Moscow Men's event - Who will Man Up?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by skatingpj, Apr 24, 2011.

  1. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

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    I'm not convinced of that. There was a lot of heat over the fact that Chan was able to fall so much and still win events. Yes, I get how the numbers work, blah blah blah. But I'm not convinced TPTB would let that happen so readily again.
     
  2. Bailey_

    Bailey_ Guest

    Patrick Chan is definitely a skater's skater. The best male skater, probably in the history of the sport. His performance at nationals was nothing less than brilliant. If he is able to give a strong performance at the world championships, he will be on the top of the podium. No doubt. ok
     
  3. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    If Chan performs like he did at Canadians, he'll win. He is the front runner; I expect a showdown between him and Takahashi. However if Patrick is not clean, and especially if he has multiple mistakes, I hope the difference in PCS alone does not let him win over other skaters with excellent skating skills ( Takahashi, Kozuka, Verner...) if they go clean with a difficult jumping content. Short program will be crucial- anybody who wants a chance to beat Patrick has to go clean, or he'll run away with it. OK.
     
  4. Fliple Trip

    Fliple Trip New Member

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    While I'm willing to appreciate his skating skills, his performances, even at Canadian Nationals this year, did nothing for me. I didn't feel warm and fuzzy at all during his skates, he left me ice cold. He's boring and definitely lacks charisma, IMO.

    But yeah, looks like he's gonna be the next World Champion, but because of the reasons above I don't like the thought. :slinkaway
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2011
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  5. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    1. Chan-probably the one to beat. Excellent technician, but skates without heart, soul, or artistry. A product of the current scoring system. I admire his technique and results. He's one of those skaters I just don't enjoy watching. Too cold. Unlikable. (even though his current team manages his ego and mouth better-the distaste from his earlier statements is there.)

    2. Takahashi has it all-technique plus the heart and soul. Always worth watching.

    3. Verner or Kozuka. Both worthy skaters.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2011
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  6. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    I want to wish Joubert good luck. It would be nice for him just to be on the podium.
     
  7. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

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    ITA and I would also add Oda to this list. He and Kozuka have both beaten Daisuke twice this season. Even though they haven't had as much success in major international competitions as Daisuke, I wouldn't consider it a long shot for one of them to step up and take it.

    It seems likely that the podium will be a combination of Chan and the Japanese men, but I have a feeling we might be surprised. After all, who would have expected Alissa to win the GPF and US Nationals, the US men's world team to be Dornbush, Miner, and Bradley, and Daisuke to get third at Japanese Nationals.

    Whatever happens, it's certainly going to be an exciting competition. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2011
  8. Lis

    Lis Active Member

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    Wasn't Chan supposed to win Olympic gold 2010 and didn't?
    I see several that can win this comp and are at the level of Chan..All the Japanese men,Verner at his best + others.Besides I would love Plushenko to come back.Just saw him in a show and was very impressed and I am a Yagudin fan ...
     
  9. sliver98

    sliver98 Banned Member

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    No he wasn`t he was injured last year did not have the quad yet, as much as the chan haters refuse to admit this guy will take over men`s figure skating just like Yuna did for the woman all the way to sochi.
     
  10. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Chan not having a quad was not a factor in him not winning a medal in 2010 it was that he was just not at his best at all! Now he is very close to his best but now his best includes a quad. Obviously Chan at 2009 4CC or 2009 worlds would have been closer to winning a medal at the 2010 olympics than the recovering from injury CHan that did show up at the Olympics. But now Chan is fine physically and coach wise and has been more reliable on jumps than in the past and if in the past his falling on a 3a damaged him now he has a jump worth more and it turns out he can do a quad great.
     
  11. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Oh lol whoops
    Is Russian skating that bad that they only get one entry?
     
  12. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

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    I agree that it's Chan's to lose. I just happen to think he's going to lose. JMHO.
     
  13. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    No, it was just a fluke.

    Plushenko and Borodulin were the entries to Worlds 2010. Plushenko withdrew and Voronov was sent instead.

    But Borodulin's blade broke during the SP, and had to quit. That fluke left Voronov as the sole Russian skater. He only got 14th. If Borodulin competed and got the same as the Olympics (13th, 9th if we take away the Olympians that didn't compete, but either/or) Russia would have two spots.
     
