Most overmarked or held up skater of all time

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by grassroots39, Apr 28, 2014.

?

Most overmarked or held up skater of all time

  1. Chan

    114 vote(s)
    24.6%
  2. Sotnikova

    115 vote(s)
    24.8%
  3. Kwan

    44 vote(s)
    9.5%
  4. Stojko

    9 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Lysacek

    23 vote(s)
    5.0%
  6. Bestiamanova & Bukin

    8 vote(s)
    1.7%
  7. Savchenko & Szolkowy

    2 vote(s)
    0.4%
  8. Navka & Kostomarov

    7 vote(s)
    1.5%
  9. Lobacheva & Averbuhk

    9 vote(s)
    1.9%
  10. Fusar Poli & Margalio

    38 vote(s)
    8.2%
  11. Sale & Pelletier

    50 vote(s)
    10.8%
  12. other (specify)

    45 vote(s)
    9.7%
  1. grassroots39

    grassroots39 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    97
    After the Sochi debacles added some new names to the fray who do you consider the most overscored or held up skater of all time. My vote went to Sotnikova, and not just for Sochi. I found her always overmarked, ever since she was a junior.
     
  2. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,656
    Davis -White :D
    Belbin-Agosto
    Lobacheva-Averbuch
    Lysaceck
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  3. grassroots39

    grassroots39 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    97
    I cant believe I forgot Davis & White. They definitely belong on this poll.
     
  4. coraczek

    coraczek Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    266
    Chan and Grishuk/Platov.
     
  5. grassroots39

    grassroots39 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    97
    Not a fan of G&P and I dont think they are the best dance team ever, but Grischuk & Platov never won a title they didnt deserve. They won programs they didnt deserve sometimes- golden waltz in nagano, free dance at 97 worlds, free dance at 97 trophee bompard, but never a competition. They even lost some competitions they probably should have won- 94 Europeans, 93 worlds, Ultimate Four one time to krylova & Ovsiannikov.
     
  6. nippy

    nippy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    33
    Davis -White
     
  7. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,656
    GP. In 1994 they coild lose to TD. In 1995 a lot off people thinking RK were better. And i like KO maybe better.
    The only FG i love -Feelings begin. It was amazing. They were good in rock-n-roll, but had so many falls.
     
  8. coraczek

    coraczek Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    266
    I have a different opinion. While I agree that they absolutely deserved their 1995-1996 titles, I have some doubts about other ones.
     
  9. coraczek

    coraczek Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    266
    I also liked this dance. Probably it's my favourite dance of this team. But as far as I remember, in the World Championship, the music finished and they still were dancing. It was strange.
     
  10. grassroots39

    grassroots39 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    97
    Nobody who was being remotedly objective or knows squat all about ice dance thinks R&K incredibly easy and safe FD deserved to beat G&P for the gold. People thinking with their hearts and not with their brains are the only ones.
     
  11. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,656
    We will know only if GP and DW will be in poll
     
  12. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    26,058
    The poll subject allows people to think with their hearts rather than their heads. It's just an opinion. :)
     
  13. Xela M

    Xela M New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    684
    G&P were practically unrivaled throughout their 4-year reign. I can't see which competition they could have possibly lost and to whom. K&O became good by 1997/98 but how could anyone compare G&P's Libertango and The Feeling Begins in 1997 and their Memorial in 1998 to anything K&O did. G&P could have skated in their sleep and still (deservedly) beaten every other team during that time.

    The Duchesnays were the ones who were ridiculously overmarked.
     
  14. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,463
    From this quad, definitely Davis&White. I've never understood their big marks. They are fast and impressive, yes, but they are not ice dancers. So, they don't deserve any ice dance title !
     
  15. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    719
    It was a hard choice for me between Kwan and Sotnikova but I went with Sotnikova in the end.
     
  16. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,843
    In her 14 year career I can think of like twice where Kwan maybe was held up but that is it. All of her US and World titles were won fairly.
     
  17. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,681
    Oh boy, there are skaters who don't even deserve to be on this poll. Or maybe the poll itself is in error for existing, even though I voted. ;) Any case, I bet we all are mostly voting with our emotions, likes, dislikes.
     
  18. taf2002

    taf2002 Texas slumlord

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    14,179
    I didn't do the poll because there were too many to choose. G/P for sure, they were overmarked a lot, esp in 1994 Olys. I couldn't stand her legs. She always looked (to me) that she was stomping around out there. And after they won the OGM in 94, it didn't matter what they did, even when they fell or finished after the music or whatever they got the same marks.

