Most overhyped rivalries of all time

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    What do you believe were the most overhyped rivalries of all time. Here are some of mine:


    Kwan vs Cohen- not really that much of a rivalry. Cohen never won a major event over Kwan, though she did finish over Kwan at Worlds twice she still did not actually win the title. Cohen never beat Kwan at U.S Nationals.

    Stojko vs Eldredge- what rivalry? Eldredge only beat Stojko once from 1992-2000 and it was at the 96 Worlds where he fell in the short program and finished off the podium. Stojko didnt even need his quad to beat a clean Eldredge. Anyone who Stojko does not need his quad to beat even when they skate cleanly is not a rival to him.

    Kerrigan vs Harding- people talked about the rivalry even before the clubbing. There was a rivalry but it wasnt a great one. How it went was either: a)Harding and Kerrigan both turned in so so long programs with mistakes and Kerrigan usually wins on higher 2nd mark then. b)Harding skates great in which case she always won since Kerrigan never did a single great long program until her final season in 93-94 anyway.

    Sale & Pelletier vs Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze- a media invented rivalry as the vastly inferior skills of S&P were somehow built up through hype and politics to be regularly beat and even made to be out as clearly above a superior team like B&S.

    Totmianiana & Marinin vs Shen & Zhou- one team or the other was always out injured or coming back from injury in T&M's final two seasons.

    Lysacek vs Weir- Lysacek pretty much dominated Weir after the 2005 Worlds. Weir had the occasional win over Evan, but where the two men ranked among the elite and fared in major competitions was not really close the final 4-5 years.
  2. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I agree with almost all that you put.. I never really thought of Stojko vs. Eldredge as a rivalry, since Stojko was clearly the better skater to me. Re: T&M and S&Z, I think T&M were clearly the better in their years, and S&Z's peak time was more like the 2009-10 season. I know they won a world title before, but they definitely skate better now. Re: B&S vs. S&P, I think that this was a legitimate rivalry. Sure, B&S definitely had better artistry and choreography, that's not to be argued, but they could make technical mistakes more often than S&P (2001 GP Final, when Elena basically flopped out of a spin?). S&P were rightly considered the technically strong team (which, back then, was looked at as having cleaner routines and better jumps), as I saw it.

    I can't think of any others I saw as extremely overhyped.
  3. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    Lysacek vs Plushenko :encore: Nothing can match this one!
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  4. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Lol I don't think that even lasted long enough to be considered a rivalry, and Lysacek was clearly the (surprise) victor.
  5. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    It seems that some people took it seriously. Don´t you remember the "Greatest ever" contest?
  6. Artifice

    Artifice Guest

    B&S vs S&P was the most overhyped rivalry I can think of. Even not mistake free program was better than a clean S&P program.
    B&S are just in a different league, more like G&G, Rodnina and partners while S&P were a good and pleasant pair competitive at their time.
  7. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    How about Debi vs Katarina.
  8. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Mao vs Yu-Na gets quite a bit of media coverage.
  9. CaptCrunch

    CaptCrunch New Member

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    S/P vs B/S was no rivalry. S/P dominated them winning something like 6 -7 straight times in head to head meetings. B/S were far too sloppy with their elements to be able to take on S/P and hope to have success against them.


    Tonya/Nancy, now that was a rivalry. :D
  10. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

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  11. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    Overhyped? Why? That´s a legendary rivalry.
  12. pumba

    pumba New Member

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    Duchesnays vs Klimova/Ponomarenko and S/P vs B/S
    In both cases the superioroty of the latter was so evident.

    Goebel vs Pluschenko/Yagudin. This is simply ridiculous.
  13. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    Kwan/Cohen ... or Cohen/anyone, simply because she was so unbelievably over-
    hyped. Also, the fact that Cohen did do better than Kwan at Worlds twice showed that she could do so -- which creates a real rivalry.
  14. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Then, you have Rachael vs Alissa vs Mirai vs Caroline vs Ashley. :confused:
  15. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

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    Kimmie vs. Mao. The US Media spent most of 2007 hyping this up as the Great Rivalry of this quad and then poor Kimmie's jumps just went bye bye.
  16. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    I think the most interesting rivalries are between the skaters and themselves : skater vs their own "headcase issues". It's also interesting the way the various commentators "hype" this or avoid it all together.
  17. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Well it seems almost everyone is agreeing this was no rivalry, one way or the other. And while my view is the total opposite of yours the judges, NBC, and Debbie Wilkes obviously agreed with you I admit.
  18. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    This is just what I had in mind. What a "rivalry".
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  19. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    I was not around during this era, but how was the "hype" for Babilonia & Gardner vs. Rodnina & Zaitsev?

