Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Jenna, Jan 7, 2012.
Something to be said for a "Telly Savalas"
Total Shock and Joy!
Several weeks ago I had the great privilege and joy of finally telling Paul face-to-face how much this particular performance meant to me. I told him that I wanted to thank him for his whole career, but especially what he did in 1992, and he replied, "That was a really special year." I told him, "Yes, but it was not just something good that happened to you, it was something good that happened to me." I explained that I had lost my job three weeks prior to those Olympics and Paul's SP was the first thing since that had made me cry from happiness, not sadness. It was a great release for me and a reminder that God would be bringing me good things in the future. I told him that I hoped that he'd never felt that he was not doing something important by skating, and that he'd touched people more than he could ever possibly know. Paul seemed very appreciative and pleased to hear this, and I'm so glad that I was able to share my experience with him.
That's so cool, snoopysnake.
How about the exact tie between Johnny and Evan at 2008 Nationals?
I totally agree & I still crack up everytime I see it!
For my sins I watch the DVD's of SLC a lot (I have way too much time on my hands !) & several things come to mind.
The silver medal of Lob/Ave. No way was their silver medal right. Yes their OD was great but their compulsory's were sloppy & their FD was just awful & bland.
Yes, Sarah Hughes was amazing in the free skate but I would have had the ranking in the short different
Kwan barely got round on her triple flip & Hughes changed edge on her lutz.
In the pairs the US couple were WAY BETTER in the free than Tot/Mar & She/Zha.
Also the two best programes (for me) was Lang/Tche & Nav/Kos yet were way down in marks.
I wonder how the judging system with have now would have changed the result?
I've always said change the judges not the judging system.
I think it sucks that they split it. They should have been joint champions.
when Yags had to retire because of a hip injury in 2003. His "Goodbye" at Skate America was a total heartbreak ...
when Plush fell in the SP at SLC 2002, of course I was rooting for Yags, but this was completely out of nowhere. I was looking forward to a close, "killing" competition, and then everything went on so smooth ...
Vancouver 2010 Men's Olympic results, with Klutz Lysacek being "Olympic Champion". A (skating) nightmare "finally" came true ...
Love your story and experience with Paul!
Are you guys forgetting that a judge admitted to fixing her vote? Let's not stir this up again but the Olympic committee had no choice in this. And if I were the Olympic skater I'd be demanding a gold medal as well.
Are you also forgetting that several years later said judge admitted that she didn't actually but was recieving threats from the North American press?
There were at least eight other judges on that panel. B&S won. The reaction of the press and S&P was the ultimate in sore losing.
There are so many shocking moments in skating.
I still remember being 12 years old, watching the 2002 Olympics and literally gasping when Michelle fell - just like everyone in the audience did. Such an intense night - I have a lot of Olympic memories, but that is probably towards the top.
And of course Sale and Pelletier winning silver - at the time I was a casual fan (I didn't watch pairs or dance until I was older) and didn't see how Bereznaya and Sikharulidze had any chance of winning. I think it was more shocking how blatantly biased that Hamilton, Bezic et al were towards the Canadians.
Fusar-Poli's death glare towards Margaglio in Turin was truly shocking. I don't think I've ever seen behavior like that towards a partner in dance or pairs. I still go on YT and watch it once or twice a year for laughs.
What, what, WHAT?! I've never heard this before - how have I never heard this before?! Clearly I need enlightening...
I don't think it ever happened, that's why you haven't heard about it
Oh, Marie-Reine Le Gougne has confessed to any number of things depending on who the audience is: she has alternately been pressured by Didier Gailhaguet, Russian officials and their cronies, Canadian officials and their backers, the media, Sally Stapleford and her pals, and possibly some other people I forgot. IIRC there was an IN story about her running into David Pelletier at TEB years later and tearfully apologizing to him. At this point, if she confessed to a much more complicated conspiracy involving others events and sports and possibly some politicians and space aliens, I wouldn't be surprised.
It also means we'll likely never know what exactly happened.
I thought Midori Ito and Laeticia Hubert crashing into one another during the SP warm-up was quite dramatic.
Call me crazy, but I would have had Suguri ahead of Hughes as well.
I've never, EVER, understood the silver/scores for L/A. Like, at all. Wasn't it a 5-4 split for 1st as well?!
Yeah, shocking to me ! I was like that : "Suddenly at the same level as Anissina&Peizerat ?"
Suguri yes, maybe even Jennifer Robinson. Malinina was undermarked also.
Wonderful story. I'm sure Paul was very pleased.
2002 ladies SP was one of the cleanest competitions i can recall in the ladies. I seem to remember taking issue with the "steps" preceding the jumps on most of the top 10 and remember thinking that Sarah Meier (coming in around 10 or 11) was the only one that had steps right into the solo triple flip (was it the flip she did). Everyone had more or less the same jump content, and everyone stood up.
Of course she did...why else even mention it? And why did no one else mention the crystals either?
Yes, and looking at the scores, you see it was a really close competition : almost every skaters in the top 11 after the SP (except the 3 first) have places from 4th to 12th !
I remember that Fontana skated well but the arena was half empty after the Kwan/Slutskaya/Butyrskaya group had skated.
Meier was lovely, Gusemeroli skated really well. Sebestyan also.
