New Australian Pattern Tests

Discussion in 'Moves In The Field' started by Aussie Willy, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Have any other Australian posters had a look at the new tests? They are on the ISA website and come in after 1st May.

    For those outside Australia they are based on the US pattern tests.

    I had a look at them today - well the first 3 ones. The more advanced ones are quite difficult. But I think it is about time they developed tests that will work on skating skills and hopefully create a better standard of basic skating.
     
  2. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    I Agree, It seems our program componant mark always lets us down and skatings skills are a big part of that,
    Some of our high level skaters don't know how to use their edges :shuffle: hopefully these tests will help in that area and help produce better skaters all round!
     
    AndyWarhol and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Bunny Hop

    Bunny Hop Perpetually learning Dutch Waltz

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    I looked, but I was only really concerned with what they did with the Preliminary test - and was hugely relieved that they didn't change it, as I need to pass it in order to be able to test dance. Which is more problematic than it should be!

    But I agree with what you're saying in principle.
     
  4. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Trying to improve the level of skating is always a good thing.
     
  5. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    Cheers for the heads up, Aussie. I'm hoping to test Preliminary at some point this year so I need to be paying attention to these.

    I have to say, I like the edge patterns in the Aussie Skate program and think they set up for the edge patterns at Preliminary quite well. Thoughts? Should they have more edge patterns in Aussie Skate?
     
  6. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    what are the edge patterns in aussie skate.. i did aussie skate in 1996.. i think all the tests/levels are different now.
     
  7. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    There is enough in Aussie Skate to cover the basics.

    Preliminary hasn't changed. It is only Elementary and above.
     
  8. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    I find it offensive that a skating mother can criticise the high level skaters when she probably doesn't have any idea about skating skills ??????
     
  9. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    Well it's easy to offend you! :rofl:

    So your assuming that because i might "just" be a Parent i have no skill's of observation? what a narrow minded thought?? Maybe Im Kristi Yamaguchi ‏"Skating Mum" :lol:

    Thanks for the laugh!!
     
  10. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    There was nothing offensive in that post at all. It is pretty widely acknowledged that Australian skaters need to work on their skating skills and many think that these new pattern tests are a step in the right direction. Oz_skating_mum is pretty much reiterating what many others, including judges, coaches and other parents, are saying.
     
  11. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Well as you are Australian i very much doubt you are Kristi Yamaguchis mum. But as i am an Australian coach, with high level students ( not naming ) i find it offensive that u can critisise my students. And if your such such an expert in observation, then why dont you coach if you think you know everything ???
     
  12. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    I dont think its really offensive to say australian skaters dont have the greatest skating skills... anyone can see that by looking at the results of international competition...
     
  13. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    It was just the manner that Oz skating mum made her statement. " some of our high level skaters don't know how to use their edges" it sounds as though she thinks she knows better than the coaches, or better than the skaters and that she could do better everyone. Yes, it is appropriate to say that our top skaters are not perfect at the different turns, but its sounds like OZ skating Mum thinks she knows better than everyone
     
  14. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    sk8ingcoach - I think you read too much into it. It didn't seem like there was any ill will towards Australian skaters in the comment, just that their edges are not always the strongest. Hopefully the pattern tests will help that and their PCS will rise.

    I've read so many times on FSU posters saying even Olympic medalists don't know how to use their edges. I think saying the same thing of lower ranked skaters isn't really out of line. I greatly enjoyed the Australian skaters at 4CCs, and hope to see more of them, but it is true their edge quality is not that of the top skaters. Heck- many Americans lack it, and they've done moves in the field tests...
     
  15. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    So would it be better if it came from judges and other coaches? Because they could say the same thing.

    I think you are being way too sensitive and taking it very personally. Because myself and others here haven't read it that way at all. And it was not directed at any skaters in particular. Just a general comment about our standard of skating in Australia.
     
  16. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    You caught me out .. Not Kristi Yamaguchi.

    Coach you only need to look at our program component marks on the international level to see they need work, our skaters come back from O/S told to work on Skating skills, skating skills, skating skills. (which was my original comment :))

    We have very few skaters who have beautiful edge work of course there are always some but .. Please don't take offence, this is something our skaters need to work on and bring up our levels YAY and these pattern tests can only be good for this country.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  17. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    it would have been more appropriate to be said from a coach or judge.. not from a mother.

    IMO it sounded as though she thought she was better than all the australian coaches and that she should be teaching students how to use their edges properly
     
  18. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    Is this the British skating thread I've popped into?
     
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  19. FigureSpins

    FigureSpins New Member

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    No, it didn't sound like that at all; it's a point that can be made in many of the newer ISU member programs' skaters. I remember the first Pairs team from India who competed internationally and what critiques came from that performance.

    I think you overreacted to some perceived slight, which reflects more about you than about them. As others have pointed out, this is an area of development for many skaters in countries with few elite coaches/skaters and they do have to be challenged to improve. That's difficult to do without any training partners or picayune coaches. Anne Schelter has been brought in by ISA to conduct stroking and edge workshops for the elite skaters, so the ISA is addressing the issue.

    Rather than sticking your head in the sand, I wouldn't be quite so defensive or arrogant; it's a common situation, even in the US, for skaters to be criticized for their posture, stroking and edgework. The US Moves tests were introduced to address this gap, so it's a good step for the Australian federation to take.

