over that. The second song wasn't much better.

    Horrific music choices.

    I am positively surprised about Gilles' skating quality. I thought the gap between them would be even bigger but she's much better than I thought.

    She's a little too tall for him, though. Aethetically, they don't look good together at all.

    Not touching circular sequence needs more work, it was a little off in places.

    Entry to the twizzles was unusual and difficult but the first set was running three-turns and not twizzles. If the technical panel actually read the rules, they should abide by, the element should get no value.

    But despite it clearly being written that three-turned twizzles don't count, I have never yet seen any panel actually apply that to running threes performed as "twizzles". :rolleyes:

    The lift was weak: heavy and laboured. Given their small difference in size, they might have big problems with the lifts.

    Speed was good.

    A lot to work on, but that was a very decent effort for a first outing.

    One thing I wasn't sold on was the chemistry between them. They didn't seem to relate to each other very well, it was a bit too "two skaters doing their own thing". Hopefully that's another thing that will come with time.

    P.S. From a distance, she looks like Joanna Krupa. :D
     
  6. pat c

    pat c Well-Known Member

    9,717
    1,846
    113
    This.

    But it's early days and maybe they'll find a direction or style that will set them apart. Like you, there's something that holds me back from lurving W&P. I'm hoping that G&P won't still give me the same look and feel vibe in a year. They are good skaters, not great. And there have been a lot of good skaters that have done very well. But it's the great that reels you in, even if you don't like their style or programs per se.

    (shrug) ymmv
     
  7. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

    1,253
    211
    63
    Piper may not match Paul in the quality of skating or extensions but I sort of prefer her to Vanessa for her nice lines. Paul certainly rocks, he's a great skater IMO and quite natural in all his movements. He's actually been one of my favorite men dancers these past few years.:cool:
     
  8. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

    1,726
    161
    63
    Here's PJ Kwong's interview with them from the summer:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5GrwGV1ysA

    They come across to me as being a good personality match. If they really enjoy working together, it will make it easier to slog through the difficult times. Her skating needs work to come up to his level, yes, but they have interesting potential, IMO.
     
  9. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    1,592
    155
    0
    What Ziggy said, except I don't know who Joanna Krupa is.
     
  10. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

    11,218
    2,023
    113
    I had to google:
    http://www.joannakrupa.com/

    I guess since Ziggy is in Europe and they were skating in Canada that would be the distance required to see the resemblance, we're probably too close ;)
     
  11. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

    5,246
    962
    113
    I could see what the women on that list had in common until Crone. Crone has her strengths, but that list looks like a "one of these things is not like the other" game.

    I watched Gilles and Poirier both live and again on the video since I missed about the first 20 seconds of the live skate, and I thought they looked a lot better live. I agree with VarBar's comments about the lines that Piper has. Paul is obviously a stronger skater than Piper, but he was stronger than Vanessa as well. Really, he's so good that there aren't very many women out there who could match him, so anyone he picked was going to have some catching up to do. The good news is that they're young and have a bit of time. It may be a good thing for them that they can only do domestic competitions this year and by next year, can probably hit the ground running internationally.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
  12. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

    1,478
    127
    63
    Yes, I don't see any individual style in them yet - at least in this one SD.
     
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    20,569
    1,599
    113
    That.

    Piper's posture and lines are quite nice. Given Vanessa had the most horrific posture in Ice Dance, it's a nice change.

    Gilles isn't likely to ever be on Paul's level skating-wise but hopefully she'll catch up enough for the gap not to be too apparent (it already isn't that bad).

    Think about Tobias/Stagniunas. He's a million time stronger skater than her and in their first season it looked really jarring (but they covered it up with tons of perk). This season, he's still a much stronger skater (and will surely always remain so) but she's really improved and the gap between them is less visible now.

    Or maybe it's the drugs? Or the psychosis? So many possibilities! :D

    (Or maybe I'm watching too much of Poland's Next Top Model, which Krupa is hosting)

    (Krupa is a lingerie/swimsuit model, she took part in Dancing with the Stars US and was/is interviewing the stars backstage during the last season. She was also high on various lads mags' sexiest women in the world lists. She's an animal rights advocate and did one of my favourite PETA ads ever: http://weeklyworldnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/joanna_krupa_peta_ad_full.jpg?w=450&h=602 :saint:)
     
  14. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

    2,437
    625
    113
    Actually, that's not quite true. The requirement for level 1 is simply "at least one rotation in each of the two Twizzles" (by each partner) and if any part becomes a series of Three Turns the level is reduced as follows:

    1. If any part of any Twizzle becomes a Pirouette or checked Three Turns, its Level shall be reduced:
    �� by one Level if one or two of the four Twizzles become Pirouettes or checked Three Turns;
    �� by two Levels if three or four of the four Twizzles become Pirouettes or checked Three Turns.

    (see page 20 here http://www.usfsa.org/Content/ISU Comm 1677.pdf).

    (There is also a GOE reduction for incorrect execution, obviously).

