1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New CDN ice dance team - Gilles & Poirier

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by victorskid, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. overedge

    overedge not your emotional support turkey

    20,951
    7,758
    113
    Are you seriously saying that this article about G/P is more coverage than other Canadian skaters have received? Were you even looking at pretty much any newspaper in Canada while the 2010 Olympics were taking place?
     
  2. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

    10,472
    4,623
    113
    Get those back issues of The Star during Worlds in London. I am pretty sure there were a couple of photographs of Tessa and Scott (and Patrick) in the newspaper.

    Seems to me the athletes who could be "pitied" are those who are also trying to get their Canadian citizenship before the Games. Are there any? I'm pretty sure if someone like Patrick Kane or one of the Sedin twins was trying to play for the Canadian men's hockey team, the editors would've completely ignored Piper and Paul.

    ETA: Joannie, Tessa, Scott and Patrick were featured in the front pages of a lot of Canadian newspapers after one of their Grand Prix victories. Especially during the lead up of the 2010 Games. Usually along with other Canadian athletes doing well in their competitions on that same weekend.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Subway

    Subway New Member

    348
    48
    0
    Your opinion of The Star is by no means universal. Furthermore, as Skate Canada has gone overboard promoting Piper & Paul out of all proportion to their results, I think it's very reasonable to believe they had a hand in not just the prominence of this story, but its key omissions. Given how Gilles & Poirier have been scored at home, I think that plays a part in how people see them "earning" their spot. It is framed as if the spot will be handed to them with a passport, and the competition at Canadians only a formality. That's different than Weaver & Poje, who actually did have to compete (and didn't succeed). Given the disproportionate support and publicity they've been getting from their Fed (more than the Fed has given the Olympic champions of late), I can't blame people for thinking this is an attempt to railroad Gilles & Poirier into Sochi. After all this hue and cry in The Star for a passport, if Gilles gets one, would they actually not send Gilles & Poirier to Sochi? I think that's already decided.
     
  4. intentions

    intentions New Member

    24
    2
    0
    Actually, I am.

    I am not referring to just this one article and not to specific competition or Worlds/Olympic times. But for example, where are all the articles on Paul/Islam, Ralph/Hill, or for that matter Weaver/Poje? Moore-Towers/Moscovitch also come to mind.

    As a second tier team, across various media, G/P seem to garner quite a bit of print time, and an editorial to boot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  5. intentions

    intentions New Member

    24
    2
    0
    Perhaps, and since this is a skating, it would have been worth looking at why federations hold their skaters and limit their abilities to skate for other countries (not that this applied to Gilles - her accomplishments in the US, did not warrant the USFSA holding onto her).
     
  6. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

    10,472
    4,623
    113
  7. intentions

    intentions New Member

    24
    2
    0
    Thank you Subway, you said it better than I did.
     
  8. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

    8,904
    4,061
    113
    The current anti G&P hysteria is almost as bad as the anti G&P hysteria from the 90's. :lol:
     
  9. teaspoon

    teaspoon New Member

    13
    9
    3
    That would have made it okay, but what would have really made it better is being honest about G/P's prospects. This article leaves uninformed readers with the impression that G/P are guaranteed an Olympic berth and the only thing in their way is a passport. The editorial claims that the Ministry of Immigration is depriving them of a shot at an Olympic medal. It makes no mention at all of Nationals, where several teams will by vying for the third Olympic spot.

    I'm not saying that they have to undermine themselves in an interview, but I'd appreciate if they and/or the author and/or editor didn't deliberately mislead. It makes me wonder what they've told the Ministry of Immigration. I certainly hope they haven't hinted to the Minister that they're a medal prospect for Sochi, as proclaimed in the editorial.

    This one article is what finally caused a reaction, but it's just the latest instance in a pattern of media outlets giving this team hype disproportionate to their skill and accomplishments.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  10. overedge

    overedge not your emotional support turkey

    20,951
    7,758
    113
    With all due respect, Skate Canada, or any sports federation for that matter, does not get to dictate where a story is placed in a newspaper or what that story leaves out.
     
