Nagasu- can she win or medal at the Olympics if she skates her best

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by KimGOAT, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I feel the opposite. I think the Carmen program was inferior to the Geisha program. Perhaps because I didn't like the cuts to Carmen. It failed to build to a climax which Carmen should do. Whereas Geisha had tension and drama to the music cuts.
  2. Amy03

    Amy03 Member

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    Take a look at Miki's international results, and compare, you will find out that the ONLY big title Miki has beside her two WC titles, is her 4CC title from 2011!!!
  3. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Miki needed superior skaters like Mao and Yuna to make mistakes to win her two World titles. Otherwise no matter how she skated she wasn't going to beat those two because she just isn't as good.
  4. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    If she makes it to the Games and is at her very best I believe Mirai has a fighting chance for the podium. At least bronze.
  5. torren

    torren New Member

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    It means you consider kim as the best competitior? But yhere are some greaters who have better career than she has, 1 ogm, 2 world titles. she has not enough number of big titles to consider as the best competitior. well It is great that kim was always on the podium in whole career includes world championship. It can mean that she had chance to win more world titles. But unfortunately kim lost some chances in WC where she was enough to win like she was at 2008 world, 2011 world. I am not intend to dimish her. Just I don't think she is considered as greater because her career. her career in terms of number of big titles is worse than some greaters.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  6. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    In fairness, butryskafanatic emphasized that it was this generation of skaters he/she was referring to. No one in those terms has had more success than she.
  7. torren

    torren New Member

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    of course I was saying without considering possibility of her winning second olympic gold medal. there are people who saying like already kim got second OGM, It is ridiculous.
    There have been unexpected gold medalist in ladies event at olympic. Anything can happen. well... exceptively at 2010 olympic, favorite won SP, and lp, go clean, just won. but It was just rare case
  8. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Mirai's best now is not the same as her best then, so no, she will not win a medal and I would be shocked if she even made the team.
  9. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I do agree with that. Oftentimes the best skater doesn't win OGM; it's usually the best skater of the night who wins. 2010 was the first time in a long time the best skater in the field was also the best skater of the night.

    Can lightning strike twice for Yu-Na? I don't think she needs to be 100% perfect to win gold this time but can she win again is the question. As of now it seems like it would be hard for her to lose but I won't say the OGM is hers...not yet. Even though most of us feel it's hers to lose, she still has to go get it.
  10. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, she was the bronze medallist in 2010.
  11. kosjenka

    kosjenka Well-Known Member

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    I am waiting for the thread and poll about the worst off season in FSU history :D
  12. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    :lol: with all of the tread drift, for a split second I thought you meant Yuna and I was like "gurrl, you cray!" Until I realized you meant mirai.
  13. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I meant Mirai, of course...
  14. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    In terms of the elements, Mirai's 2010 Olympic free skate and 2011 4CC free skate were pretty comparable, but the 4CC GOE are mostly slightly better. (Whether this reflects better jumps or are just the usual generous "thank you for coming to 4CC marks", I don't know.) Both programs had two 3Lz and two 3T and 1 each 3F and 3Lo. (No 3 Salchow, grumble, grumble.) Olympics had three 2As, 4CC only two.

    Differences (with Olympic program element listed first):
    3Lz-2T-2T became only 3Lx-2T
    3F with 0 GEO at Olympics got an edge call at 4CC for-0.4GOE
    Switched up the sequence so 3Lo+2A and solo 3T became 3T+2T+2L and solo 3Lo (was this to get down to two 2axels? When did that rule change?)
    Step seq improved from L2 to L3.
    Sit Spin improved from L3 to L4.

    I agree with you that Carmen was a better vehicle for her. I never liked the Geisha program much either.

    As a matter of strategy, I think it makes sense to put the sequence on the less difficult triple because of the 0.8 factoring for sequences.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  15. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Susan M, it would've been for the 10/11 year, so I'd say yes, the change was made to get down to two 2As
  16. HVS

    HVS Member

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    Again, please, butryskafanatic talk about THIS generation, not all time. It looks like you just wait for every chance to against Yuna's achieved, so ridiculous :rolleyes:
  17. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    Marai would need a Paul Wylie experience. Plus, under-rotation has been noted enough times, that I think judges concentrate on that with her.
  18. torren

    torren New Member

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    I agree that probably she will win. But I have a bit different opinion about she doesn't need to be perfect at all. There can be other possibilities. Even they are not so likely to happen.
    If she makes more visible errors than kostner, She cannot win. Even though Carolina doesn't have olympic gold and more success than her, Whatever kim fans say kim has the best career in this generation etc, I feel judges see them in same standard. Moreover 2014 olympic is held in Europe. European judges are known for so favorable to european skaters.
    Especially Reminds of ladies event at 2008 world where all judges were europeans and what Carolina's placement and score were.

    By the way I don't think kim can be 100% perfect at next olympic. About how she could deliver her best skates at last olympic, I undertand this way that just that days were her days. But once more? I think The possibility of it is so low.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  19. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    Mirai would have to earn a ticket to the Olympics first, at US Nationals. That is a long shot.
  20. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    Let's be honest, it is pretty ridiculous to be talking about the wonders and relative merits of Ando or Kim vs anybody else in what is titled a Nagasu thread.
  21. munow

    munow New Member

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    At the Olympics the tech callers tend be more lenient. I don't think she'll get called so many times unless it's painfully obvious--poor landings or obviously more than a quarter short.
  22. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Is it? She's been in a slump for a long time, so it will be an uphill battle for her. But I hedge at labeling Wagner and Gold the new Kwan and Cohen just because of one halfway decent worlds outing. US ladies have been one long trainwreck since Torino and I don't think this year is any different. Those 3 spots could go to anybody IMO.
  23. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    I second that.
  24. change of edge

    change of edge New Member

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    Mirai is skating at The Ice in Japan this weekend and if she debuts her programs, we should be able to get a better sense for her chances of making the team
  25. b-man

    b-man Active Member

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    She is also skating Glacier Falls next week, along with Zhang, Hicks, and Keiser.
  26. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't seem likely at this point that she'll even make the team, let alone medal/win, but I for one would LOVE to see her have a fantastic season, make the team, and make a splash (if not earn a medal) at the Olympics and/or worlds.
  27. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I do think this would be the best scenario for her. I honestly can't see her winning a medal in Sochi but I do think it's very possible for her to have a strong season, turn in great performances at nationals and earn that 3rd spot on the team. She'd be the only active lady to have earned a trip to the Olympics twice. Being a two-time Olympian is a great accomplishment in itself.
  28. wristflick

    wristflick New Member

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    Wagner and Gold are a lock for the team. It doesnt mean they are the next Cohen and Kwan, it just means they are the two best current Americans and by far have the most momentum and favor with the USFSA. Two skater likely to come mid top 10 have a huge edge over a bunch of women (Nagasu included) who could come 10th to 12th if they skate well, and can easily do alot worse than that if they dont.
  29. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I agree with everything you say BUT you have to remember we're going off of last season's results. The hope is that Ashley and Gracie maintain or improve their skating from last season...but there's no guarantee that that will happen. What if they have weak GP seasons and bomb at nationals? Then what happens? It's not likely to happen but it is not impossible.

    Those two have the best shot at those spots but no one's name is etched in stone right now. They'll have to earn that trip to Sochi. If they end up imploding and someone else steps up and steals the show, their reserved spot could go to someone else...
  30. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Well-Known Member

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    I think the best case scenario for Nagasu at this point is to have a strong season, maybe earn an Olympic berth, build up some hype and try to regain momentum for the next quad. She wouldn't be the first ladies skater to rebuild after some disastrous seasons. I highly doubt she can medal or win the Olympics but stranger things have happened. I mean who thought Paul Wylie or Liz Manley would win their OSMs?
  31. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Member

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    A skater who comes 5th or 6th is actually similar to Kwan or Cohen in one sense as that is probably all Kwan and Cohen would be able to manage vs the current field under COP. Kwan is not a COP skater and people like Kim, Asada, Ando, and Kostner would crush her under COP unless they bombed. Cohen was a COP skater but her weak and inconsistent competition jumping would bury her vs such girls. Lower base value of jumps + lower GOE even on her clean jumps + several missed jumps per competition would be too much to overcome vs the people I mentioned, even with all her other amazing qualities which could probably outscore all those others except Kim and Kostner in a few non jump places.
  32. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Wagner has been skating for year sand proven her inconsistency. Gold is new and unproven. Neither has anything close to the proven consistency that Kwan and Cohen displayed during their primes.
  33. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Member

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    Yeah Cohen was consistent all right. Consistent falling on her touche each and every competition and blowing chances for gold medals or sometimes any medal. Yeah I know she atleast had those chances which Wagner probably never will, and Gold wont for a few years, but that just shows she was a better skater in many ways, but for consistency she is the last one to model other than a consistent faller.
  34. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    True---but Gold is not in her prime yet, so it's not fair to compare her to skaters in their top years. Gracie does compare fairly well to Cohen in her earlier years, where Sasha's jump inconsistency kept her from achieving her goals. Sasha didn't medal at JW, didn't medal in her first GP season, and didn't medal at Worlds until her 3rd appearance there. Gracie's actually done a tad better: she won JW silver, and took silver at her 2nd GP event.
  35. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Sasha was one of the most consistent skaters of her era. Sure, she consistently fell once or twice per LP, but she was almost always on the podium. Who was more consistent? Shiz? Caro? Fumie?
  36. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Gold has a great shot to be a multi World Champion. She is already the best skater of her age group.
  37. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    Sasha was consistently a gold medal contender every time she skated and was pretty much a podium lock. She consistently skated well enough to land on the podium between 2004-2006. She also consistently had a fall in her program so idk why you are saying she was not consistent?
    marmalade and (deleted member) like this.
  38. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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    Best jumper. She's still got a hell of a long way to go on every other aspect of her skating.
  39. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Well, I would say it pales in comparison to the current World Medalists, but if you are going to compare her to her age group (Judgejudy's remark) then, she is competitive in other aspects of her skating with the likes of Sotnikova, Tuk, Li, Osmond, etc.
  40. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Say what you will about Gold's presentation but she is already consistently and pretty much always beating Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Osmond, Li, and all the top skaters around her age. This past season she was also inconsistent as heck, making tons of mistakes in most of her events, and STILL beat all those almost every time. I think her only loss to any of them was Osmond at Skate Canada. In years to come one can expect her to improve her presentation and consistency, and she will likely leave the rest of that group in their dust barring their doing something miracelous. The judges love her and give her very high scores, even for things she doesnt deserve them in, and extremely generous PCS for where her skating currently is at.

    I am not even a Gold fan but she alreadys looks like the one to beat the 2015-2018 quad. I am not saying she will win every event of course, but if she doesnt surpass Sasha's career it will be a major surprise.