    Parents and skating fans can recognize good edges and stroking, even though they may not be able to make corrections to the skater's technique. To take every word as a severe criticism is a sign of inexperience as a coach and an insult to the person making the comment. For all you know, that person may be a former skater themselves that CAN recognize areas of improvement, moreso than even you. Just because s/he is a parent doesn't make their opinions or observations any less accurate. I have several skating parents who actually study skating to help their skaters understand why I'm so picky about pointed toes, body position and extension.

    Coaches who have confidence in their abilities and their skaters tend to react with poise and dignity, not vehemence and dismissal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  20. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    FigureSpins - very well said. I totally agree.

    Sk8ingcoach - you really need to be careful coming on these forums and getting up in arms about what someone says. At the end of the day the rest of us are looking at what you are saying and coming up with perceptions of yourself, not the person you are making comments about.
     
  21. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    :rofl:
     
  22. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    As im pretty sure i know who OZ_skating_mum is, i know that she is JUST a parent. Yes she may watch a lot of skating but that doesnt mean she knows anything about turns, patterns and edges. She doesn't know whats involved. I wouldn't have reacted to this if it were a coach, or an official, but from a mother it doesnt seem appropriate.

    Im not trying to come off as an angry person or an arrogant person, i just didnt think it was appropriate for a mother to comment about high levels skaters saying that their standard isn't high enough.

    She should know that in Australia we don't have the facilities or the money to produce internationally high ranking skaters. All of our previous and current highest level skaters ( cameron medhurst, Carrs, Cheltzie lee, Brenden) All spend lots of time in the US. So although the new Australian patterns are a step in the right direction, i dont believe we are going to see too much of a difference in our skaters because we just dont have the facilities and money to nurture our skaters.

    Sorry if i came off a bit arrogant and demanding, i was just stating my opinion
     
  23. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    This is a fan board. Most of the posters here are fans, not officials. And yet what we do on this board is talk about skating- and often that is in the form of a critique.

    What she said was perfectly valid, so she clearly knows SOMETHING. "JUST" a parent doesn't mean she isn't educated in the sport. Many people who are just fans know A LOT about what proper technique should look like. She never said she was able to teach it, or she could do better than a coach. But pointing out that the skill is lacking doesn't require anything more than knowledge of the sport.
     
  24. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    I will agree that pointing out that a skill is lacking doesn't take much knowledge. But I don't think i parent would no much about technique. Im sure she wouldn't be able to tell me all the different turns and edges, or how to do them, or what they look like. She just likes the ones that flow nicely and look pretty. Edges take a lot of technique to do correctly which im sure she wouldnt know about.

    Im not trying to get angry, but as a coach im just stating how i interpreted her comment, as it seemed like she thought she could do it better than high level skaters
     
  25. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I have to comment. How do you know that she just likes the pretty and flowy turns?
    I read nothing in the original post that gave me the impression you got. IMHO your post reads like you know who she is and just don't like her.
     
  26. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Well i do know who she is, and I don't have anything against her. I just didnt like that the critical comment of high levels skaters in australia ( who i teach) came from a parent who doesnt know much about skating.
     
  27. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    I'm currently at Aussie Skate Free Skate 3, and have a flip and loop fully rotated (I just can't land them on one foot) so with the obvious view to my ISA tests, Coach and I started working on the Preliminary edges recently.

    Coach also showed me the new Elementary patterns. We went right through them and did them all.

    I think they're pretty good. The Elementary pattern didn't contain anything that I didn't already know how to do, it just requires a greater level of control and execution. I can do them all roughly, it's just a case of polishing them. So I don't think the pattern tests are demanding anything over the top.

    I can see how these will benefit. For example, too many skaters learn the rough three-turns and then continue on with those without working to hone and refine the turn. Guilty as charged over here - I have issues holding the back inside edge on the end of a forward outside three-turn, but for the Elementary patterns, holding that edge is paramount.
     
  28. can'tsk8

    can'tsk8 Member

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    Australia does have the odd high level skater with great edges, sadly in international competitions they may not be marked fairly because the perception is Aussies don't skate well. Some skaters may lack the big jumps but they do have quality skating skills and will not be rewarded for them, unfortunately the component score can be subjective. I also do not think anything oz skating mum said was offensive or intended to be offensive.
     
  29. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    Sk8ingcoach, just a couple of things.

    Im sorry that you can't see or choose not to see what I said. It seems you are the only person who sees it the way you do.

    I'm also saddened to think that you as a coach don't feel that better edge work and skating skills will improve our results much O/S as you said in a previous post. I choose to disagree

    You say you know who I am thats great, I'm not hiding.

    But let me tell you you don't know whats in my head, the same as I don't know what is in your head and what I or anyone can and can't learn, don't try and dumb me or anyone down by telling me I can't know something because I'm not a coach. Do I know what a forward pass is in football ... yeah .. do I play the game .. no.. am I coach of football ... no ... well how can I know when it's a forward pass .. I can see it, I can learn thats a forward pass, the same as I can see a three turn, or a rocker, or a bracket and I learn what makes it so, fortunately I spend a bit of time with Dancers so that helps, could I teach someone how to do it .. no way!! But I can see it.

    It's clearly obvious that you have made up your mind to take offence where none was intended, I can't help that.

    Good luck and have a great day!
     
  30. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    I have studied the patterns, and i believe that they are a step in the right direction. But i do not believe they will make a considerable difference in our international results.

    I believe that you know what the different turns are, i dont believe you would be able to identify a specific turn when you see one.

    But this isnt about me criticising you. This is about how i just interpreted your original statement a little different from others.