Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by grassroots39, Apr 28, 2014.
Who do you consider the most undermarked or most wuzrobbed figure skater in history.
Drobiazko and Vanagas. When I saw just the title of the thread I immiedately thought about them. It's a pity there was no strong federation behind them.
Good lord Shishkova & Naumov. They got screwed out of a place or two way too many times, and 1996 worlds in the free skate just totally puts the icing on that cake. 4th was beyond crazy, what on earth....
Drobiazko and Vanagas, although I have to say the Duchesnays were right up there.
The Duchensays are one of the most OVERmarked teams of all time. Anytime I hear anyone say they were undermarked I feel like throwing something at the TV screen.
I'm totally with you !
I voted for Drobiazko & Vanagas. Kim would have been my 2nd choice though, and Eldredge my 3rd, just as the poll is so far. Lu Chen would have been my 4th, surprised she has no votes.
Klimova-Ponomarenko. IMHO, they were better then BB.
They might have been better, but there's no consensus about it. Still even when they were competing with BB, they achievied very good results. Already in 1984 they had bronze at the Olympics, so calling them most undermarked skaters, is a big exaggeration.
True, there are some incredibly stupid people who know nothing about ice dance who might think B&B were better. However amongst sane humans there is a consent.
You are right, maybe not most undermarked.
I am thinkin about Krylova-Ovsynnikok.
And about Bourne-Kraatz, because they lose FP-M and LA. And in 1998i think they deserv bronze
I would be careful about calling other people stupid. Anyway, it doesn't matter what we think, I will never agree that K&P were the most undermarked skaters in the history.
Moiseeva & Minenkov who first started doing what T&D later did. Linichuk & Karponosov made me want to slit my wrists and I think M&M weren't appreciated nearly enough.
I have to go with Shishkova-Naumov. They were undermarked almost throughout their career, and later as pros too.
You mean a consensus?
Link, please, to the poll where sane people (certified, I assume, by a panel of psychiatrists) who know ice dance (certified, I assume, by....well, someone) demonstrated this consensus?
The Duchensays were undermarked.
They can only blame themselves for staying with the Velikovs all those years. Look at who their major rivals were coached by:
Miskutnienok & Dmitriev, Bechke & Petrov, Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze- Tamara Moskvina
Eltsova & Bushkov- Tamara's husband (they left him at some point but still had connections with him I believe)
Gordeeva & Grinkov- Marina Zoueva
Kazhakova & Dmitriev- Tamara Moskinva
Then some of their non USSR rivals:
Kovarikova & Novotny- Irina Rodnina
Meno & Sand- John Nicks
Basically the only top team they competed against who had a coach with no real political clout as well was Woetzel & Steuer who were coached by the little known Monika Schieb. I have heard even Brasseur & Eisler's coach of the time- Josee Picard, was quite forceful behind the scenes and could sway a surprising number of people. They should have found a way to move to someone, anyone, with some kind of political pull.
One of the reasons Petrova & Sikharulidze split, leading to the Berezhnaya pairing, was Maria wanted to stay with the Velikovs and Anton didnt. He knew they werent going to win anything being coached by them. The only way a team being coached by them will win something is if they skate cleanly in a weak event/splatfest like how Shishkova & Naumov and Petrova & Tikhonov won the 94 and 2000 worlds, and even then no guarantees.
This is where the tragedy is. A skater can be over/undermarked depending on who the coach is, and not on how they skate. I thought that was the purpose of this thread.
Oh yes !
I was hoping to see Yukari Nakano- I feel like she just NEVER scored as high as she should have *cough2008coughcough*
Yukari Nakano definitely gets my vote. The girl should have been on the podium in 2008.
Second vote goes to Lulu (on the presentation mark).
Third to Akiko.
They weren't the most undermarked skaters EVER, but Mishkutenok & Dmitriev were always undermarked whenever Gordeeva & Grinkov were in the picture.
If you watched them both competed, you know why G&G were favored.
Nakano finished off the podium in 2008 mainly because she got several UR calls (IMO unnecessary), her PCS scores were appropriately high in the free. I do agree she tends to be undermarked though.
I picked D&V although I would also like to mention B&K in dance (although that might have been more of a case of FP/M being overmarked a lot) and Pang & Tong in pairs. Pang & Tong weren't always undermarked, but they should have won the silver in Torino.
Kostner at the 2014 Olympics
Even though they were coached by prominent coaches (Frank Carroll and Carlo Fassi), Fumio Igarashi and Emi Watanabe from Japan from the late 1970s didn't get the free skating scores and placements they probably deserved.