  11. overedge

    overedge not your emotional support turkey

    20,951
    7,758
    113
    And again - an editorial is an opinion piece. It is not a news story. You may not agree with the opinion, but the editorial was clearly positioned as such, not as an objective or impartial news article. The Star is not being "dishonest" by expressing its opinion.
     
  12. teaspoon

    teaspoon New Member

    13
    9
    3
    I understand what you're saying, and I agree that it's fine for the Star to say that the Minister should grant Piper's application. But "they’ll be denied a chance to try for a medal at the Winter Olympics in Sochi if her Canadian citizenship doesn’t arrive in time" is not an opinion, it's a statement of presumed fact upon which that opinion is based.
     
  13. overedge

    overedge not your emotional support turkey

    20,951
    7,758
    113
    That statement is clearly positioned under a heading saying Opinion/Editorial, so I doubt that it is going to be interpreted as a "statement of presumed fact".
     
  14. intentions

    intentions New Member

    24
    2
    0
    It certainly leads the non skating fans to think G/P are the cat's meow and in medal contention.
     
  15. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    25,501
    10,592
    113
    They surely didn't show it by editorializing that the only thing between G/P and Sochi was a passport, when 2014 Canadian Nationals hadn't happened yet, as if ice weren't slippery, and, worse, that they were in the running for a medal, when they are unlikely participants for the team event if W/P and V/M are healthy. Technically, anyone who enters is in the running for a medal, but that's saying Shtork/Rand were in the running for a medal in Vancouver.

    However, saying G/P are the frontrunner for a spot at Sochi would have been the truth and would have shown some understanding by whoever wrote the editorial. They only have one year of international competition under their belts, but they've beaten:
    Paul/Islam at USFSC by 3+ points
    Orford/Williams at Four Continents by 18+ points
    Ralph/Hill at Skate Canada by 10+ points
    Ralph/Hill at 2012 Canadian Nationals by 16+ points (and P/I, O/W)
    Orford/Williams at 2013 Canadian Nationals by 18+ points (and P/I, R/H)​

    By contrast in the Olympic cycle leading up to Vancouver, Weaver/Poje had whooped Crone/Poirier at 2007 Junior Worlds and beat C/P at 2008 Canadian Nationals by 2+ points, C/P's first year as seniors, but Crone/Poirier beat W/P at 2009 Canadian Nationals by 5+ points and 2009 4C's by 8+ points. While that by no means guaranteed C/P a spot in Vancouver, and W/P came within .31 of beating them, on paper, C/P had a stronger record in the 2009 season leading into Vancouver. When the Canadian government was making the decision to expedite Weaver's citizenship, her record was comparatively weaker to Gilles'. It wasn't until the next Olympic cycle that W/P surpassed C/P.
     
  16. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

    2,710
    303
    83
    Gee ... a seemingly normal newspaper report can create so much :drama:
    Many countries do fast track citizenships for sports people.
     
  17. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    1,856
    317
    83
    Oh, there was QUITE a bit of PR after Kaitlyn got her citizenship, about how she was an Olympic hopeful and came to Canada to reach her dreams. The articles were worded as if getting her citizenship meant she was a lock for the team. Piper is an Olympic hopeful who is getting some press, and may or may not make the team, so there's not much difference between Kaitlyn's and Piper's situations.
     
  18. Subway

    Subway New Member

    348
    48
    0
    I think the question is how much media was there BEFORE Kaitlyn got her citizenship, attempting to help her get it in under two years? Was there an attempt to publicly influence the process going on, on the front pages of major newspapers? If so, how come she ended up waiting three years?

    I don't see the relevant comparison also because she took an entire year longer to get citizenship than is being requested for Piper. I bet chances are good Piper will get hers in 3 years or a little over, just like Kaitlyn. And when she's a citizen then, people can speculate about her chances for the 2018 Olympic team, just as they did Kaitlyn's for 2010.
     
  19. Jenifer

    Jenifer Active Member

    154
    75
    28
    Piper's citizenship situation isn't exactly the same as Kaitlyn's. Since Piper's Mom is (now) a Canadian citizen, Piper would be entitled to claim Canadian citizenship even she weren't an Olympic hopeful. That's why it hasn't taken as long for her for Kaitlyn who, in theory, had to meet a minimum residency requirement. There's no question as to whether Piper should or should not be granted citizenship on the merits of her skating or Olympic potential; it seems to me like they're just trying to speed up the bureaucracy.

    I'm not at all convinced that this article is evidence of any kind of Konspiracy or special treatment. More likely, it's the sign of a slow news week.
     
  20. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    25,501
    10,592
    113
    The 2009 law that granted automatic reinstatement of citizenship doesn't apply to second-generation children born outside Canada to a Canadian parent, which Gilles became after her mother got citizenship, but it's unclear whether this means Gilles has to go through a process different from Weaver to get citizenship -- reinstating citizenship for someone who relinquished it requires only one year of residency, not three, for example -- and this process is taking too long, or if she discovered she has to go through the same process Weaver did with the same residency requirements.

    Do W/P live in Canada and commute to the US to train?
     
  21. BittyBug

    BittyBug Not Rolling My Eyes

    17,176
    7,311
    113
    Perhaps Canadians would like to borrow this: :mitchell:

    :saint:
     
    peibeck and (deleted member) like this.
  22. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

    8,838
    5,212
    113
    My understanding is that a natural born Canadian citizen (Piper's GRANDMOTHER) can get citizenship through an expedited procedure for their children (Piper's MOTHER,) but this does not extend to the next generation. Piper has no more claim on Canadian citizenship than anyone else born in the US to American parents (which it is where her mother and father were born and are citizens.) If Piper had been born after April 17, 2009 and her mother was a naturalized citizen at the time of her birth, she would then have a claim on citizenship.

    Piper needs to have been a permanent resident for 3 years (1095 days) of the past 4 years. The less than three years rule is if your parent is Canadian and is applying on behalf of a child that is under 18 years old.

    http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=355&t=5
     
  23. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    25,501
    10,592
    113
    Actually, by the normal process, Gilles needs to be a permanent resident and *physically resident* in Canada for three of the last four years to be eligible to apply for citizenship, which then takes 18-24 months to process, according to the CIC website. Plus you can't meet the requirements, apply for citizenship, and leave: you have to maintain those days through the application process.

    To maintain permanent residency status, a person needs to be physically resident in Canada for two out of every rolling five years, unless the person is working outside Canada for a Canadian company or living outside Canada with a Canadian spouse, in which case those days outside Canada count towards maintaining status. Those exceptions don't apply for citizenship.

    There is also a provision to count .5 of the days spent in Canada while under certain visas until Permanent Residency is granted, but I'm not sure if those count towards citizenship or towards permanent residency only.
     
  24. Jenifer

    Jenifer Active Member

    154
    75
    28
    Huh. I thought the whole point of Piper's Mom getting her citizenship was so that Piper could then claim citizenship as well; if that weren't the case, then what was the point of Mrs. Gilles becoming a Canadian? :confused:
     
  25. intentions

    intentions New Member

    24
    2
    0
    If judging actually reflected the skill of the weaker team member, as it is supposed to, this team would have marks indicative of their actual level. Perhaps, this would dull the sense of entitlement to a Canadian citizenship and a berth to the Olympics.

    Huge horseshoes........
     
    aka_gerbil and (deleted member) like this.
  26. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

    47,494
    12,614
    113
    It makes good sense for them to pursue citizenship for Piper since they have a very good chance based on their abilities of making the Olympic team. They aren't equal to the best teams in the world, but they are very much competitive for that third Canadian spot.
     
  27. overedge

    overedge not your emotional support turkey

    20,951
    7,758
    113
    What "sense of entitlement"? They want to go to the Olympics and are trying to get the citizenship to be able to do that. That's no different than any other team or individual skater wanting to have whatever they need to be able to compete.
     
  28. intentions

    intentions New Member

    24
    2
    0
    Fair enough, other than needing preferential treatment to get there.
     
  29. overedge

    overedge not your emotional support turkey

    20,951
    7,758
    113
    As far as I can tell from the article, they are using all the legal possibilities that are available to them. I don't see how that is "preferential treatment".
     
  30. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    25,501
    10,592
    113
    That only works if we find out that one of the parents of the other contenders launches a counteroffensive.

    :watch: