New CDN ice dance team - Gilles & Poirier

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by victorskid, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    I agree with much of this.

    I do think that Christopher Dean has done a few innovative things between the end of his skating career and now. For example, the House of Flying Daggers FD for Pratt and Gilles. But I also feel that his choreography for competitive programs have been largely tiresome and negligible. The rules and time have changed. Ice dance has changed. He hasn't kept up. Many of his fans (including Carol Lane, I presume) still hold him in very high esteem but I don't.

    On the other hand, it might be a bit of exaggeration to say he is "more repetitive than anyone" (Morozov would at least be in the run for that title), but Dean simply has not done very much work for competitive skaters. Whether he would be more or less repetitive if he had choreographed more competitive programs, no one knows.

    I actually kind of like Gilles/Poirier's new FD, as far away and blurry as it is. I like the music and some of the choreography. It looks a bit slow and more blade-on-ice content would be nice. Still, it is early and they can improve.

    Is Crone's skating skill better than Piper Gilles'? Yes, I think so. But Poirier is no longer skating with Crone. Whatever the reason for their split, it's over. What Piper and Paul can do now is only work hard and get better.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2012
  2. NorthernDancers

    NorthernDancers New Member

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    I agree with all of this. My hope was that G/P would spend a LOT of time, perhaps even skip last season, to focus on the fundamentals of unison, line, edge, etc, and looking more like an equal team. C/P benefitted from skating together since they were almost babies. It is unrealistic to expect that G/P would look like that, only better, in a couple of seasons. Piper has a lovely bright personality, and there is a spark and energy to the team. Fun and refreshing comes to mind. But to try to suggest that they are further than they are in development as a competitive ice dance team is just not right. And the idea that they have been designated as the "next ones" already given last year's Nationals results defies logic and angers many. I saw Minto a couple of weeks ago, and watched both the Junior and Senior dance events. Bent/MacKeen won the event handily. In my mind, if G/P do not spend some real time working on their basics, then they may very well be surpassed in a few years, once everyone gets bored of G/P "tricky" programs, by Bent/MacKeen who are making tremendous progress year over year, have the benefit of many years together, and have all the basics. They are only one example of a whole bunch of great Junior teams that are up and coming.

    I know it is naive to think this, but really each competition should be taken on its own. There should never be any pre-determined "next ones". I think Skate Canada will be MUCH better off with international results at the Junior and developing Senior ranks if they ensured judges only marked what they see on the day of competition. It should not matter which Club or who is the coach, or if they had past success, or .... It should be what is skated on the ice. It gives more integrity to the event for the skaters, is more exciting for the audience, and keeps the coaches improving and developing their skaters since everyone really does have a chance. It's also why Nationals should NEVER AGAIN be a divided event like last year.
     
  3. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    Pot kettle black?
     
  4. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    SC appointed V&M 'the next ones' after they won Jr Canadians and that didn't hurt them much. Same with B&K. :shuffle:

    As for the debate between Crone and Gilles, I think the only thing that Crone has over Gilles is edge quality. Both are very athletic girls but Gilles has the edge with toe point, posture and she is definitely more expressive than Crone. I also think Gilles & Poirier have better chemistry than Crone & Poirier did.
     
  5. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

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    SC could never have avoided designating V/M..half the world had them designated ... their talent marked them as extreme stand-outs more than any other Canadian team in my memory ( which is quite long )..So they should just be out of the equation.

    At any rate, I wasn't only referring to ice dance..

    Shae and Vic came up in what was still the wait your turn , heavy politicking era..( which I won't claim is entirely non-existent , nowadays..but is far , far less important than it was.)

    We saw, in 2011, the difference in perceptions of C/P at home and abroad. I'm just saying you never know how that will work out and SC , in years when they have multiple teams who are close in ability ,would do better to support them all in the areas of PR and opportunities , and let the chips fall where they may.

    I don't think it's right to base opinions of C/P and G/P on comparisons of the female partner only, and as if time had been standing still in the meantime.... I'm tired of it.
     
  6. dancefan17

    dancefan17 Member

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    A new video of G/P was posted in the Kiss n Cry area under the Thornhill/COS thread...was shot much closer and I could also hear the music better...just lovely....really liked it for so early in the season! I think it has tremendous potential.
     
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  8. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    Gilles/Poirier, like Crone/Poirier, are so special because they always offer something different, interesting, and fun from the other Canadian teams. I really love and appreciate their unique style! I love this music for them and the way they move to it! Can't wait to see how it evolves over the season and I wish them the very best of luck! :cheer2::swoon::encore:
     
  9. gofigure

    gofigure Active Member

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    Piper and Paul were by far the best in the ice dance competition today. I thought they were fabulous. The other dance teams performances were tame compared to the exuberance and execution of elements that P/P showed. They are headed for a brilliant future.
     
  10. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    That video showed a fabulous program, just lovely.
     
  11. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link with the closer view (audio didn't work for me tho' -- it was very muffled). I did hear the music faintly, and it does seem to work well with their choreo. ITA that Piper and Paul display excitement and exuberance, and their chemistry is palpable.
     
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    It's a nice program (was Dean involved in choreographing it, it's very much his style) but the difference in skill level between of them is unfortunately still very much apparent.

    I see a lot of potential though, if they can get it more polished.
     
  13. lavenderblue

    lavenderblue Active Member

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    According to this, Dean added some finishing touches but it was mostly the work of Lane and Razguljaevs.
     
  14. kppt

    kppt New Member

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    I was at Thornhill, and I enjoyed both G/P and P/I. IMO both teams skated the elements well, however P/I still are slower across the ice and you can hear the scratchiness that exists at times. Also their lifts were not as spectacular as G/P IMO. I'm choosing to focus on the incredible depth of ice dance in Canada, which I find truly exciting:)
     
  15. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    G&P Have a wonderful athleticism. They also have the advantage of being quite young so have time to grow with each other and for Piper to play a bit of catch up.
    I just love the way Paul looks on the ice and their visible energy and connection to each other.
     
  16. Daniskates93

    Daniskates93 Active Member

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    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  17. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    Are those your photos? They are great! The one where it looks like Piper is staring right into your eyes is awesome. :respec:
     
  18. Daniskates93

    Daniskates93 Active Member

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    Yep! They sure are! :)
    It occasionally freaks me out when skaters look right into my camera, but I think this one looks pretty neat! Thank you! :)
     
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Very nice photos indeed, thanks for sharing. :)
     
  20. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    For more reasons than one! You can really see the difference in depth of edge and lean of the leg between the 2.

    Thanks for the pics Daniskates92!
     
  21. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

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    Yeah I'm no teknik and I admit I noticed it too. Buuut, they have an indescribable likability and I am absolutely looking forward to their performances and career growth. I want them to do well and have a ball out there.
     
  22. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I think its their high energy and obvious compatibility. They are so full of life and it shows on the ice.
     
  23. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ITA -- G/P have this effervescent quality on and off the ice. Paul never seems to make a wrong move --he's brilliant. And Piper matches him well in many indefinable ways. The greater technical mastery surely will come for Piper with Paul's inestimable influence.

    Wow re Paul's lean and edge quality. Does it just take years of practice and off-ice dance training too, or is it an innate quality difficult to master?
     
  24. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    How could skating skills be innate?
     
  25. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, to answer my own question I think there are innate and magical qualities that some skaters possess that can't be taught (e.g., MKwan, Yu Na, Jason Brown, Johnny Weir, Jeremy Abbott). I think Paul possesses an innate quality of movement and musicality too, but obviously he and the other skaters mentioned have also benefited from years of training to master the technical skills.
     
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Everything can be taught.

    You might be more or less predisposed to certain skills through your body and personality types but whether that potential is fulfilled or not depends on the quality of your coaching and your work ethic.
     
  27. equatorial

    equatorial New Member

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    Yeah, like curing hemorrhoids with footwork and air kisses :lol:
     
  28. melbellah

    melbellah New Member

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    That was the first thing I thought of as well. Paul is so much deeper on his edge its crazy
     
  29. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    While quality coaching and work ethic are definitely necessary, especially to reach the highest levels of the sport, obviously talent must be part of the equation as well. I disagree that "everything can be taught." There are certain ineffable qualities that simply can not be taught. Look back over the history of figure skating. Ask a few coaches.

    Ha ha, equatorial. I wouldn't be surprised if footwork and air kisses influence some of the judges and maybe even a few fans. It seems to me that hemorrhoids is a whole 'nother can of worms, or dare I say "pain in the a**." Hey but watching some favorite figure skating tapes might be a panacea for some ailments, or at the least a distraction. ;)

    Back to Gilles/Poirier ...
     
  30. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Define talent.

    Which qualities? Which coaches?

    P.S. We were talking about basic skating which definitely can be taught and can be improved if you work on it.