Nathalie and Fabian

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by arakwafan2006, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    I am sure that people will never agree as to whether they love or hate the new programs from this team. One thing that I have always criticized this team for was that Fabian's expression was the worst of all the male ice dancers. Nathalie carried the team in my opinion and she also technically was better. I still believe there is more road to travel with Fabian's positions and his one skating when he and Nathalie are not touching but am I the only one who thinks that his presentation is MUCH improved?

    Also, I take my hat off to Igor. His professionalism shines through by the fact that he is able to help this team AND let them remain true to their creative vision

    Thoughts?
  2. MissJD

    MissJD Member

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    I love the programs! (And I'm not usually a fan of this team, but I really like them this season! Go figure...) In the sd I had no clue that Fabian was even there, because Nathalie was selling it! She has such a presence and personality, that it's easy to overlook him. That being said, I did actually notice him in the fd, and thought it was lovely. I looove that upside down lift. It's one of my favorites of the season from any team! As to Fabian's improvement, sorry, I can't really comment on that because I haven't really paid him much attention in the past.

    I'm also glad Igor didn't change the programs. They put a lot of time and consideration into designing that FD, and I found it to be really effective at conveying the story.
  3. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I don't find Fabian at all lacking in expression, certainly not compared to "all the male ice dancers". I agree that Nathalie is a fantastic actress on ice, so in comparison he can look more muted, but if he were to match her it would be too much. Technically, my impression has always been that he's a better dancer but not as consistent.

    As for their programs, it seems an almost annual tradition for people to say that their new free dance isn't as good as their previous ones, so I'm glad that this time more fans are connecting with their FD right off the bat.

    Personally I love them and really want them to medal in Sochi.
  4. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of how one loves or hates their programs, one has to admit that their programs are distinctive and unlike anyone else's. Nowadays how many skaters, especially in ice dance, can say that? Especially in the environment of pressure from both the meticulous rules and the conservative-minded judges who want to see everyone do the same thing so that it is easier to judge and less controversial? They take full charge of the themes and concepts of their free dance programs and do not let their coaches dictate what's best for them. How many skaters nowadays can do that? Pechalat and Bourzat embody the idea (gasp) that there is more to skating and competition than winning. They care a lot about what they are skating to. Perhaps that is a luxury most competitors cannot afford and I don't blame them, but my hats off to these two for being their own skaters.
  5. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    Love EVERYTHING they have done.
    I remember watching them at the Worlds in 04' & having a terrible Free Dance with several trips. They have come a long way.
    With D/W & V/M you know that 99% of the time they will skate clean yet with Nathalie & Fabian it's edge of your seat stuff.
    D/W & V/M = Roger Federer in his prime
    Nathalie & Fabian = Andre Agassi in his prime...............you never knew what you were gonna get !
  6. dcnative

    dcnative New Member

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    I just don't find Fabian to be lacking. I do think that while he is good, technically, he has problems with consistency. I think that he does a great job of being the "support" for their elaborate and difficult lifts, without exhibiting any signs of strain. One thing that I really love about this team, and what makes them my favorite team is that they are distinctly a man and a woman dancing on the ice. I find that Fabian's masculinity really stands out among the ice dancers, and I appreciate that. On the downside, if there is one, it makes them stand out because they don't exhibit matching lines, etc. Nathalie's expression is one of a true performer and I think they use their strengths well.I don't understand the assessments of them being subpar technically. Unfortunately, the judging system we have is so biases/flawed and inconsistent in ice dancing that unless they mop up the ice, I can't understand their placements, most of the time.
  7. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Member

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    While I agree with most of what you said, when have Natalie or Fabien ever been robbed of a certain placement by wrongful judging? I cant remember an instance. I do remember many thinking Weaver & Poje deserved the bronze at the 2012 Worlds instead of them though.
  8. dcnative

    dcnative New Member

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    I'm not saying that they have ever been robbed, necessarily. I'm saying that the judging system seems to be inconsistent/biased toward certain skaters. If you, or anybody, can explain what was lacking in their Finnstep at CoC, recently, I would appreciate it because it would help to give me some perspective. I have read that the judges at CoC were judging the Finnstep sections "very harshly" so overall scores were lower than they were at the two previous GP events. Is that true? If so, why judge "harshly" at one GP event and not at others?
  9. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    How are the other ice dance teams not distinctly a man and a woman? :confused:

    That said, I do find Fabian to be pretty sexy on the ice.
  10. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    I can think of a few times Nathalie & Fabian were harshly treated. I would have had them with a European Bronze in 08' & Silver in 09'. If you can say robbed or not..................Who knows.
    The 2012 Worlds IMO was correct. W/P are good skaters but I felt that Nathalie & Fabain just edged it. Mostly in the SD.
    W/P have a lot of fan's just like D/W & V/M. I was raised in both the US & UK but watch feel like I have to stand up for the European skaters a little more.
    Me biased ?.............YES !
  11. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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    I think you could make a strong case for them deserving bronze at Worlds 2010... and even with the fall in 2011 I would have had them ahead of the Shibs, the PCS marks the Shibs were getting that season were a joke.
  12. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    They should have finished higher at 2009 Euros. But the issue with P/B, IMO, is more the marks than the placements - both when they were the second French team and how far behind D/W and V/M they were before Fabian's injury.

