Most poorly judged competitions

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by shady82, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. kia_4EverOnIce

    kia_4EverOnIce New Member

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    And Denkova-Staviski should have won that IMO. I still believe that this competition opened the way to N-K gold in torino06: if D/S had won this, N/K would have gone far behind in the next two years... :blah:

    Fantastic, I saw it live and it was just amazing :)

    I agree on Yukari higher in 04, Slutskaya gold in 2002 Olympics, some of Drobiazko&Vanagas (higher, please!).

    For 2010 men, I've stopped thinking that Plushenko should have been OGM, and I'm trying to forget one of the most absurd competition of recent years :D (not only because of Evan-Evgeni, but also for Weir who should have been above Chan, and Daisuke and Steph, whom I loved and :( )
  2. Amy03

    Amy03 Member

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    for me the most absurd competition ever was 2011 worlds women!!!

    I will never forget how strange the judging was that day, there were several call that were questionable ad other skaters who received full credit for something that should have been downgraded.. and the PCS score for some skaters was simply ridiculous, I could continue with a lot off more things that just was outrageous including asada's downgrade o her 3A that diffidently didn't deserve that ad her low PCS and i know that her condition wasn't good and that she had focused on changing her technique this season but her performance was definitely better then what she got..
  3. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I have a bunch of issues with judging, but many of them have already been mentioned.

    1996: I think that Chen Lu should have won instead of Michelle Kwan. Although I think that Michelle delivered a great performance, Chen Lu's program was perfect. Although Michelle Kwan had an extra triple toe and Chen had an extra double axel, Chen also had a harder combination (Triple flip double toe in comparison to triple toe triple toe)
    But even if you give Kwan the technical edge, Chen Lu definitely deserved the artistic edge.
  4. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Even with Plushenko having "shaky landings" it's not like any real technical errors were involved. Certainly not too the point where judges would overlook the fact that in Vancouver he was the only one there he could do a 3A and a 4/3. He was the last skater. No one else came close to what he did on jumps there. Elvis Stojko said they killed figure skating but if they did anything was really kill any future of doing quads. Or if you don't think that is right they took away all motivation for learning them and then putting them in your programs. The worst thing was people saying Takahashi made a horrible terrible error in trying one. That was the worst. Not trying or doing a quad Olympics should be bad not doing one or attempting one. You can blame COP for this but the judges still have lots of power. There was no way the winner of 2010 should have been quadless.
  5. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Also, I just watched Yukari Nakano's 2008 FS, and she definitely should have gotten gold or silver. Kostner shouldn't have been near the podium with that shaky skate.
  6. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Well, Elvis Stojko was wrong. Ask Patrick Chan.
  7. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

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    Nevermind that the top three men at Worlds this past season all had quads in their programs.
  8. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    I'll give you the PCS, but both those 3A were rotated.
  9. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    They were real "technical errors" though, because they deserved and received -GOEs from the judges. By the way, he wasn't the only one that could do them, just the only one that chose to/was able to. Lysacek, Takahashi, and Lambiel had landed them in previous competitions.

    Your assertion that because the 2010 Olympic Champion didn't do a quad, no one else would be "motivated" to try one is ridiculous because this past world championships featured the most quad attempts that I can remember. In the short program, Chan landed one, Oda attemped one but stepped out, Gachinski landed one, Verner fell on an attempt, Joubert fell out of his attempt, Bradley landed his, VDP U/R + fell on his, Reynolds U/R + fell on his. In the FS, Chan landed TWO, Kozuka landed his, Gachinski landed his, Joubert landed his, Brezina landed TWO, Takahashi popped his, Fernandez landed TWO, Bradley landed one, his other one was U/R, Verner's was downgraded, VDP landed his, both of Reynolds' were U/R + fall. That's a whole lot of quads.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2011
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  10. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, that one too! (2004) D/S totally should have won, from what I remember (I can't remember the ODs all too well, if I even saw them but I know D/S's FD blew me away).
  11. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    No. They weren't. The closest was the one in the sp, but I would've downgraded that, too.
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    The callers seemed to be much more lenient at the Olympics than the rest of the season.
  13. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Not universally, though. Takahashi got downgraded and received 'e's. Plushenko's lip went unnoticed and so did Evan's downgrades.
  14. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Who thinks that if the rules weren't changed for the 2010-2011 season you would have had all the quads that were done? The judges so messed up the 2010 Olympics so bad the types of changes that were done had to be done. How much longer would quads been done if failure meant no points at all? Which is what happened to Takahashi. Or you could do two quad triples like Plushenko and just win silver. If there had been no changes what Stojko said may have been accurate.

    He did get some negative GOE but on the most flawed jump, the first 3A, there was actually positive GOE and I bet it was because it came after the only successfull 4/3 of the whole night.

    I don't think previous competitions are relevent. Plushenko was the only one who did those jumps at the Olympics in 2010 in the same programs. And those judges there said it was worth silver.
  15. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps the results of the Ladies LP at the 2002 Olympics came out ok, but if you look at the actual ordinals...they are very questionable....IMO Sarah should have gotten all first places and MK and Irina should have basically split second and third.
  16. snoopysnake

    snoopysnake Well-Known Member

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    I agree - I think all four disciplines' gold medals went to the wrong people. (Should've been Elvis, Nancy, M/D and T/D.)
  17. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Here is a clip of Evan's SP, albeit a poor quality one. How could you say it deserved a downgrade? Going by today's rules, the jump must be cheated by more than 1/2 of a turn to be downgraded. Under-rotated jumps (70% of BV) must be cheated between 1/4 and 1/2 of a rotation, and I don't see evidence for that here either. Can I get any third opinions?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXCn4FgGi5M

    Here is a clip of his second 3A from his 3A, the first one was much better.

    Now going by today's rules, could maybe see a case for an under-rotation call, between 1/4 and 1/2 under-rotated, but definitely not a downgrade, which requires more than 1/2 of a revolution. Again, the quality of this video is quite poor, and nothing can be said with certainty.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZxVFxSafuE&feature=related
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2011
  18. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Takahashi has a very noticeable flutz. Evan got ! for his triple flip. Not sure about Plush.

    I don't know whether Evan's triple axels were downgrade-worthy, but it seems like the Olympic callers mostly decided not to downgrade landed jumps (except in a few cases like Rachael's triple flips). I guess they didn't want OGMs being decided on those kinds of close calls, which can be controversial (see the uproar over Mirai at 2010 US Nationals). But if you fell (like Takahashi did on his 4T attempt) the odds of being downgraded went way up.

    Another example is Mao's triple axels. She got credit for all of them at the Olympics, but once she got to Worlds the callers got downgrade-happy again.
  19. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Me three! :D
  20. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    1) I cant believe you made me rewatch that dreadful program.

    2) This doesn't make any sense? I'm guessing you meant the previous rules before the 2010/2011 season changes in one of your descriptions?? In any case, I'm only going by the rules that were used to judge that competition, where a jump need only be cheated by a quarter turn or more to have a downgrade by obe rotation in base value, accompanied by negative GOE in most cases. Even if you ignore the fact that each "axel" takes off BACKWARDS, there is still a turn on the landing of at least 1/4, and IMO a little more. I would have either called them as salchows (a tad extreme) or 3axel> which, under those rules would mean a reduction to a poor 2a under that system.
  21. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I never said anything about Evan Re: edge calls. I don't disagree with Takahashi's calls, but in fairness, Plushenko should have been subjected to the same scrutiny. His flip takes off from an obvious outside edge, and was not called as such until the japan open last year.
  22. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    You are right. It seems such a long time ago. Now I remember it was like Quickstep and Foxtrot. Because of Lobacheva's hair.

    But I also remember thinking that F-P&M were stronger that year than A&P. I really didn't think much of that Beethoven FD at all but it was the one time that I actually liked F-P&M's FD.
  23. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Ladies -

    1980 Olympics. Poetzsch [along with Baiul] are the most undeserving ladies OGMs in recent Olympic history. Poetzsch should've been buried further in the SP with a 2-2 and shaky jumps, plus Fratianne's marks should've been a little higher in the SP. Enough to give Fratianne the gold.

    1994 Olympics. I won't rehash but a 5 triple Kerrigan w/ a far superior constructed program should've stayed ahead of a 3 triple Baiul w/ a poorly constructed program.
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  24. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Oh I forgot the rules changes weren't implemented until after the Games. :duh:

    At that time the exact wording for a dowgrade was "more than 1/4 of a turn." In the FS clip, it's close, and it's really just a judgment call. It's not definite either way. And as people mentioned before, I think the technical panel was probably wary of making such a subjective judgment call for performances that would probably win medals.
  25. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    2008 WCh ladies.
  26. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

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    Word. Especially 2005 ladies EM, and not from a patriotic wiew. I am a Slute fan.
  27. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    2011 Men's US Nationals and Bradley's gold medal where BOTH of his quads were ratified. :confused::rolleyes::blah:

    2010 Ladies' Olympic SP results with Ando's UR 3flip being ratified along with Flatt's atrocious Lutz attempt. Nagasu, and even Kostner with fully rotated jumps, albeit a hand down on the Lutz, should have been ahead of both of them in the SP, IMO.

    2010 Men's Olympic SP results with Lysacek beating Takahashi when Dai I believe should have been ahead of him by a few points. I would have had Evan behind both Dai and Evgeny by a few points in the short. I also would have had Lysacek in 4th behind Oda as well. 86 points would have been a much more reasonable score for Evan instead of the 90 he received. Reputation judging rears its ugly head again. :scream:

    2010 Men's Skate Canada SP & LP: Don't even get me started! :EVILLE:

    There are many more cases, but these are more recent and I'm too lazy to think of more right now. :shuffle:
  28. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Didn't you post this already? :shuffle:
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  29. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    PML :rofl:
  30. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    And that's fair? This thread is about bad judging, and my entire point is that certain skaters got ">" marks and "e" marks when others got overlooked. Add this to the PCS scores and it was a poorly judged competition.
  31. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Were the equally UR'ed? Do you feel neither (or both) earned the benefit of the doubt in that circumstance?
  32. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    If you get into the PCS scores, then just about every competition is going to be considered a "poorly judged competition." Because people will always piss and moan if some skater they don't like got higher PCS scores than their favorites.
  33. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I'm more curious - would anyone argue that there is a well judged competition in which you disagreed with the major results?
  34. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Definitely 2008 Men's senior free skate, I thought Johnny skated cleaner than Evan who struggled on his landings.
  35. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that one was a head-scratcher.
  36. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's "fair" or "unfair." Like I said, the call could have gone either way, and this time it went in favor of E.L. That doesn't mean it's the "right" or "wrong" call, just the call that the technical panel thought was fair at the time..

    I'd be interested to know which competitions within the last 3-4 years were judged completely fairly.
  37. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Thats a generalization. PCS is actually not supposed to be as subjective is as people think...it's actually mapped out fairly clearly. Not everyone thinks their favorite should win all the time no matter what. In this instance, my favorites in the competition were Lambiel and Abbott, neither of whom deserved to be on the podium as I see it, and Abbott should not have been close. I base my opinions on the performances that were actually given and apply them to the competition rules and guidelines.
  38. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    "Completely fairly" is not possible in any judged event. I will say that most competitions are judged well. For example, this year's worlds. While there may have been a few things I disagreed with, the event as a whole was judged pretty well.
  39. falling_dance

    falling_dance The Scarlet Unlettered

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    As many have said before in other threads: the men's short program at 2005 US Nats. Matt Savoie's was the fourth-place program. Argh.
  40. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes. 1998 Olys Ladies, IMO. While I agree with the results of the '96 Worlds ladies, I think that it would also be equally well judged if Chen Lu had been declared the winner.