    B&B - couldn't stand them. F-P/M should have never seen the top step of any podiums except their nationals. He was one of the worse "elite" skaters I ever saw. Practically everyone on this list was gifted several times like L/A, S/P, & N/K but they probably don't belong on this list. A few iffy calls or a win when it could have gone either way isn't the same thing as being regularly overmarked. For that reason I don't think either D/W or V/M should be mentioned here. And FTR, I believe V/M has been gifted too. Although I'm not like some who think EVERY win was undeserved. coughpanicough
     
  19. Xela M

    Xela M New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    684
    It didn't really matter what mistakes G&P made because they were infinitely better than the second team throughout (post-Olys) 1994-1998. They could have skated on their heads and still be better. There was an Ocean-wide gap between G&P and all other teams. The gap closed somewhat by 1997-98, but G&P's programmes, technical difficulty and speed were still unmatched. That's why they had a few mistake cushion to the next team (similar to G&G in pairs although the gap wasn't as great there).

    I do agree about F-P/M though. They were an absolutely appalling top ice dance team.
     
  20. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,681
    ^ Well, at least the Fusar-Poli glare stare has become part of figure skating lore. Wasn't it that she was maybe more talented than he? Of course fs politics helped them in the scoring quite often. Re Patrick Chan, he was underscored at 2009 Worlds and often overscored in later years when he made mistakes, but his great talent and ability is not in question. It's the judges that should be ashamed of themselves, because they ultimately did not help either Patrick or the sport when they overscored his mistakes.
     
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  21. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,118
    I had to go with Chan due to the amount of times he's been overmarked, but gifting FP/M the bronze in SLC was probably one instance just as bad, if not worse, as all of his wins-with-falls.
     
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  22. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    998
    How were V/M gifted their scores? They earned them when they won in Vancouver they didn't have world record scores (or that is what I remember and that is understandble) Meanwhile D&W had performances with mistakes but still earned World Records *cough*teamevent*cough*. I would'nt say V/M or D/W were undermarked either (well perhaps V/M in the latter half of their career... but overall no.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  23. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    223
    ITA.
    I don't know any skater(s) who have been constantly/vastly overmarked.
     
  24. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,656
    When I am talking about DW I am talking about there World records and all 10.
    So even Chan and Costner with there amazing skating skills.never got all tens in component score.
     
  25. Laura4

    Laura4 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2003
    Messages:
    996
    I didn't vote because I believe the judges usually get it right, whether we, the fans, agree with them or not.
     
  26. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    810
    Valid point. One of the reasons Chan may have become cocky and inconsistent the past few seasons could be because he got used to the judges giving him wins even when he fell down several times. As a result, by the time he got to Sochi it had been a long time since he had skated a clean LP and on this occasion the mistakes he made finally caught up with him.

    Thinking that he could be coached by a dance coach instead of a jump expert may also have been another factor caused by the judges overscoring his mistakes.
     
  27. taf2002

    taf2002 Texas slumlord

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    14,179
    The only reason I put in that line about D/W & V/M is because pani will.not.give.it.a.rest. According to her D/W has never earned one win. It gets really old & childish after a while.

    The only time I thought it was a glaring unearned win (IMO) for V/M was in the OD in Vancouver. The Bollywood OD should have won the OD portion, as it had done all season.

    There is not one skater or pair/team who has not been overmarked at one time or another. Saying someone is so superior that they should have won no matter what they actually put out on the ice just makes the poster sound overly biased & ridiculous. (This isn't directed at you, paraplies.)
     
  28. Yunabot

    Yunabot New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    Ironically, it was only last year people (at least over at Goldenskate) were complaining about Yuna being over-marked at worlds. How times have changed :)
     
  29. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,045
    Yeah, I would classify the top 6 in every event at the 2014 Olympics the "Most overmarked or held up skater of all time" without being able to tell which one is more so than another.
     
  30. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    998
    Why? The score was very close but V/M performed their OD elements technically (step sequences specifically) better hence why they were ahead. Do you think D/W deserved to be ahead in the OD at Worlds 2010 even though V/M ahd their best and the better performance? Just because Farrucas is not your personal favorite does not mean their win was unearned. Just because Bollywood OD beat Flamenco once (only because V/M made mistake) does not mean it should've beaten it at the Olympics.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014