    Related to another thread: Rosalynn Sumners vs. Elaine Zayak
  20. Squibble

    Squibble New Member

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    There was a lot of hype, but it was really two years of anticipation after 1978 Worlds (where Babilonia & Gardner finished third), with no actual head-to-head competition. Rodnina had won everything in sight for years, first with Ulanov then with Zaitsev. Rodnina & Zaitsev missed 1979 Worlds because of Rodnina's pregnancy, and there was no Grand Prix back then.

    Babilonia & Gardner were much admired in 1978, but, at that time, Rodnina & Zaitsev were the undisputed leaders.
  21. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Well-Known Member

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    It's strange, at the time, I saw the two of them as being evenly matched, and found many of S&P's victories contingent upon them either having more complex programs, making fewer mistakes, or some combination of the two . In retrospect, (to me) it feels as though B&S were the stronger team in terms of their basic skating skills ,unison, and overall composition.

    It is probably a similar case for K&P versus the Duschenays. I remember (I was only a kid at the time) that their rivalry was very hyped by CBS and the Duschenays were considered the technically proficient ones, and K&P were the ones who had the legacy, and were more considered more artistic. When I was older , and saw their programs again circa 2003 or so , I had a total WTF! moment . K&P were really the class of the feild , and I have trouble understanding the rivalry.
  22. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    In Canada there was Stojko vs Browning (a pretty decent rivalry actually) and then the Buttle vs Sandhu rivalry that lasted a couple of years (where Buttle was mostly superior).
  23. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    How does one define a rivalry? Is it only a rivalry if both sides, at the end of the day, got a relatively even number of wins? I moreso think of a rivalry as one where the two competitors had relatively close skill sets and you thought, at the time, that either of them reasonably could prevail on a given day. For that reason I think Johnny and Evan did have a bona fide rivalry through the 2007 season or so. But of course in hindsight it doesn't seem like much of a rivalry because Evan wound up getting all the big hardware and Johnny not so much.

    I don't know enough about Stojko/Eldredge to say. I know Elvis almost always beat Todd, but how did they place when both skated clean in the same competition?
  24. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Off the top of my head instances where Todd skated atleast as cleanly and completed atleast as much content overall as Elvis:

    1995 Worlds- both had a fall, both threw in a jump late. Both had all the triples and 2 triple axels, but no quad. Elvis won.

    96-97 season Grand Prix final- Elvis landed a quad-triple but fell on his 2nd triple axel, stepped out of a triple loop and easily beat a squeeky clean Todd in the long program.

    97-98 season Grand Prix final- Elvis fell on his quad attempt. He still beat a clean Todd with both managing all the other triples. Elvis actually had alot of low and shaky landings too.

    98 Olympics short program- both were clean in the short. Elvis was hammered on the 2nd mark yet still beat Todd in the short based on much higher technical marks even with the same jumps.

    2000 Skate Canada- both made alot of mistakes. Both landed 4 triples. Elvis blew Todd away easily with scores in the 5.4 to 5.7 range vs 5.0 to 5.4 range for Todd.
  25. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Gotta agree about the Duschesnays vs. K&P. I was only like 6 when I watched them compete live, so I didn't really understand who was good and who was not that much, but watching their performances years later again on youtube I can definitely see K&P as the superior team. The Duschesnays had interesting programs, but are a little rougher around the edges. Goebel could be seen as a legitimate rival for Plushenko, since both were all jumps with not much else (USUALLY - I know there are exceptions for both). I wouldn't see him as a legitimate rival of Yagudin though since Yagudin had just as much technical skill as Tim and wayyy more artistic skill/complexity.
  26. leesaleesa

    leesaleesa New Member

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    Interesting. I would place a clean Todd over a clean Elvis even factoring in the quad, but Elvis beating Todd with the same content? Does not compute. Todd had better technique in every category, IMO.

    The biggest non rivalry has to be Baiul versus any one else on the senior level. How she was gifted with a world and olympic gold is one of those questions for the ages. I always thought it was because she played the orphan card, was poorly costumed (olympics, anyway), had bad hair even though it was a bad hair era, and was homely to boot.
  27. parasolka

    parasolka Member

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    Re: Plushenko -Goebel "legitimate rivalry"

    Since, as you put it they were both all jumps with not much else and it was rivalry, could you remind me a single competition Goebel took over Plushy because I can not remember any? Though I think a single winning start is not enough to call it "rivalry".
  28. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Mao vs. Yuna.