    So maybe you should read the rules before accusing trained officials of not following rules that aren't actually rules. :p (Unless you can find a place where it does say what you're arguing then let me know. ISU rules are known to be contradictory and confusing at times. ;) Also, I don't know for sure tech panel is supposed to do if they would've only been Level 1 to start with and some of them are three-turned, but I would guess it would still be called as a Level 1 if each partner had at least one rotation on each. The only place where it says they would given "No Value" is if the requirements for level 1 aren't met).

    All of this is ignoring the issue of whether Gilles & Poirier actually did do checked 3-turns instead of twizzles, because I haven't watched them yet, but will later.
     
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    20,569
    1,599
    113
    And in the first twizzle that requirement wasn't fulfilled. It was all three-turns.

    It's pretty much impossible to perform twizzles with the free leg raised and extended to the side.
     
  16. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

    2,437
    625
    113
    I could possibly be wrong, but the way I'm reading is that the features are awarded based on the list, and the initial level is determined based on the number of features awarded, and after that is reduced based on how many of the twizzles were incorrectly executed. As long as each partner completed one revolution and the turns were recognizable as an attempt at the twizzles, I would think it would get level 1, but would have to ask someone to be sure.
     
  17. BethBarnaby

    BethBarnaby New Member

    11
    4
    0
    Hubbel/Donohue do the same position and always received credit.
     
  18. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    4,953
    833
    113
    They look good together and seem to be happy and having fun on the ice. I don't find Piper's height to be that much of a problem. The Kerrs made the height complication work for them. Paul seems to have a lot more chemistry and presence with Piper than he did with Vanessa.
     
  19. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    8,728
    288
    83
    Any nws about Vanessa? Will we have a chance to see her on ice?
    I think Paul and Piper will have a bright future :)
    They have amazing speed - wow!
    And Paul look more mature with Piper, then he looked with Vanessa.
    But for me Piper didnt have such a light skating skills, like Vanessa and Paul had. But she have a lot of time to improve. Good luck them both!
     
  20. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

    11,218
    2,023
    113
    ....in the eye of the beholder and all that ;). Vanessa was a great skater, girl had clean deep flowing edges, like the others I mentioned.
     
  21. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

    11,218
    2,023
    113
    Well as much as I didn't care for their SD I LOVE their FD. It's even more fun than the costumes made me imagine.
     
  22. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

    32,601
    4,993
    113
  23. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

    5,088
    354
    83
    Well, imo, they have really nice flow and speed (from what I could tell from that vid) and I really enjoyed their lifts. I'm impressed on how good they look considering Paul skated for so long with Vanessa...they don't look like they are grabbing for each other or jockeying for position that you might see in a new team. He definitely looks like a more mature skater to me, he always looked like Vanessa's kid brother to me when they skated together. I think he made a good choice.

    Having said that I was a little surprised at the score. I could be wrong but I don't see this FD getting quite that high a score in international competition. But for a first season together, it's pretty great. If they are committed to Sochi and beyond, I think they are on the right track.
     
  24. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

    6,792
    1,101
    113
    OMG. How in the world did someone come up with that music combo and edit it all together?

    I'm not knocking it, it's actually kind of fabulously voidy and Blanc&Bouquet-esque. :inavoid: It's just so... random? Like, how did they come up with it?

    I think her level not being at his shows more here than in the SD. Poirer just shines in so many places in this FD. And :lol: at there being some actual real choreography and connecting movement all through that dance. Poirier should know the judges don't give a sh*t about that stuff anymore. :shuffle:
     
  25. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

    871
    231
    43
    It was a bit of a mishmosh, but they both looked like they enjoyed the skate. They looked happy afterwards, and even danced a bit to the arena music.

    It's good to see him looking so upbeat and positive.

    I really couldn't imagine her ever being close to his level, based on her previous performances. But now, I think it just might work out, given time and lots of work.
     
  26. Subway

    Subway New Member

    348
    48
    0
    I think Vanessa has much better posture than Piper. Piper has nice qualities - posture isn't one of them. But the team has a nice vibe together.

    I've always found Christopher Dean overrated. His MO is to rip off every version of "Nutcracker" ever staged. His choreography imagines the skaters as mechanical toys even if he does not cop to that. The costumes back it up.

    If you like that sort of thing, nice, but genius it is not. The swimming arms, flopping at the waist - everything has an intentional robot quality. It's valid, but not creative after almost 30 years, or anything near original. Even his group numbers for SOI did this.
     
  27. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

    6,792
    1,101
    113
    ^^^^^

    I've always felt the same way. I refer to Dean's choreography as "Man pulling inanimate object."

    But these days, considering what the everyone else is doing, I'll take it.
     
  28. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

    11,218
    2,023
    113
    Aw, I loved it. But then I never watch SOI so do I get a pass ;)
     
  29. dancefan17

    dancefan17 Member

    186
    20
    18
    Well, I smiled all through that free dance-- love the spirit of it and thought they definitely looked better together (more 'gelled' if that's a word) than the SD, which I liked as well. Love the music, the message, very nice....
     
  30. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    20,968
    3,858
    113
    coughBobrovacough (Bobrova has other, wonderful qualities.)

    Or Denkova. She was pretty awful when she first started, which Gilles is not, and she became as strong as her partner.

    Right now they look to me like he's taking his talented little sister through the tests. It's wonderful to see him skate so beautifully, though.
     
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.