  14. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Chan's performance at Canadians was once-in-a-lifetime perfection, but I don't see that as having any relation to how he will perform at worlds. He can certainly do well enough at Worlds to win, but expecting him, or anyone, to be able to achieve something as amazing as what he did at Canadians is just not realistic.
     
  15. Made4Dancin

    Made4Dancin New Member

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    I'm rooting for Brian Joubert and I think he seems more settled right now, which is important because his technique was never really the issue. He's shown a lot of perseverance this year so I hope it pays off for him. Having said that, I do think it's Chan's to lose, regardless of how well he skates. - OK
     
  16. JerseySlore

    JerseySlore Active Member

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    I second this although I remain slightly more optimistic.;)
     
  17. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I doubt Chan will skate as flawlessly as he did at Canadians. Oda, if he skates well, can match Patrick jump for jump. Tomas Verner could be a dark horse.

    OK
     
  18. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Quad or no quad, no one can afford to hold back if they expect to make the podium.

    It/s my mantra and I/m sticking to it. Last one standing wins!

    ok
     
  19. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    If every single skater were to skate cleanly, Patrick would win, far and above, because of his mastery of COP. There is not a single aspect of his skating in which he is lacking, and he is superior to almost every one in almost every aspect. Takahashi outperforms him on performance and execution, but in my opinion, that is the only area in which he is clearly ahead. If a Patrick with no quad the last couple of years won silver, a Patrick with three quads should be unbeatable.

    OK
     
  20. ChelleC

    ChelleC Well-Known Member

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    Chan's performance at Nationals was a once in a lifetime type of skate. That said, I feel he is the man to beat. The field is so deep, it's going to make for an exciting competition.

    Ok
     
  21. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I think Chan's main competition will be the reigning champ Takahashi and his countryman Kozuka. I don't believe Oda has the artistry in his skating to challenge Chan. I don't see any of the European or US men challenging him, quad or no quad.

    If the Grand Prix season was any indication, the judges are willing to give the win to Chan even with flawed performances. At the Canadian nationals he proved that he CAN skate two clean performances, which raises his stock even more. I think this is Chan's world title to lose. It will take two clean and high quality performances from Takahashi and/or Kozuka, combined with at least three falls on jumps by Chan (in the same program or in SP & LP combined).

    OK
     
  22. Mevrouw

    Mevrouw living every minute

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    Or possibly, Chan's nationals performances were the beginning of a long string of excellent performances.

    Interesting to see a skater "written off" as one-time-wonder when his difficulty and execution have been getting better and better. Kostner, Czisny, Oda, Kozuka.........
     
  23. heo-wikki

    heo-wikki New Member

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    In essence, it will be a competition for 2nd and 3rd. I really don't like that 1st is given. Nothing against Chan's skating, he is pretty darn good. But, as a relatively new in-depth follower of skating has there ever been a male skater given a 3+ fall leniency by the judges? I know COP has changed things, but still...
     
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  24. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ca...qM5ip70GTQNbBCAyCGrWqVegIAVFKxA?docId=6662964

    LOL re Chan's "meal" analogy. Japan Worlds was supposed to be his "meal" ticket to the top, I suppose, and it was "taken away right under his nose." :lol:, Chan might also have been favored for 2009 World Championship gold in LA, if not for his ill-advised smackdown with veteran Joubert, and missteps in his lp -- also Lysacek went clean with both programs on U.S. ice that year. Although, I thought Chan should have been first in the sp there, I think the judges were sending him a message -- don't pile on Joubert; too much pompous mouthing off does not win you fans or influence judges. (IMO, it was completely misguided of Chan to make gratuitous statements about Weir wearing a headdress of roses in the kiss n' cry at the 2010 Olympics.)

    As to who will "man up" in Moscow, as everyone says, the field is deep, and it remains to be seen who will be the man up on top of the podium. OK

    Certainly, Chan skated lights out at Canadian Nationals, and its pretty cool to see anyone effectively master quads -- not so cool to see a skater fall repeatedly in a comp, and for the most part, have that overlooked by the judges. Chan knew he had better deliver the goods after being gifted during the GP season. Still, he must feel pretty comfortable knowing that the judges will give him lots of leeway if/ when he makes mistakes, which they also did at the 2010 Olympics.