    Pre-2007 Mao was clearly better.
    2007-2008 Yuna was injured and Mao was inconsistent so they were more or less comparable.
    2009 onward Yuna was clearly better.

    They were only really neck in neck when Yuna was injured, all the other times, one girl has clearly been heavy edge to the other. Maybe now with the new 3a rules that will change, if Yuna chooses to compete again that is.
  29. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Prime Plushenko was overall a much stronger jumper than Goebel. The only jump Goebel had the edge on was the quad salchow by virtue of Plushenko not even doing that jump. Plushenko had the better quad toe, and by far was better at every triple jump. The triple axels of the two were not even on the same planet.

    Prime Plushenko was also a much stronger skater than Goebel. Even if you dont feel Plushenko had the artistry and even though Goebel improved his, Plushenko still has far better basic skating, speed, flow, command of the ice.

    And Plushenko's footwork in his prime even if not everyone loved it was actually quite intricate and fast. This certainly cant be said for Goebel.

    Overall you cant really compare the two as skaters. That is why they had no rivalry.
  30. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Goebel never beat Plushenko atleast not ever since the 96-97 Junior Worlds when Plushenko won and Goebel was 2nd. Tim didnt even come close to doing so at the 2002 Olympics when Tim had the competition of his life and Plushenko was injured and quite subpar. There were some who said they feel Goebel should have won the 2003 World title over Plushenko but watching the two performances again I am not sure what those people are smoking exactly.
  31. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    It's still a legitimate rivalry though because when they meet, they are always the top candidates for the title. Rochette, Ando, Kostner play as contenders at times but it's usually between the two Asian skaters.
  32. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: So this was a rivalry, but not one that was presented the way you wanted it? Does that mean it doesn't count?

    I'd love to have "vastly inferior skills" if that meant I could use them to win Worlds, an Olympic gold medal, and several GP medals. "Vastly inferior skills" my *ss.
  33. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, overedge, I loved your post!

    :respec:
  34. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I would place a clean Todd over a clean Elvis even factoring in the quad, but Elvis beating Todd with the same content? Does not compute. Todd had better technique in every category, IMO.

    Thank you, leesaleesa (and I respect both of them and do consider it a legitimate rivalry). Thank you, overedge for your latest comment. :)
  35. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Hardly an impossible occurence, even if you arent as insanely overrated and politically pushed upwards as Sale & Pelletier were. Remember Annett Poetzsch? Or Vladimir Kovalev. Or Lobacheva & Averbuhk. Timing is everything in Sport.
  36. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this summary. I guess it wasn't much of a rivalry. I liked Elvis well enough in his day, but aside from his quad I didn't think his skills were superior to Todd's. I never thought the judges particularly cared for Elvis but I guess they liked Todd even less. Of course they did compete during the quad-obsessed 90s. Perhaps the judges respected Elvis more because he had a quad in his arsenal, versus Todd who was basically quadless his entire career?
  37. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    True. Miki is asian too though ;).
  38. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I don't think ANYONE other than Scott Hamilton was dumb enough to consider this a rivalry.
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  39. pumba

    pumba New Member

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    Talking abot the Duchesnay vs Klimova/Ponomarenko rivalry - everytime when I rewatch the competitions I'm amazed how inferior in their skating skills D/D were in comparison with all 3 Russian couples. I would have placed them in the same league if not lower than the Italians, or team of Finland. Dean's choreo was the only remarkable thing about them. And it surprises me that by the Olys time they not only were considered the main rivals for K/P, but how easily they've passed Usova/Zhulin and Grischuk/Platov (not to mention the 3 strong European teams), though their sakting skills were at least not that great.
    The same happened with Sale/Pelletier by the time of the 2002 Games. Its amazing how easily they passed the teams like Petrova/Tikhonov, or Shen/Zhao to be considered the only and the ultimate rivals for the gold with Elena and Anton.
    So imho both D/D and S/P are the most overhyped couples in their respective disciplines, and their rivalry with K/P and B/S was nothing but an agitation of attention prior the Games.
  40. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do remember all of them, and my argument stands.
    You can be "insanely overrated" and "politically pushed" but you still have to have the skills to at least look like a legitimate contender at that level. And everyone you've named so far was more than qualified to compete internationally, even if you personally don't agree with where they were placed.