New Australian Pattern Tests

Discussion in 'Moves In The Field' started by Aussie Willy, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    No, you are fooling yourself if you think performing singles requires day after day training.

    As i said, I have seen on multiple occasions the standard of adults in Australia, I have many at my home rink, and have also attended adult nationals many times to watch the top of their abilities.
    With exception of a few ex skaters that have retained their triples, the rest are performing at a level that requires once a week practice, the same as skate schoolers...

    There is no argument on that, you do not need day by day training to perform singles and a level one sit spin.
  2. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    I actually find this to be the most sensible approach.

    My talk about coffee skate was not meant to be Condescending. I was being serious, it is merely the name of a session they run at some of the Queensland and WA rinks. It is simply an adult only session, in at least one of these rinks I know the adults named it Coffee Skate themselves...

    Unfortunately, we don't have enough ice in many of our rinks and this is not a problem we can easily get around...
  3. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    So how do you think lower-level kid skaters do those things? By showing up once a week at the rink for 15 minutes?

    I don't care how many times you have seen adults skate, you obviously know next to nothing about how adults train or what adult skating requires. And your attitude is just about insulting as your pride in your lack of knowledge. If you are actually a technical specialist, I sincerely hope you are not being assigned to any adult competitions.
  4. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    YES, that is how the kids do those things.
    As a coach, you never tell skate schoolers to train more than twice a week.

    Any coach who is forcing that on a skate school level is doing it purely for the money....

    Almost half of the skate schoolers who enter the aussie skate comps learn their programs during aussie skate as part of the curriculum and perform them just off that alone...
  5. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    For someone who has only posted about 16 posts in all on FSU, you certainly have made some pretty patronising and disrespectful comments.

    As an adult skater myself, I certainly don't view myself as an athlete, but if I was training for a test (having worked through half of Novice dance), I think I would be fully entitled to participate in any figure session because that is where I am going to get the best training conditions to work on my test. And there are many adult skaters doing the same. Thus I pay for the session, I pay for coaching and I pay for the test. My money is worth the same as every other skater and I follow the same rules. And that includes when I pay money to clubs and associations to do competitions and tests.

    Recently test standards were set for adults who do plan to compete so they are going to have to go through the same as all those other skaters doing the tests. Maybe some of the adults may like to work through all those new tests to the senior patterns, because whilst they may not be able to get the same technical content to do the programs, they will be able to do the patterns and achieve something for themselves.

    There are certain things I do draw the line on when it comes to adults and I have had more than my fair share of issues with regards to adult skating. But to say that all adults should only be entitled to skate in coffee club, really is pretty offensive.
    hanca and (deleted member) like this.
  6. Bunny Hop

    Bunny Hop Accept no substitutes

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    Coffee club sessions usually happen during the day, when most adults are at work. I don't see that many rinks would be prepared to offer adult skating sessions at times that when working adults are able to attend. Not everyone has flexible working hours.

    I'm happy to admit to being a recreational adult skater (in the sense that I don't test or compete), but that doesn't mean I don't want to improve my skills, and I definitely need more than one session a week to do that. I've done the oone session a week thing in the past and ended up giving up because I was frustrated that I wasn't able to get any better. Now that I can skate several times a week, and can see progress, I'm a much happier skater.
  7. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    I'm sorry, my poor wording on that one. I would not intend to confine all adult skaters to only coffee skate.
    I agree with everything you say and am in full support of the new testing system.

    What I am saying is that adult and competitive skaters on the same Ice is a negative to both parties.
    Obviously there is little we can do to facilitate that in Australia with our limited ice availability however would no substituting one of your training sessions to a coffee skate session help you out more.

    It would give you clearer ice to train, often more affordable as well. Also puts you in a training session with other adult skaters.
    I am not saying you can never skate on the figure sessions, if you have the test requirements and have paid for it there is no one who can stop you... But a couple of sessions a week where we can split adults and competitive skaters apart is a good thing is it not?

    And I hardly think my post count on a figure skating forum affects my credibility here?
  8. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    I see your point about the poor timing of most adult skate sessions.

    My overall point is that adult and competitive skaters need their own ice, it works better for both parties. Unfortunately it is a pipe dream with limited ice time in Australia.

    I was merely proposing the <b>addition</B> of coffee skate sessions as a half way solution...
  9. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    I understand where AustTech is coming from even though it was badly worded ;).. Senior and Junior level skaters should have their own Ice and they DO want to go to the Olympics or worlds, they NEED space and to be stoping half way through programs or constantly pull out of jumps because people are in the way (Kiddies or Adults or even primary level skaters) there is a kid at the rink my kids skate at who is primary level and I can't tell you the amount of accidents this kid has caused to the higher levels.

    We have far to many people on in the figure sessions and it's the High level skaters who really suffer.

    But the rinks need money to survive so the sessions are packed :(
  10. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    How naive are you? Do you really think the rinks are going to create separate sessions for adults and elite skaters? If you have any knowledge of how most rinks operate in Australia, then that will never happen.

    When it comes to credibility, I think you have already proven by the number of patronising comments you have made, including the one above, that it is seriously in doubt. You have already p*ssed off a number of people with the little time you have spent on the forum. But well we can't stop people like you from participating in this forum, even though we think you probably belong in another forum where your level of comment would be more suitable.
  11. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Oh, sorry, guess I'll just go sit on my arse for most of the week and my loop jump will magically appear all by itself, right?

    My problem with your coffee skate attitude is that you imply adult skaters should not bother skating more than twice a week, that we shouldn't work hard at our skating, that we shouldn't bother with private lessons.

    I am not going to be told what to do by you or by anyone. I skate four days a week, I have a half-hour private lesson each week, and I don't care if you think that's a waste of time, because it's not for me. I don't care if you think that adult skating should just be a "social" thing, I will continue to compete.
  12. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    no but one or two training sessions should help you out with a loop....

    I was not implying that they shouldn't bother skaters twice a week. I was implying both ways. Adults don't need the competitive skaters forcing you out of the way of their jumps every other minute because you too have things you want to work on.
    Both genres need their own ice.

    Adult skating is a social event.... I am not saying you cannot compete.
    What I am saying is that adult skating is more about, having fun for people who love to skate, meeting people at training and competitions who share your love of the sport, and achieving your own goals along the way.
    It is not about training everyday, constantly pushing yourself to exhaustion to improve, sacrificing your social life to do so.
  13. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    If i had to skate in a coffee club session, I would stop skating. Firstly, because I have work during the day, and secondly, i find it so unmotivating to be working on doubles when people are working on 3 turns etc.

    Obviously adult skaters aren't aiming for the olympics, however, I don't think there is anything wrong with being an adult and training 5-6 days a week. It IS good for the sport in general, not just in australia, to have adult skaters that are able to work to a higher level.

    I agree that there should be a level requirement for sessions, ive said this before (in this thread even probably), but, if it means that your choices of sessions is cut down from 5 to 1, then, thats not good.

    A session for just jnrs/seniors wouldn't sustain itself, as there aren't enough people at that level to warrant it and having an elitist attitude about beginners sure isn't going to help draw people into the sport.
  14. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    I believe I had already expressed the issue in that Australia does not currently have the capacity to support this in the below post.

    The fact is, coffee skate and other adult only sessions do happen in Australia, just not as often as is needed to fully support adult skaters.
  15. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Coffee club is intended though for adult beginners. do you propose that adults working on double jumps etc train with the adults or the real athletes? Or is there another type of skater we can be heaped in with?
  16. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    We should all take up curling. Because that is more suited to the way adults should train and it is very social and fun. :D
  17. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    oh man! why didn't you suggest this 3 weeks ago. Time to send those $800 skates back to the uk ;)
  18. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    Yeh I guess so... But the sessions have at most 5 adults on them... You basically have clear ice, if you were to substitute it with just one or two or ur weekly sessions? wouldn't that make for a good training session? no elite forcing you to move for jumps?
    I am not saying you can only train on those sessions, more that you should be taking advantage of them if you have the opportunity...


    You would be surprised, the demographic for curling is generally younger.