    No mystery that Chan is favored by the judges in any case, and that if he skates clean and lands quads, he's the odds-on favorite to win. But I prefer to see a battle, excitement, and scoring that does not make it a walk-in-the-park and a meal for the favored Canadian son, or should I say "tiger?" OK

    Personally, I favor Dai Takahashi (champion with heart, soul and a bit of magic when he's on) and I also enjoy watching Verner (love the way he moves; he's cheeky cool with charisma to burn) and Kosuka (interesting skater with all the goods). OK I'm in complete agreement with centerpt1's assessment:

    Must add that if Ryan Bradley does what he can do, his programs are show-stoppers. He's a good guy with heart, charisma, something to prove and the jumps are in his arsenal. He's so much fun to watch too. Hoping Ross Miner and Richard Dornbush soak up the experience, stay within themselves and perform the way they can, which would mean they will have a great showing. Will also be interesting to see how Kevin Reynolds performs in taking the place of Shawn Sawyer (who due to the Worlds delay, made the choice to go pro, since he had an offer from SOI).
     
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  25. Zokko!

    Zokko! Comansnala?

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    According to the judges and most people here it looks like they just have to fax Chan the World title ... He's so so "Mr. Perfect" :blah: ... but why can't he, "perfect" like he is, just make his programs look alive??? It has been mentioned before by other posters, his skating leaves me totally indifferent as well. He looks so cold, snobbish. No heart, no soul, not the slightest bit of charisma. Yes, he may win the World title this year, but I guess it will take a long time to conquer the hearts of international audiences, if at all. :cold:
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
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  26. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Well different strokes I guess. I, and many other FSUers I know are completely bowled over by Chan's performances. I've seen him skate clean live several times and been screaming my lungs out and on my feet every time. I was in the arena for his LP at Canadians this year and it was absolutely heart-stopping. His performances cold :confused: - I've never found them so.
     
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  27. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    Chan is becoming consistent with the 4T - without counting, I'd venture to guess that he has landed the most quads out of all the men this season. And, his consistency with the quad means it hurts less if he misses the 3A.

    I think this Worlds is Patrick's to lose but am a bit concerned that he peaked too soon, at Nationals. I think the SP will be the key. It is possible that he could miss both the quad and 3A, which would bury him down in the standings.

    I'm also concerned that he might be too focused on winning rather than on skating well.

    That said, Patrick appears to be developing extremely strong competitive nerves.
     
  28. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    As I recall, Jeffrey Buttle, at 2005 Worlds was given 2 fall leniency by judges in winning the silver medal.

    ITA! No charisma, and no innate musicality, but lots of bravado and hubris. I do give Chan props for developing quads and landing them so far fairly consistently, especially at his National Championships. I reviewed his lp performance there -- his blade work and ice coverage are superb, and his jumps were on. However, although I could admire his technical brilliance, I did not feel any emotion from Chan, except his determination to move purposefully from one element to the next.

    To each his own. Perhaps Chan's marvelous blade work, speed and ice coverage bowl you over so much, you are unable to discern his lack of a true connection with the music and his absence of an emotional connection with the audience. I suppose by simply closing his eyes and extending his arms in his opening move, and at a few other points in his program, he and his fans feel that makes him artistic. It doesn't! However, in the minds of the judges, perhaps true artistry does not trump technical brilliance, and apparently, technical brilliance can mask the lack of heart and soul.

    Excerpts from the article:
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ca...qM5ip70GTQNbBCAyCGrWqVegIAVFKxA?docId=6662964

    Say what??? :huh:
    Hopefully, the rest of the deep men’s field will step up and have something to say about Chan’s plan to “dominate Worlds for years to come.” There’s nothing wrong with believing in oneself, setting a goal, and being determined to be the best, but what’s up with that snotty, “club” attitude.

    Perhaps Chan gained this sense of confidence during the GP season, when the judges “backed him up.” If I were Chan, I’d be careful of channeling Tiger Woods, especially in matters of the heart. I’d try being more like Derek Jeter: a humble, consummate winner, and a sportsman who knows how to speak to the media, and how to perform on the field under pressure.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  29. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    No. A man should be able to do a 3A, especially nowadays. Hello, it's a required element in the SP. This is why I have little respect for Chan - the 3A is a jump that any self-respecting man at the international level should be able to do consistently.
     
  30. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    There have been a multitude of elite skaters who have had problems with the 3A, does that mean you have" little respect "..........for skaters such as Lambiel who also had problems with that particular jump, but managed to squeak out an illustrious amateur skating career? :rolleyes: