Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Maofan7, Jun 30, 2012.
New article by Monica Friedlander in The Examiner. Reads:-
Wow. This is really great.
I did? I wouldn't say everyone; I wish she explained to me why someone got a 5.7 vs. a 5.9 or a 6.0 for that matter. There were just as many people upset that skater A won over skater B. Talk about clear as mud.
This "article" is a joke.
wow. I'm no fan of Speedy, but this chick is a credulous hack.
MERLYN. Well, she does do magic out there. But uh. Do we really need another speeding pass down WUZROBBED highway?
Not an objective article. Blaming the IJS for the demise of shows is pretty simplistic when there are a number of other factors.
This "everyone understood 6.0" is just a crock.
There were scandals and I missed them? I feel deprived.
The rest of it wasn't any better, and at times it was downright offensive. Merlyn Davis, ha, and she got other things wrong, too.
Yes I thought that too. She is pretty dumb if she thinks that was the scandal ridden event of all time.
Hmmm... the article gave the impression:
1) She clearly HAATES Cinquanta.
2) The 6.0 system is better.
3) The judges are corrupt.
4) You can fall four times and win by 30 points.
5) Cinquanta killed figure skating.
IMO... shrugs.... I like figure skating and will continue watching.
ETA: Ah I see in the linked article she actually does have them. Does that mean I have to read it now?
Hm.... How do you think, if Chan will be out of the podium at next year WCh and D-W will win all competitions in next and Olympic season, will Monica Friedlander LOVE Speedy and new system?
Its look not like war against Speedy, but against Canadina skaters
Reading this is like reading
Yes, I was wondering too.
Scandal was what made figure skating so popular in the 90's (Tonya/Nancy). On the pro side there was Usova/Platov vs. Grischuk/Zhulin. I don't think the general public cared about the scoring system; the common perception was it was all done by bloc voting, I think that is still the perception.
Other than Morozov what is there to talk about nowadays? Coach firings and platinum medals? That can't compete with sex and naked ambition for the public's attention.
She is nuts; there was nothing scandalous about the wins by Chan and Virtue & Moir... While I do miss some things about 6.0, COP is a much better system to evaluate the skater's esp in terms of technical content, artistry will always be more subjective and thus prone to manipulation, as beauty is often in the eye and nationality of the beholder. There were blatant biases under 6.0, there are still some biases under cop, no system is perfect, but now at least skaters have a better idea of what they need to work on, and difficulty within a program now gets rewarded! I prefer COP, even if you see same elements over and over again, that is the choice of the skater's they can choose to train and skate for points to be competitive, or they can choose to simply entertain and be popular with fans, however the best skater's will manage to do both equally well, while being consistent during the entire competition, not just 1 part of it...
Now while I am not a fan of speedy, and his ole boys club remaining in control, it is up to the people in the sport to stand up against those who use corruption, bribery; to stop folks going along just to get along, and to opt for better training and accountability for officials, until that happens, it won't matter what scoring system is being used, and/or who is running the show, abuse of power sometimes runs both from the bottom and from the top, and can be found from the prenovice comp at the local rink, to senior international ranks, etc.. Humans are flawed and figure skating is not up to a clock, it is up to all those involved, both expert and casual observers and getting everyone, esp those invested in the outcome, to agree on what happened and why will never be easy...
Huh? One may not have fully agreed with some marks here and there, but I think this is the only person around who thought this worlds was in any way scandalous - and certainly not "one of the most scandal-ridden".
I mean, there wasn't a single tapping foot spotted anywhere, as far as I know.
I had to read the first line multiple times as I kept thinking I was misreading about 2012 Worlds being scandal ridden?? Not agreeing with the winner of an event is a given in this sport. It´s subjective.
I personally find IJS more helpful in seeing what the judges were thinking. 6.0 system gave us very little in way of understanding what they were thinking other then their overall placement and made it much easier for judges to ignore weaknesses in skaters. I find those that whine about the demise of that old system actually miss the fact that the skaters they prefer can no longer get away with showing up, they actually need to be a well balanced skater now.
I googled her name out and found she has a blog with the mission of saving skating. It's a joke. I glanced over her interview with Johnny Weir and at how she (and he, read his responses) think he´s the answer to restoring figure skating to its glory. It may have already been discussed elsewhere, I don't make a habit of entering Weir threads, so apologies if it's rehashing old news but it might give us a taste of what's to come (Lady Gaga version of Carmen )
I won´t give the link as I won't help this hack get hits. If anyone is interested there is enough info to google it.
Oh, please, give us the link. We are keen to find out how to save the skating!
Hughes got mostly 5.7s for presentation in sp at slc. Kwan got all 5.9. In Torino, Cohen got 31.4 for pcs, shiz got 30.09.
Now that cop has done us the tremendous favor of telling us at each comp that the judges are looking for exactly what we always knew they were looking for: skating skills, interpretation, choreo, transitions, You have no figgin clue in the world why Kwan got 5.9 to Hughes 5.7, but you understand perfectly exactly why cohen got 31.4 to shiz's 30.09. Ok,if you say so.
Yes,and the kookie author of this rant would agree with you... She did say that the cheating under 6.0, most notably the slc pairs event, caused an uproar forcing speedy to act. I missed the part where she said njs caused cheating, or that all judges cheated. She seemed to me to be saying, speedy and his little clique cheat, they cheated under 6.0 and they cheat under cop,but now they have the added benefit of additional cover. Don't agree with her that 12 worlds was the worst. I think the blatant cheating in slc is pretty hard to top. And let's be clear here, we know exactly who cheated in slc, and not only were they not punished, but one of them is actually the top pick for the next isu president, so.....
From the comments section underneath the article, posted by the father of a former U.S. National Team member:
To which Monica Friedlander replied:
The author may be nuts, but this has to be one of the most redundant statements I've seen you make yet.
I am fed up about arguing which judging system is better. I personally believe that IJS is better, but that's my opinion and if someone has different opinion, that's fine with me. After all, the judges has the chance to help someone up or kick someone down in both systems.
However, I do agree with the bits she wrote about Speedy staying in his chair longer. If there are some rules, why there should be suddenly exception for him?
He was probably advised by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. Three years ago Bloomberg arbitrarily overturned a term limits law in order to allow himself to run for (and buy) a third term. Bullies often get their way.
The term extension did not come from Mr. Chinquanta. The term extension also included many council members. Russia strongly recommended and lobbyed for the extension. They did not want to deal with a whole new cast of characters while orgainizing the Olympics.
The extension had a strong majority, but the term limit extension was only passed by one vote due to the ISU constitution requiring a 2/3 vote for constitutional matters. There was nothing arbitray. Each ISU member federation had votes of equal weight. It was debated by the Congress and each Federation in attendance voted.
Gailhaguet leading the ISU during the Sochi Olympics would have been rich.
Me too! I spent a good 5 minutes trying to remember the scandals of Worlds. Then I just felt like I must have missed something big.
Then I realized that the writer lives in another universe.
Depends if the fans count at all.
With fewer fans it is easier for speedy (and people like you) to ignore great artisitc skating and just reward Chan's robotic "skating by numbers" style.
Even at Skate Canada the extremely small arena was empty when the "chosen one" came out to show his bland CoP skating style.
In France, Chan was soundly booed by the fans and so were the judges.
If he really deserved to win then it is obvious skating is no longer a sport people will follow.
Not a sport at all but a convoluted pageant totally unaccountable with the cheating rampant.
Meryl *is* magical, though, don't you think?
PS: I thought the ISU had been a dictatorship for quite some time already?
??? Ciquanta was to finish his term in (presumably) mid-2014. . . AFTER the Sochi Olympics. Russia's recommendation therefore makes no sense. Unless I am missing something?
If Ms. Friedlander thinks the audience can't understand IJS, instead of bitching about it, as a journalist maybe she should explain it so that they can be enlightened. The comments posted by the skater's dad are right on.
I also was surprised to learn that the ISU is now a dictatorship. I thought that happened long ago.
FREE ISU from dictatorship!
Vote Friedlander for President and Weir for Vice-President.
Well I have responded to the article (yes made my feelings known to Ms Friedlander). Will wait a response.
Would this happen to be you?
Oh, never mind
Is this a threat?
Holy f*ck how did you manage to find that? It is not even my Youtube account. A friend had videoed it and uploaded it.
Separate names with a comma.