New CDN ice dance team - Gilles & Poirier

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by victorskid, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    And again - an editorial is an opinion piece. It is not a news story. You may not agree with the opinion, but the editorial was clearly positioned as such, not as an objective or impartial news article. The Star is not being "dishonest" by expressing its opinion.
  2. teaspoon

    teaspoon New Member

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    I understand what you're saying, and I agree that it's fine for the Star to say that the Minister should grant Piper's application. But "they’ll be denied a chance to try for a medal at the Winter Olympics in Sochi if her Canadian citizenship doesn’t arrive in time" is not an opinion, it's a statement of presumed fact upon which that opinion is based.
  3. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    That statement is clearly positioned under a heading saying Opinion/Editorial, so I doubt that it is going to be interpreted as a "statement of presumed fact".
  4. intentions

    intentions New Member

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    It certainly leads the non skating fans to think G/P are the cat's meow and in medal contention.
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    They surely didn't show it by editorializing that the only thing between G/P and Sochi was a passport, when 2014 Canadian Nationals hadn't happened yet, as if ice weren't slippery, and, worse, that they were in the running for a medal, when they are unlikely participants for the team event if W/P and V/M are healthy. Technically, anyone who enters is in the running for a medal, but that's saying Shtork/Rand were in the running for a medal in Vancouver.

    However, saying G/P are the frontrunner for a spot at Sochi would have been the truth and would have shown some understanding by whoever wrote the editorial. They only have one year of international competition under their belts, but they've beaten:
    Paul/Islam at USFSC by 3+ points
    Orford/Williams at Four Continents by 18+ points
    Ralph/Hill at Skate Canada by 10+ points
    Ralph/Hill at 2012 Canadian Nationals by 16+ points (and P/I, O/W)
    Orford/Williams at 2013 Canadian Nationals by 18+ points (and P/I, R/H)​

    By contrast in the Olympic cycle leading up to Vancouver, Weaver/Poje had whooped Crone/Poirier at 2007 Junior Worlds and beat C/P at 2008 Canadian Nationals by 2+ points, C/P's first year as seniors, but Crone/Poirier beat W/P at 2009 Canadian Nationals by 5+ points and 2009 4C's by 8+ points. While that by no means guaranteed C/P a spot in Vancouver, and W/P came within .31 of beating them, on paper, C/P had a stronger record in the 2009 season leading into Vancouver. When the Canadian government was making the decision to expedite Weaver's citizenship, her record was comparatively weaker to Gilles'. It wasn't until the next Olympic cycle that W/P surpassed C/P.
  6. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Gee ... a seemingly normal newspaper report can create so much :drama:
    Many countries do fast track citizenships for sports people.
  7. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Oh, there was QUITE a bit of PR after Kaitlyn got her citizenship, about how she was an Olympic hopeful and came to Canada to reach her dreams. The articles were worded as if getting her citizenship meant she was a lock for the team. Piper is an Olympic hopeful who is getting some press, and may or may not make the team, so there's not much difference between Kaitlyn's and Piper's situations.
  8. Subway

    Subway New Member

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    I think the question is how much media was there BEFORE Kaitlyn got her citizenship, attempting to help her get it in under two years? Was there an attempt to publicly influence the process going on, on the front pages of major newspapers? If so, how come she ended up waiting three years?

    I don't see the relevant comparison also because she took an entire year longer to get citizenship than is being requested for Piper. I bet chances are good Piper will get hers in 3 years or a little over, just like Kaitlyn. And when she's a citizen then, people can speculate about her chances for the 2018 Olympic team, just as they did Kaitlyn's for 2010.
  9. Jenifer

    Jenifer Active Member

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    Piper's citizenship situation isn't exactly the same as Kaitlyn's. Since Piper's Mom is (now) a Canadian citizen, Piper would be entitled to claim Canadian citizenship even she weren't an Olympic hopeful. That's why it hasn't taken as long for her for Kaitlyn who, in theory, had to meet a minimum residency requirement. There's no question as to whether Piper should or should not be granted citizenship on the merits of her skating or Olympic potential; it seems to me like they're just trying to speed up the bureaucracy.

    I'm not at all convinced that this article is evidence of any kind of Konspiracy or special treatment. More likely, it's the sign of a slow news week.
  10. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    The 2009 law that granted automatic reinstatement of citizenship doesn't apply to second-generation children born outside Canada to a Canadian parent, which Gilles became after her mother got citizenship, but it's unclear whether this means Gilles has to go through a process different from Weaver to get citizenship -- reinstating citizenship for someone who relinquished it requires only one year of residency, not three, for example -- and this process is taking too long, or if she discovered she has to go through the same process Weaver did with the same residency requirements.

    Do W/P live in Canada and commute to the US to train?
  11. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    Perhaps Canadians would like to borrow this: :mitchell:

    :saint:
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  12. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that a natural born Canadian citizen (Piper's GRANDMOTHER) can get citizenship through an expedited procedure for their children (Piper's MOTHER,) but this does not extend to the next generation. Piper has no more claim on Canadian citizenship than anyone else born in the US to American parents (which it is where her mother and father were born and are citizens.) If Piper had been born after April 17, 2009 and her mother was a naturalized citizen at the time of her birth, she would then have a claim on citizenship.

    Piper needs to have been a permanent resident for 3 years (1095 days) of the past 4 years. The less than three years rule is if your parent is Canadian and is applying on behalf of a child that is under 18 years old.

    http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=355&t=5
  13. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Actually, by the normal process, Gilles needs to be a permanent resident and *physically resident* in Canada for three of the last four years to be eligible to apply for citizenship, which then takes 18-24 months to process, according to the CIC website. Plus you can't meet the requirements, apply for citizenship, and leave: you have to maintain those days through the application process.