    I am not saying you can only take part in lawn bowls style sports though...
  19. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    Anyway we seem to have been off topic, my bad there I guess...

    Anyone have any comments on my post about the actual patterns?
  20. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Oh, so that's the secret. Just one or two sessions and I will magically have it! All that work my coach and I have put in on it so far is totally useless, I should have known that it was just one or two that would have done it for me! :rolleyes:

    I mean, do you even know what you're writing?

    But that is what you are saying. And for someone who claims to be in Australian figure skating, you are astonishingly ignorant of the ice time situation. We will NEVER have Snr/Jnr only sessions. We will NEVER have adult-only sessions. EVER.

    Getting out of the way of other people is a part of the rhythm of a session. Whether it is an adult getting out of the way of a Novice, a Senior getting out of the way of an adult, or a Senior getting out of the way of a Junior, that's how these sessions work.

    I'm sorry that you're so closed-minded that you think so. But that's what it is to me. That is the kind of person I am. I have finally, finally, after 22 years, found a sport that I am GOOD at and can do and I love. If you think I'm going to just treat that casually, well, I could tell you where to shove it, but I don't think it would be considered very polite.

    I will push myself, I will push my boundaries, and if that means I end up in the ER again, well, so be it. That's what I have Ambulance Cover for.

    ^

    This!

    (Well, except the doubles part. I will be delighted if I ever land doubles.)
  21. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    A sport you're good at?

    You're talking about needing more than two sessions a week to do a single loop?

    And your talk of it will never happen? perhaps this is why aus figure skating is so stagnant to change, because people like you are so unwilling to negotiate.

    There are adult on sessions in Australia, that is what coffee skate is.
    There are not any jnr/snr, but there are novice-senior sessions in Australia.
    There are also pair/dance only sessions at some rinks.

    I am not the one ignorant of session times, you are. I know each rink is different, and none is perfect, but going off of information from your rink only doesn't really fit a statement on the whole of Australia's ice time.

    AS I HAVE SAID NEARLY 5 TIMES NOW, we don't have the facilities to support the ice times we need as yet, but we need to make use of what we have. And for an adult skater to look down on and out right shun the adult only coffee skate sessions,, well at least you understand the way I look down on and shun your right to be considered an athlete...
  22. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Damn I am really really sorry. :lol: All my fault that you spent that money. :shuffle:
  23. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone here has dissed on the coffee club sessions. All they have said is they either can't make them or that they are not practical for what they need to achieve what they want to do with their skating. That is your interpretation.

    Keep on feeding us ......
  24. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    saying that if you had to skate on a coffee skate session you would quit goes along the lines of outright looking down on the session.

    It wasn't as if i was saying you could only skate that one session, in which case you points of the hours of the session would have been valid.
  25. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    I absolutely agree... I dont know why or how they were even shortlisted to get the scholarship, let alone winning it. That team was a joke and didnt deserve any sort of scholarship. I was very surprised that other exceptional upcoming skaters such as david or jordan didnt get any sort of scholarship

    It is the same situation as 2010 when callum and maggie won the scholarship when they knew that they were splitting up after nationals. Im sure P.L had something to do with that.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  26. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    I dont actually have an issue with "elites". The skaters at Ice House are doing double axels at the most. And only a couple attempt them. The sessions aren't even crowded, and, as far as i know, there aren't any "adult" sessions before 7.15, or after 8pm (The times I am am able to skate).


    Have you ever been to the Ice House? If not, which rink do you skate at? You seem to have a lot of advice for people about rinks you know nothing about.
  27. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    :watch:
  28. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    Some people had better be careful what they are posting. :D
  29. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    I don't know about Maggie and callum so much.

    But yes skaters like Jordan Dodds and David Kramer missed out.
    David came 2nd in junior and performed to almost his best at a jgp.
    And Jordan managed to get junior titles in singles and pairs. We're they even short listed
  30. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    I would disagree. Canterbury has a Novice, Junior, Senior session twice a week for 45mins. The time Sucks it's 3.15 - 4.00 so most kids are still making there way home from school BUT there would still be around 10-15 skaters on in this session, this is still mixed skating with Singles, Pairs and Dance on the same session but at least it's manageable.

    How is this for backward there is a session on a Sat morning from 5:30 - 7:30 it's an Open session anyone can skate. 5.30 - 6.00 is mostly juniors and seniors after about 6:00 it starts to fill up with Adults and lower level skaters. 7.30 is an ice cut and after that is only Pre-primary and below 7:30 - 9:30 .... the lower level skaters have more Ice time at our rink than the elite, how does that work? The elite are basically forced to be at the rink at 5.30 if they want good Ice.

    Our rink has 1 dance session for an hour on a Monday night and thats it no Pairs sessions even though at one stage there were 3 pairs teams skating in the session (junior, Senior level) talk about a Danger Zone. The pairs and dance (at elite level) have been told they are not allowed to lift in most afternoon sessions and they are not able to go at any speed. I have seen Cheltize pull out of jumps time after time.

    This argument is not getting anyone anywhere. We don't have great Ice time available thats it! As a result our international skaters suffer - what they would give for 45mins a day of quality Ice :rolleyes:
  31. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    And who are you to determine what adult skating is and isn't about?
  32. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    Sk8ingcoach Callum and Maggie never won a Scholarship - Maybe you should get your facts right before you so publicly talk about something that is not correct!!
    :watch:
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  33. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Elite skaters should move to Perth. 3 rinks. All empty during the day.
  34. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    :rofl:
  35. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    Or callums mum will get u :p
    jamesy and (deleted member) like this.
  36. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    :lynch::rofl:
  37. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    It is unfortunate we don't have enough ice. However I think that Canterbury splitting the sessions is a good start
  38. can'tsk8

    can'tsk8 New Member

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    David did not skate well at Nationals and Jordan skated the best skate he has ever had in singles, don't know about pairs. They are both deserving of the scholarship but what about the Kerrys or Mark Webster or Nicholas Fernadez, Brooke lee Han! There are so many skaters that could use financial assistance, I think David has already had the scholarship once. It is pretty poor form to take a scholarship in the way the dance team did! Who decides who get the scholarships?
  39. Jumpin Bean

    Jumpin Bean New Member

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    The only way to improve skating in Australia is to follow the lead of our number 1 dance team.........
    We do not have the number of skaters to support true elite training programs
    We do not have skaters with skills high enough to interest top coaches moving here.
    We will always be minnows in the world of figure skating.
    Few (not none) of our coaches have the skills and connections to keep skaters at the levels they need to move over top 10-15.

    We can quibble about mixed ice sessions, segregated sessions, whatever....but the skaters who train here continue to juggle school with training- this will continue to impede their progress.

    The scholarship program is a joke- lets hope a few of the new ISA committee members can get some legitimacy into selection criteria, selection panel and the whole process.

    And sadly AusTechSpec I do know what I am talking about because I have seen many brilliant skaters from Australia held back because the family finances crumbled. I also know the sacrifices that are being made by the team training overseas- 6 hours training 5-6 days/week, working 3-4 days week, university study and currently looking for another job because 20th at worlds does not ensure OWI funding beyond "services".
  40. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    Skaters O/S still do school and work
    http://www.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    There is more to it than just that.

    2011
    Callum Bullard & Veera Kestila
    Lochran Doherty & Hanna Sparke
    Tahlia Gill - Queensland
    2010
    Cheltzie Lee & Kalani Crane
    Darian Kaptich - Queensland
    2009
    Oliver Porter & Zara Pasfield - National
    David Kranjec - Queensland
    2008
    Jaimee Nobbs - National
    Andrew Dodds & Taylor Dean - Queensland
    2007
    Matthew Precious - National
    Tina Wang - Queensland

    Looks like a good list and quite a mix, did all of these skaters use the money for what it was intended??
    From the website "The principal objective is to provide training scholarships on an annual basis for up and coming Australian skaters figure skaters so they are able to undertake comprehensive training programmes with elite coaches overseas"

    Who is New in ISA? As far as I know there has been no communication yet as to who is even on the committee and the AGM was over a month ago, have I missed it.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012