Most overscored mens singles skater

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by ohashibiles, Jun 1, 2013.

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Most overscored ever in mens singles

  1. Elvis Stojko

    16.7%
  2. Patrick Chan

    37.6%
  3. Vladimir Kovalev

    0.5%
  4. Scott Hamilton

    5.9%
  5. Evgeny Plushenko

    14.0%
  6. Alexei Yagudin

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Kurt Browning

    2.3%
  8. Stephane Lambiel

    1.8%
  9. Wolfgang Schwarz

    0.9%
  10. Emmerich Danzer

    1.4%
  11. Evan Lysacek

    17.6%
  12. Viktor Petrenko

    1.4%
  1. ohashibiles

    ohashibiles Member

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    Who do you consider the most overscored mens singles skater ever. I know alot will say Chan but I dont agree and think people are too hard on him. Granted he is somewhat overscored and won many titles he didnt deserve like the last Wolrlds but still not the worst ever. I think the most overscored ever is Elvis Stojko. Who do you think is.
  2. Spazactaz

    Spazactaz New Member

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    Tomas Verner came to mind first.
  3. Zokko!

    Zokko! Comansnala?

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    Chan ...
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    Lysacek, Stojko, Plushenko
  4. karlon

    karlon New Member

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    I voted for one who robbed others' medals the most... It is the most important thing
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Could someone please change my vote. I meant to vote Chan but voted Stojko by accident. Stojko shouldnt even be on this poll.
  6. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    No need to change your vote, JJ. It's expected from you. :D

    The most important thing .....is what I like I can't get. I am being robbed.:mad:
  7. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Chan.. didn't even look at the other options! Petrenko was occasionally overscored though. I noticed that he often won when he wasn't even close to clean, like Chan. I don't think Stojko or Plushenko were overscored at all, it's not like they were splat-festing like Chan. Lysacek wasn't overscored either, he just knew how to maximize his points by using what he did well.
  8. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    I was gonna go with Patrick, but then I saw Evan and had to go with him. At least with Patrick, I do see the quality of his actual skating skills, his speed, his transitions, and the quads when he does them well that make him stand out. Chan's programs are packed with difficulty. Nothing really stood out to me about Evan's skating; he was rather bland and laboured and wasn't attempting the most difficult elements in his prime. :shuffle:
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  9. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    Just what we need - one more thread to confirm the venom towards Patrick. I know that is not how it was intended but...

    And before anyone jumps down my throat about being an "oversensitive uber" - just step back and take a moment to OBJECTIVELY look at the number of threads that have turned into anti-Chan threads.

    Yes there are those who objectively analyze him and find him "wanting". Yes there are those who keep it appropriate and specific about why they don't like him and/or his skating and or his results and/or the way he is judged and/or the IJS and its effects on the results in general - using him as the extreme example.

    But if you are one of those people - surely you must realize there are also people who bash him whenever possible and blame him for things beyond his control.

    Also - the one thing I have noticed about polls is that whoever is most in mind at the time gets the most votes. This goes for positive polls and negative polls. I know that is natural - but it makes the polls relatively useless because we know right away who is going to win/lose.

    On another note - these decisions are also limited / affected by the fact that skaters these days are much more accessible. I am a huge HUGE fan of Kurt Browning but when he was competing we didn't have nearly as much access to the competitions. However, my understanding is that there were people who attended the Grand Prix events (before they were actually part of a Grand Prix) who said he was terribly gifted based on his reputation. I know Torvill and Dean (whom I also adore) were often scored on reputation and even received a 6.0 for a program with a clear stumble in it. But the thing is - we didn't have and don't have YOUTUBE footage of these competitions to be able to assess skaters through history.

    And lastly - yeah I know this is the Trash Can and polls are meaningless. I am just getting a wee bit weary.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  10. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    The systematic overscoring of the clean or even messy all triple program with the 3/5 layout was absurd and was rightly altered.
  11. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Stojko and Plushenko, on both marks really. Their jumps were impressive but they had mediocre spins. Their second marks were a joke most of the time.
  12. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    :lol: What a Plushy hater you are...:rofl:
  13. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I guess the OP knew this thread would turn into another "Chan is overscored, Chan is a robber, ..."
  14. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Member

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    Basically as the poll shows so far:

    Chan on his own level as most overscored ever

    Lysacek and Stojko on the next level and far over all others in history

    Then Hamilton, Plushenko, and maybe Browning as the next level of most overscored


    There are many overscored skaters in history but those ones stand above the others in those particular levels. I feel most sorry for people like Takahashi who happened to peak during the days of Chan and Evan overscoring and should have 4 or 5 World and Olympic titles but only has 1.

    I wouldnt vote for him but Joubert should have definitely been on the poll too.
  15. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    Chan without a doubt. The only World title he deserved was in 2011.

    Lysacek got far higher PCS than he deserved. (Higher PCS than Takahashi in the Vancouver SP? Huh?) Stojko was a strong jumper, a pioneer in this field, so I thought he was undermarked occasionally but not too often.
  16. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Member

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    Stojko was never undermarked. He rode the wuzrobbed hype from the 1992 Olympics and milked it for all he was worth, including bullying judges to give him more scores by implying he was this big wuzrobbed skater in press conferences, when in fact he was overscored artistically and even more overscored technically most of the time. His attititude to the sport also sucks, always thrashing todays skaters. Even the ones who might deserve it like Chan, it is more taste for a former champion to do this publicly. If one could go back in time I bet the judges dont give him anywhere near the same medals and results again as they did then but oh well.

    It is funny how the most overscored skaters often seem to be Canadian- Chan, Stojko, Sale and Pelletier, even Virtue and Moir sometimes. Maybe the Canadian federation is the strongest in the World over the last 30 years and not the Russians like many think.
  17. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  18. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Oh please, must we go down this road? Yes, Canada has a strong federation and Chan has been hugely over-scored at many events due to the judges' love for his SS and the way he mastered quads (despite his not having as strong a 3-axel). Yes, the judges tended to over-reward Stojko post-1994 Olympics to make up for the Olympic slight. But Elvis was a great skater with the power of his desire and determination. He gave it everything he had and then some. The first quad-triple ever performed in competition, and high energy every time he set foot on the ice. So what he was not your conventional lyrical skater with aesthetically-pleasing lines.

    It seems that you are being intentionally provocative in trying to claim that "the most over-scored skaters often seem to be Canadian." What a completely irrational and feckless, not to mention reckless claim. :blah:
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  19. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I'm sure this will go well.

    No. There are more than enough worthy candidates that Joubert should be nowhere near this list.

    I think it's kind of a given that a thread like this would go in that direction, no? I don't even like Chan and I think he's often overscored, but I feel the need to pick someone else just to be rebellious. Surely an "other option" instead of Browning, Yagudin or Lambiel would be appropriate?

    If there were an "other" option, I would pick that as a vote for the opposite of purple.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Stojko should not even be on the poll. He was definitely overscored often from 1997-2000, but he was also underscored often from 1991-1994 so it basically evens out. Even if he is a somewhat overscored skater, there are so many in history, and he wouldnt crack the top 10 to be worthy of the poll, let alone to be top 3 in a poll like this.
  21. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    We SHOULD run a poll on ourselves - WHO IS THE MOST PURPLE POSTER! :cheer2:
    Winner's prize.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  22. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    Oh, I'm SURE it wasn't! Not with such valid options as Vladimir Kovalev, Wolfgang Schwarz and Emmerich Danzer for us to choose from.
  23. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

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    I have to disagree and agree on a few points here. I think it's great to include skaters like Kovalev, Schwarz and Danzer - if you don't get those skaters names out there, their stories won't be exposed to a new generation.

    I am far from an Elvis Stojko fan but I certainly appreciated his technical ability, determination and persistance (sometimes skating through some pretty ridiculously painful injuries). I agree that with the underscoring in the early 90's .vs. the overscoring in the latter half, it kind of balances out. I wouldn't have him on this list.

    I know I'm going to get jumped on, but do you know who I always thought was overscored? Young Irina Slutskaya. The hunched shoulders, the telegraphed lutz entry... she turned into a completely different skater around 2000, but her 1995-1998 results were a little much I think. That's just me. I feel like my friend Joe, who's a huge Irina Slutskaya fan is just around the corner waiting to yell at me for saying this... haha.
  24. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I would never in a million years have included Irina Slutskaya on the list of most overscored skaters in Men's Singles. :shuffle:
  25. falling_dance

    falling_dance Well-Known Member

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    Ulrich Salchow. He should've been a nine-time World Champion at the very most. :blah:
  26. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Why would these three be on the list? Were they uniquely overscored in their day?
  27. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    Apparently according to Wiki, Vladmimir Kovalev was seen as overscored.

  28. falling_dance

    falling_dance Well-Known Member

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    The judge from Czechoslovakia who placed Curry ahead of Kovalev overall at 1976 Euros is a minor hero of mine.
  29. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Kovalev was definitely overscored. IMO he didnt deserve either of his World titles (even considering figures), his Olympic silver in 1976, and many of the medals he won. He probably would have been my 2nd choice behind Chan.
  30. Li'Kitsu

    Li'Kitsu Member

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    First, I have to be honest and admit I can't really jugde how overscored/underscored some of these skaters are, since some of them were... well, before 'my time' as a skating fan. Of course I know these names, but I definitly don't know a lot about the older competitions, the scoring there, and so on.

    I just thought I'd jump in and state that while I was one to speak against some of Chans results and against him being dominant as a skater - I think he doesn't 'deserve to win' this poll. Let alone Lysacek was a lot more overscored to me than Chan could ever be. With Chan, at least there are his amazing SS, huge jumps, the quads... I don't agree with the scoring, but there are points speaking for Chan. With Lysacek, it still feels like someone wants to tell me 1 +1 = 5 or I just missed the magic trick that can make 'average' look like 'awesome'. Yes, Lysacek was often clean, but honestly... that's it.
  31. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    This is a gag thread. They are actually nuclear scientists. :lol:
  32. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Well, you have to admit, that's something. :D

    Notwithstanding the craziness of this thread and the wacky intent of the thread-starter (firestarter), it's probably not fair to pick on Evan Lysacek, just as Chan fans feel it's unfair to pick on Patrick.

    Evan is not the most interesting of skaters sure (except for those who love him), and he was favored at times in the scoring (some occasions over Johnny and a startling instance over Matt Savoie, looking back one year at U.S. Nats). However, most of the time, Evan was a never-say-die, fierce competitor with a great coach and full backing by his fed. I believe Evan has always been aware of his shortcomings against some of his peers, but he has never allowed that to stop him. He's been an overachiever through sheer hard work and determination. And unlike Chan, Evan majorly managed to stay on his feet.

    Strangely enough, Evan may be a more interesting dancer than a skater (perhaps because of having a partner to interact with). He might have been a very good pairs skater.

    Yep, Evan wins the PURPLE crown, and I suppose Patrick Chan will be out front in yet another worthless trumped-up poll. In any case, in view of how well Patrick is usually scored with multiple mistakes, if Patrick skated mostly clean in the way that Evan has, Patrick would be on another planet with no one ever having a bat's chance in hell of catching up to him.

    If nothing else, at least the thread-starter is having a blast. :2faced:
  33. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention, he was underscored near the end of his career (mostly in 2002), when you could sense that the judges just wanted him to retire. I think he deserved slightly higher scores than he got at the 2002 Olympics, for sure, although I'll admit he was a bit slow during his programs.
  34. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Evan is dull other than from an athletic perspective. I like Evan's body and power. His long body is interesting to watch lift and rotate. I would say his jumps are technically amazing given his height, and his spins are strong.
  35. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    Did you watch the competitions live?
    If Judgejudy is the JUDGE of figure skating, there will be no overscoring. :lynch: :EVILLE:ISU judges ..... Judgejudy to replace them all!:cheer:
  36. chanunderrated

    chanunderrated Member

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    I would have picked Evan except I think the judges werent even expecting to give him the World and Olympic title he won. They saved plenty of room for Chan and Joubert in 2009, and Takahashi and Plushenko (and maybe Lambiel, although he was 6 points back at that point) to all beat him, but none of those skaters followed through by skating well and almost unexpectedly they were seen giving Evan the gold. That isnt to say Evan isnt still one of the most overscored skaters though, probably top 3.
  37. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Agree. Maybe that's why he tried to promote an X-games approach to figure skating. ;)

    I think Evan showed very good talent as a dancer in his DWTS stint with Anna Trebunskaya:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bJEchVgqBo Argentine Tango

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CMate4X37c Paso Doble :eek:
  38. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Madge wuz so robbed! :wuzrobbed
  39. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Chan, but at least he's really good when he skates well.
    Plush...I always thought he was stiff and robotic and had no artistry, so while I get the TES, the PCS not so much.
    Lysacek was a work horse and he actually was very musical and had complex programs, and his consistency also helped his PCS rise, so that side of his marks I actually get, but I don't understand how he was able to beat out so many talented jumpers when he didn't have a consistent quad and his 3a looked like a weird, over-rotated 3 salchow...
  40. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    Sigh... How many Plushy's program have you seen? How many Plushy's protocoll have you seen? His PCS is also high. I'm a little bit tired of it, many members on FSU don't know the fact, don't want to watch his programs only repeat some false things like a parrot. Take the time to read ISU's data or Plushy's Wiki page. You will be surprised. For ex:

    "At the age of 16, Plushenko was the youngest male skater to ever receive a perfect score of 6.0. He received a total of seventy five 6.0s before the new Code of Points judging system was introduced."
    And he got many of them in international competition for his presentation, most of them presentation marks. He was perfect, so I don't understand, who should have won????


    Or this thread is about who is overrated? This is the FSU, so I'm not surprised, this is what I expected. Some vote for Plushy not too much, as opposed to thousands of fans who believe that he is the best skater ever.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013