Most poorly judged competitions

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by shady82, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I never said anything about Evan Re: edge calls. I don't disagree with Takahashi's calls, but in fairness, Plushenko should have been subjected to the same scrutiny. His flip takes off from an obvious outside edge, and was not called as such until the japan open last year.
     
  2. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    You are right. It seems such a long time ago. Now I remember it was like Quickstep and Foxtrot. Because of Lobacheva's hair.

    But I also remember thinking that F-P&M were stronger that year than A&P. I really didn't think much of that Beethoven FD at all but it was the one time that I actually liked F-P&M's FD.
     
  3. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Ladies -

    1980 Olympics. Poetzsch [along with Baiul] are the most undeserving ladies OGMs in recent Olympic history. Poetzsch should've been buried further in the SP with a 2-2 and shaky jumps, plus Fratianne's marks should've been a little higher in the SP. Enough to give Fratianne the gold.

    1994 Olympics. I won't rehash but a 5 triple Kerrigan w/ a far superior constructed program should've stayed ahead of a 3 triple Baiul w/ a poorly constructed program.
     
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  4. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Oh I forgot the rules changes weren't implemented until after the Games. :duh:

    At that time the exact wording for a dowgrade was "more than 1/4 of a turn." In the FS clip, it's close, and it's really just a judgment call. It's not definite either way. And as people mentioned before, I think the technical panel was probably wary of making such a subjective judgment call for performances that would probably win medals.
     
  5. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    2008 WCh ladies.
     
  6. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

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    Word. Especially 2005 ladies EM, and not from a patriotic wiew. I am a Slute fan.
     
  7. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    2011 Men's US Nationals and Bradley's gold medal where BOTH of his quads were ratified. :confused::rolleyes::blah:

    2010 Ladies' Olympic SP results with Ando's UR 3flip being ratified along with Flatt's atrocious Lutz attempt. Nagasu, and even Kostner with fully rotated jumps, albeit a hand down on the Lutz, should have been ahead of both of them in the SP, IMO.

    2010 Men's Olympic SP results with Lysacek beating Takahashi when Dai I believe should have been ahead of him by a few points. I would have had Evan behind both Dai and Evgeny by a few points in the short. I also would have had Lysacek in 4th behind Oda as well. 86 points would have been a much more reasonable score for Evan instead of the 90 he received. Reputation judging rears its ugly head again. :scream:

    2010 Men's Skate Canada SP & LP: Don't even get me started! :EVILLE:

    There are many more cases, but these are more recent and I'm too lazy to think of more right now. :shuffle:
     
  8. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Didn't you post this already? :shuffle:
     
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  9. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    PML :rofl:
     
  10. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    And that's fair? This thread is about bad judging, and my entire point is that certain skaters got ">" marks and "e" marks when others got overlooked. Add this to the PCS scores and it was a poorly judged competition.
     
  11. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Were the equally UR'ed? Do you feel neither (or both) earned the benefit of the doubt in that circumstance?
     
  12. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    If you get into the PCS scores, then just about every competition is going to be considered a "poorly judged competition." Because people will always piss and moan if some skater they don't like got higher PCS scores than their favorites.
     
  13. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I'm more curious - would anyone argue that there is a well judged competition in which you disagreed with the major results?
     
  14. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Definitely 2008 Men's senior free skate, I thought Johnny skated cleaner than Evan who struggled on his landings.
     
  15. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that one was a head-scratcher.
     
  16. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's "fair" or "unfair." Like I said, the call could have gone either way, and this time it went in favor of E.L. That doesn't mean it's the "right" or "wrong" call, just the call that the technical panel thought was fair at the time..

    I'd be interested to know which competitions within the last 3-4 years were judged completely fairly.
     
  17. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Thats a generalization. PCS is actually not supposed to be as subjective is as people think...it's actually mapped out fairly clearly. Not everyone thinks their favorite should win all the time no matter what. In this instance, my favorites in the competition were Lambiel and Abbott, neither of whom deserved to be on the podium as I see it, and Abbott should not have been close. I base my opinions on the performances that were actually given and apply them to the competition rules and guidelines.
     
  18. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    "Completely fairly" is not possible in any judged event. I will say that most competitions are judged well. For example, this year's worlds. While there may have been a few things I disagreed with, the event as a whole was judged pretty well.
     
  19. falling_dance

    falling_dance D. Murakami's Newest Fan

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    As many have said before in other threads: the men's short program at 2005 US Nats. Matt Savoie's was the fourth-place program. Argh.
     
  20. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes. 1998 Olys Ladies, IMO. While I agree with the results of the '96 Worlds ladies, I think that it would also be equally well judged if Chen Lu had been declared the winner.
     
  21. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    ITA. I would add to that the 97 ladies worlds competition. While I may have personally judged certain aspects of the competition differently, think the outcome was fair and the judging was fair, with ordinals all over the place.
     