The free programes I enjoyed the most was Jennifer Robinson (a pity she fell on the lutz), Sarah Hughes & Fumie Suguri's.
Fumie was so unlucky at both Salt Lake City & Turin. In Turin I would have had her with the bronze above Slutskaya.
IKR. I did find their (apparent) rapid improvement in 02 very
Over both compulsory's, the original & free I would have had Navka/Kostamarov with the bronze & Drobiazko/Vanagas with the silver.
Get your facts straight.
Wikipedia page for Marie-Reine Le Gougne
She gave a number of contradictory statements very soon after the competition. Even if you choose to believe the story as she eventually told it in her memoirs, the fact remains that her first explanation was that she had been pressured to vote for the Russians.
There were a lot of ways the ISU and IOC could have gone, and they chose the easiest one, which was to nullify Le Gougne's marks for the Russians and Canadians and award gold medals to both.
Judges' Marks for the Long Program
As you can see, in the official scores (after Le Gougne's marks were removed), the vote was 4-4, but more judges placed the Russians higher than the Canadians on the second mark (the first tiebreaker).
Does that mean the Russians were better and should have won outright? Not necessarily. Since there was never a thorough investigation as to the integrity of the other judges, we'll never know.
I can handle that. 2002 is one of those odd years where I feel that too many people were robbed to really get angry about it, but I wasn't that excited by most of the "top" contenders anyway. Even A/P (I presume you agree with the gold medalists) had a FD I wasn't enamoured with (though that OD was obviously a masterpiece).
If you're going to talk about "facts" and then go on to cite wikiepdia as your source, then
I might be misremembering but I looked up all the rules at the time and if the strict rules of the ISU were followed then it should not have gone to a tie breaker. The French judges marks should have been removed, and replaced with those of the [i can't remember the official but i think it's the referree or the assistant someone or other], if that had been done in this case, the official whose marks should have counted would have gone with S&P and then the majority would have gone to S&P and they would have been the "winners" in that case.
The fact is, the ISU did not follow any of its actual rules in awarding the second gold medal, because there are no rules governing a situation of double gold medals. It was a fudge that had to be sorted in as quick a way as possible and seemed the most equitable at the time given the french judges admission of cheating.
IIRC, it was the substitute judge who would be used in case another judge fell ill or withdrew during a competition. However, that did not apply in this case. There was no rule nor any precedent under OBO that allowed for any judge's marks to be replaced with someone else's after the fact.
Using the substitute judge was proposed as a solution by some, but it actually completely ignored what the rules explicitly stated as well as precedent.
In previous events were judges were caught cheating, their marks weren't even thrown out.(98 dance, 99 pairs)
There was never any procedure or rule that was given under the ordinal system that was meant to deal with a situation involving a dishonest judge other than a 2 year suspension for that judge .
The only thing they really could do, based on the non-existant rules and non-investigation, was either let the result stand (as per precedent )or give a second gold .
Did the ISU make the choice or the Olympic committee? I get confused about it.
Since it was the Olympic Games, they're Olympic medals, not ISU medals. The IOC has the ultimate decision making power, but in this case it was probably a joint decision (if only because the ISU president is also on the IOC executive committee).
The facts really aren't in dispute. I could cite any number of sources -- including those used on Wikipedia. Le Gougne, after initally claiming that she had been pressured by her own federation to vote for the Russians, changed her story very shortly thereafter and eventually settled the version she used in her memoirs (which is to apparently what misskarne is thinking of).
Of course, if you can cite any sources that give another sequence of the events and explain how so many people's actual memories are incorrect, please do.
Right. And I don't think the IOC was ever going to acquiesce in letting the result stand or that the ISU was ever going to do a thorough investigation, so there was only likely outcome.
I'd recommend ones other than Wikipedia seeing as anyone can go on there and edit what the "facts" are.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/17/s...me.html?scp=3&sq=Marie-Reine Le Gougne&st=cse
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/24/s...da.html?scp=5&sq=Marie-Reine Le Gougne&st=nyt
So there you have it. She came up with two contradictory accounts within two weeks of the final.
Also, if a judge became ill or disqualified, the substitue judge should've been used. Jarmila Portova, the Czech judge, was the substitute judge, and she marked Sale/Pelletier first in the free skating.. So who knows how that would've been handled if the decision would've been made to use her marks once Le Gougne was deemed to be "disqualified".. A new medal ceremony with S/P first?? That would've been even worse than the dual gold medal probably..
That is the most shocking moment for me. I will never ever forget the scene.
Until then he almost had a history of never falling on jumps either in competitons or practices. He was dead consistent, even on 4-3-2. I think no one in the world had expected it was going to happen.
This is correct, based on what the rules were at that time. There was no rule in place for that particular (French judge) situation.
In th 1999 pairs the marks of the 'cheating' judge were not removed, but it would not have changed the final results because B&S had won 7-2. Even if two judges marks were removed, they would have still won 5-4.
The 2002 Olympic Ice Dance Competition sucked. It was the worst Olympic Ice Dance competition of all-time (at least the FD). That's why L/A won the silver, and their incredible OD didn't hurt them either. Places 3 and 4 had falls, 5th place had no political pull, and everyone below them had no chance.
I find that if you forget the FD happened and just go based on the OD, it was an amazing ice dance competition!
Separate names with a comma.