    Re 2012, while I think W/P are lovely skaters, they did not appear to be at P/B's level in 2012. And I suspect that if, say, a Russian team had skated their Je Suis Malade, people would have called it overwrought or over the top.
  13. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    a) Do you think that's because D/W and V/M were overmarked or that these two were undermarked? Or both?

    b) Is this a discusison thread or a fan thread? Because I don't want to be annoying if it's the latter. Either way, my favourite program they did was their 07/08 Flamenco OD and their 08/09 EX ("Andy"). And I find I'm rooting for French skaters this season simply because of their federation's less than desirous tactics.
  14. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    a. both, but mainly the former.

    b. I vote for it to be a discussion thread.
  15. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    And I suspect more people would be saying what a genius program it was and how the classical Russian style was back in full-force. I also suspect their PCS would be higher as well.
  16. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Because the programs of the recent Russian ice dance teams have garnered such enthusiastic responses?

    I was not referring the judging and politikking but to public and fan reactions.
  17. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    It would have much more enthusiasm if they did that routine to Je Suis Malade in the same understated costumes that W/P wore. I still think B/S's costumes helped them a lot last season because it was much more in vogue to what is in style now (that and their routines were better received and W/P and P/B were both suffering injuries while the Shibs got dumped and I/K were just not in top form).
  18. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

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  19. Stephanatic

    Stephanatic New Member

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    I'm so happy that Nathalie & Fabian will continue skating in shows. Wishing both of them success in all their new endeavors!
  20. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

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    I am too, Stephanatic! I think their skating is really well suited to the professional world. Hope to see some professional competitions crop up in the coming years as an alternative to what the ISU is offering... I think Nathalie and Fabian would really excel as professional competitors.
  21. Fialka88

    Fialka88 New Member

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    How lovely would it be if Nathalie and Fabian were on Ice Age: Cup of Pros, assuming Averbukh ever decides to make a new season. I could see Nathalie in particular really embracing the challenge of portraying different characters and constantly switching partners.
  22. irinayunafanatc

    irinayunafanatc Member

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    I already miss them. I am sure they will be amazing pro skaters.
  23. Lety

    Lety Member

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    That's a great news that they will keep skating in shows! :D I'm going to miss them in the competitions though...
  24. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    ^ Glad to hear that. I've always loved this team & their creativity.
  25. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

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    Glad you all enjoyed it! I think Nathalie and Fabian would be perfectly suited to Cup Of Professionals/Ice Age! They'd also do VERY well in Stars On Ice or something like that, definitely. :)
  26. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I thought they should have won the SD in 2011, and if they had, they would have won the bronze despite the fall. I also think they should have won the FD in Saitama.
  27. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Over Davis/White - maybe, but Virtue/Moir had such a sublime SD that season despite not having skated it much that I don't believe they should have been second in the SD.

    Perhaps. Ilynikh/Katsalapov didn't skate their FD as well as in the Olympics, but neither did Pechalat/Bourzat, in my opinion. They had the highest technical base value, but their skating seemed a bit heavy/forced and slow compared to Olympics (almost the same as I/K). I wouldn't have minded if Weaver/Poje had won overall. Unlike most people here, I don't think that Weaver's skating skills are that weak. I am not an expert at all, but it's all the people who say how comparatively weak her basics are against people who have noticed how much she has improved, including supposed experts like Kurt Browning and Tracy Wilson (well, they are Canadian of course), also Tarasova who praised their exceptional skating skills when commentating the Olympics (when she had only uncomplimentary words to say about Anna Cappellini's skating skills), not to mention other former and current skaters/choreographers/coaches who had only good things to say about their skating.
  28. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I think Weaver's skills have improved -- if Pechalat can come as far as she has, so can Weaver -- and I think they're far better than Cappellini's, but they're not as good as P/B's. I didn't find P/B's skating heavy at Saitama, but I also didn't see it live, and video can be misleading.

    Weaver and Poje had a FD that was one risk after another, considering how tightly together they skated, and I did see that one live.

    I don't see what you see in Virtue/Moir's 2011 FD: I think they skated through the pattern dance. But they skated closely together and had wonderful unison.
  29. rollingrace

    rollingrace Member

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    Win the SD over V&M and D&W? Wow. This is the first time I have heard anyone say anyone should have beaten D&W or V&M (besides each other) in any program since 2010. What made their SD better than V&M and D&W in your view.

    I also agree that Weaver & Poje totally should have won the 2014 worlds instead of the Italians. Pechalat & Bourzat 2nd behind I&K in the FD was probably how I would have had it too, and probably 2nd overall behind W&P.