  22. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    That's not a good example. It didn't take a genius to figure out that Lambiel and Abbott didn't deserve to be on the podium, no matter how wonderful they are as skaters generally, their programs were tentative and riddled with errors. Plus my comment was about PCS, not overall placement.
     
  23. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    I completely disagree. IMO, this year's worlds was one of the most poorly judged event ever. Aside from pairs, which was well judged, rest of 3 disciplines were judged terribly.

    It all started with Chan getting astronomical scores in SP. Sure, he did well enough to be placed comfortably in 1st, but the margin should have been a lot less. My impression was that the ISU was trying to ensure that Chan gets a world title no matter what he did in the FS.

    Ladies result was a joke. Ando has to be the most over-marked skater in the history of figure skating and her marks were inflated unprecedentedly in Moscow. She and Kim both did 5 triples with 2 Lutzes but Kim did a triple-triple and performed better spins, spiral, and footwork. No way Ando's TES should be higher than that of Kim. I don't even want to bother with PCS when Ando's coach has openly admitted that Ando does nothing except jumps in her programs. This is so obvious to everyone except ISU judges. Go figure.

    Ice Dance was also poorly judged. V/M should have won the gold easily. D/W did tons of difficult stuff, but that was just about all they did. They were missing the basic point of ice dancing IMO, which is a man and a women dancing to music. I felt no chemistry between themselves, nor with the music, not to mention the audience. D/W were rewarded for quantity rather than quality, which is the exact thing that is killing ice dance.

    Lastly, Weaver and Poje should have won the bronze instead of Shibutanis. Although I liked Shibutanis' programs this year, their performances in Moscow were lack luster and they should have never been placed ahead of Weaver and Poje who skated an excellent SD and a decent FD.

    To summarize, I question the integrity of outcomes in ladies and ice dance results and wonder whether Chan's astronomical SP marks had anything to do with them. It is also interesting to note that had Chan been marked reasonably in the SP, Canada might have ended up winning 2 gold medals in Moscow.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
  24. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    1994 US Nationals, Pairs. This one seriously has to take the cake.
     
  25. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    You're missing the point entirely, which is that none of the medalists were my "favorites" so my criticisms in regards to the way the were judged in terms of PCS has nothing to do with favoritism towards them. It has to do with the performances they gave and the skills they displayed in relation to the PCS guidelines. I addressed this in the first part of my post, which you didn't quote. It's in fact an excellent example, because the skaters whose placements I questioned are not favorites of mine.
     
  26. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    How quickly you've forgotten Kim's jump error in the short program, while Ando was completely clean. How quickly you've forgotten about Kim's single flip in the free skate. Plus Kim did score higher on the PCS by two points. Seriously, with your history of posts on FSU, do you expect anyone to believe you're objective with Kim vs. Ando (or any Japanese skater, for that matter). :rolleyes:

    You say that the judges tried to ensure that Chan would win no matter what he did in the FS, but you fail to include that his FS was near perfect with two quads. Inflated scores isn't a good example of poor judging.
     
  27. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    Pleading to Nationalism does not make Ando a legitimate winner. There are plenty of novice skaters who perform better than her, and her PCS marks should be in high 40s or low 50s. Also, go and read the rule books again. IJS is designed to rewards skaters for what they do on the ice and not to deduct what they don't do.

    If you had any ability read other people's posts and engage in a debate, you should notice that I didn't question Chan's win but him being quaranteed of a win after SP.
     
  28. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    There's a difference between questioning the judging and questioning the judging system and the general direction of the sport. While I agree with many of your opinions, unfortunately, the judges did what they were supposed to do for the most part, according to the rules as they are now. I found both Yuna an Miki's skates seriously underwhelming, but I think they were more or less judged accurately for what they did. I personally would have had Yuna ahead, but on paper I can see how Miki edged her. Regarding D/W it was extremely close and it's simply a matter of opinion that you think they didn't have a connection. I normally prefer V/M but their FD simply was not as polished and seamless as D/W's which is reflected in the protocol. I can't stand Chan's skating or personality but he deserved every mark he got in that short program, it was one of the best I've ever seen and his scores are clearly justifiable if you watch the program and look at the score card.

    To summarize, I think Miki's win was lame and set back skating 15 years, but rules are rules. I sincerely hope for big changes that reward creativity and risk taking in the LP but as the rules are now, the judges pretty much did their jobs.
     
  29. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    If you had any ability to do any of the above things you mentioned, you wouldn't have written this idiotic statement.
     
  30. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    I agree with you that current judging system doesn't reward creativity and risk taking.

    But I beg to differ that even under the current IJS, judging in Moscow was plagued by misuses of GOE and PCS marks. Looking at judging sheets might mislead people to think that the judging was good, but if one tries to identify discrepancies between the sheet and actual performances, there will be plenty.