    To maintain permanent residency status, a person needs to be physically resident in Canada for two out of every rolling five years, unless the person is working outside Canada for a Canadian company or living outside Canada with a Canadian spouse, in which case those days outside Canada count towards maintaining status. Those exceptions don't apply for citizenship.

    There is also a provision to count .5 of the days spent in Canada while under certain visas until Permanent Residency is granted, but I'm not sure if those count towards citizenship or towards permanent residency only.
  14. Jenifer

    Jenifer Active Member

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    Huh. I thought the whole point of Piper's Mom getting her citizenship was so that Piper could then claim citizenship as well; if that weren't the case, then what was the point of Mrs. Gilles becoming a Canadian? :confused:
  15. intentions

    intentions New Member

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    If judging actually reflected the skill of the weaker team member, as it is supposed to, this team would have marks indicative of their actual level. Perhaps, this would dull the sense of entitlement to a Canadian citizenship and a berth to the Olympics.

    Huge horseshoes........
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  16. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

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    It makes good sense for them to pursue citizenship for Piper since they have a very good chance based on their abilities of making the Olympic team. They aren't equal to the best teams in the world, but they are very much competitive for that third Canadian spot.
  17. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    What "sense of entitlement"? They want to go to the Olympics and are trying to get the citizenship to be able to do that. That's no different than any other team or individual skater wanting to have whatever they need to be able to compete.
  18. intentions

    intentions New Member

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    Fair enough, other than needing preferential treatment to get there.
  19. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    As far as I can tell from the article, they are using all the legal possibilities that are available to them. I don't see how that is "preferential treatment".
  20. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    That only works if we find out that one of the parents of the other contenders launches a counteroffensive.

    :watch:
  21. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    I really do hope that Gilles/Poirier make the Olympic team and skate in Sochi. I enjoy their charisma and the fact that their skating is nothing like Virtue/Moir or Weaver/Poje. I really enjoy the variety in styles and programs that they bring to the table. If they can manage to do what they are capable of by being healthy, skating their best, earning that 3rd spot, and silencing their very vocal detractors in the process, what a great result!
  22. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    ^this exactly.

    One would think Piper charged across the border, tore Paul away from his former partner , and threw her to the wolves.

    Piper had a try out AFTER Paul had left Vanessa, and tried out with other potential partners.

    Piper brings energy and athleticism - and with time, they may make a great team.

    Or.....Paul may find another partner ..
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  23. smithie

    smithie New Member

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    Technically, yes.
  24. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    It's possible that one of them may have such intentions. :saint:
  25. reckless

    reckless Well-Known Member

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    Where's the popcorn? :watch:

    This really can't be compared to Tanith's situation. Maybe it's more analogous to Aliona Savchenko getting citizenship before Torino. Savchenko and Szolkowy had placed sixth at Worlds the year before (their first year competing), but they also medaled in the fall at the GP Final and at Europeans, so they looked more competitive for the podium at Torino.
  26. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    From Sun Valley Twitter feed this week:

    @sunvalley: We're sorry to announce that due to an injury @PiperGilles & @PaulDPoirier will not be performing at #SVOnIce on August 24.

    Not sure what this means for them as a team this season.
  27. marn

    marn New Member

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    I just watched a G/P video at her Twitter urging. Ms. Gilles is so looking forward to going to the Olympics and Mr. Poirier has a bit more humility in that regard.
    On another note, they did not skate their programs at Canada's HPC and won't be doing a competition until their GP in November. It seems that his injury has taken a long term toll.
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  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  29. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    A Hitchcock/Psycho free dance? That could be totally voidy or a complete trainwreck! :watch:
  30. Conga

    Conga New Member

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    Yes, it will be verrrry interesting to see them both in this type of role. I am looking forward to seeing it!
  31. shah

    shah Well-Known Member

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    Ooh, it sounds very promising! Don't forget that Piper Gilles has some experience with Hitchcock-inspired programmes - with Zach Donhue she would skate to a compilation of tunes from Vertigo and North by Northwest :).
  32. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    It sounds like it's going to be a comedy, so I vote trainwreck. :lol:

    Who has even tried comedy in ice dance besides R&K? Maybe it will actually be cool.
  33. joeperryfan

    joeperryfan Well-Known Member

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    Well Lobacheva & Averbukh... but it was unintentional... Now seriously, I think Z/G and Z/S fit the comedy category, don't you?

    If the choreography of G/P was being made by other choreographers I'd have more faith in it, as it is I'm afraid it will be cartoonish again...
  34. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Anyone heard anything about Piper's citizenship issue? Last I read here it seemed unlikely she'd get it in time for the Olys.
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  35. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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  36. marn

    marn New Member

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    A new article regarding Gilles and Poirier citizenship and competition plans in the torontoobserver.ca sports section.
    If they can't go to the Olympics because of citizenship they will go to Worlds or Four Continents
  37. marn

    marn New Member

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    G/P are on the SD start order list for a local Ontario competition called Octoberfest this weekend. His ankle must be recovering well now.
    Is anyone attending?
  38. LynnW

    LynnW Politiking for Purple

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    This is the Toronto Observer article marn referenced.
  39. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    The article says their goal is to make the Worlds team if Gilles doesn't get her passport by 13 January. (I'm not sure what that deadline is: final entries to the Olympics are due to SOCHI from the NOC's on 27 January.) I don't remember if Skate Canada is on record about not sending their Olympic team to Taipei for 4C's -- they didn't send it to Korea in 2010 -- but it's realistic for Crone* Gilles/Poirier to be focused on 4C's and Worlds, if V/M don't skate after the Olympics.

    *:eek:
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
  40. victoriajh

    victoriajh Well-Known Member

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    Is Vanessa back ;)