MK Professional, Wilson Coronation Ace ore Wilson Four Aces? HELP, please!

Discussion in 'Moves In The Field' started by HollyGlit, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. HollyGlit

    HollyGlit New Member

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    Dear all,
    I'm a new entry :)

    I'm dealing with an incredible challenge: I need a new pair of skates and... I can'd decide what it is better for me! :p

    I would define my skating level as "intermediate": I can jump single axel, clean doubles salchow, rit, toe-loop and not so clean double lutz and double flip.

    I would go in Risport RF2 standard (NOT Super, I'm thin and not so tall, so my teacher told me that RF2 Super could be really tough for me) but I can't decide for blades.

    The shop assistant suggested me these 3 options:

    1. MK Professional (220 euro)
    2. Wilson Coronation Ace (200 euro)
    3. Wilson Four Aces (240 euro)

    Through a basic comparison I've tryed to do in these hours, the only difference I see is that MK Pro and Wilson Cor. Ace have got the cross-cut pick, whereas Wilson Four Aces has got the straight-cut pick.

    Any other differences????

    In your opinion, what could be the right choice for me?
    Thank you in advance for helping me to decide!


    (My *very* old skates are Risport RF3 + MK Club 2000)
     
  2. Debbie S

    Debbie S Well-Known Member

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    MK Professional and Coronation Ace are pretty much the exact same blade. I don't know anything about the Four Aces.

    I'm in MK Pros and they've been fine, but I'm only doing single jumps (no axel). From what I've seen, most kids in my area move up to MK Vision when they start doing doubles. What does your coach think?
     
  3. C_T_T_

    C_T_T_ Well-Known Member

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    I've never heard of 4aces before but since they are dearer and don't have cross cut toe picks.But maybe your advisor knows something I don't.

    I don't think ther is much different between the other two.

    I would have been about your level when I stopped,maybe slightly lower, never had 2T. I'm only starting to land doubles aagin now. I'm in RF2 super and gold star but thats a huge jump from your old blades and more expensive.

    Any of those blades are going to be very different from your old ones so will take a while to get used to but long term you will see a big differnce. Good Luck!
     
  4. HollyGlit

    HollyGlit New Member

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    Hi! Thank you for your replies!!! :)

    I came back to the shop this afternoon to take (another) look to the blades.

    This is what I've seen and what I'd like to share with you.

    So, lets' start



    • TOE RAKE

    MK Professional blade has got the smaller Toe Rake dimension respect to other two blades. It is slightly shorter than the JW Coronation Ace one and shorter enough than the JW Four Aces one.
    Sincerely, I don't know the meaning of having a shorter or longer Toe Rake dimension :confused: ... are you more skilled than me?! :)



    • CUT PICK
    MK Professional and JW Coronation Ace have got a cross-cut pick. JW Four Aces has got a straight Pick.
    I suppose that a cross-cut pick should help you in the toe-jumps, even if the shop assistant told that, practically, there is no difference.
    mumble mumble...



    • FIRST UPPER TOOTH

    MK Professional has got the most prominent tooth and has got an evident curve profile (like a bump) between the first Tooth and the point of attack to the Toe Plate. On the contrary, both JW blades have got a smoother profile (it is almost linear, not so bumped) and a less prominent First Tooth.

    I think this is one of the main (and important?) feature/peculiarity of the blades but I don't know what it means. I suppose it is useful in the toe-jumps, but I'm not skilled enough to understand what is better or what is more useful for one person and for another one. Please, help me!



    • DRAG PICK (LAST LOWER TOOTH)

    What I've noted is that, generally, JW blades (both Coronation Ace and Four Aces) have got a Drag Pick more curved to the bottom. MK Professional, on the contrary, has got a Drag Pick more "plain".
    Obviously, :shuffle: I don't know anything about the usefulness of having a prominent drag pick or not... sorry


    • SPIN ROCKER
    This is a big grey cloud for me. MK Professional and JW Coronation Ace seem to have the same Spin Roker (7"), on the other hand, JW Four Aces seems to have a larger Spin Rocker (8") even if, on the official website, it is declared a Spin Rocker of 7.
    :confused:



    • NOSE and TAIL of the BLADE
    In general, I've noted that MK Professional has got the blade nose going to the top and a tail flatter (quite parallel to the ground).
    Both JW Coronation Ace ad Four Aces have got a flatter nose and a more curved tail that goes to the top.



    So far, these are just my considerations based on what I've seen. I've bought my boots but the blades... not yet.
    I'd like to have a more clear overview on the *usefulness* of these blade peculiarities...

    Could anyone help me, please?
    Thank you in advance :) :) :)
     
  5. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    It's really hard to make a recommendation even with all the information you've given, because so much of what makes a blade work or not work is up to the individual skater and how they feel with the blade.

    There are skaters at my club who can do everything up to and including triples in Coronation Aces, FWIW. I don't mean this to be nasty, but at the level you're working at, I'm not sure that the differences in the blades you're describing are going to make that much difference to your skating. I agree with the other posters that you will be making an adjustment changing from the blades you have, but the new blades you are considering are more similar than different to each other.
     
  6. C_T_T_

    C_T_T_ Well-Known Member

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    Generally speaking as blades get more advanced, the toe pick gets bigger but I don't know the specifics of these particualr blades to comment on wether that really is the case. Cross cut toe picks are supposed to give better grip when you pick for a jump. I think the top toe pick is useful to toe jumps wheras the bottom one will be what you jump of for your edge jumps. I don't know how much difference you will notice by having slightly larger/smaller picks.

    If the four aces are indeed an 8" rocker they will be flatter than the others. I believe your current blades are 7" rockers so you may want to avoid having to adjust to that since there aren't many other diffrences anyway.

    As overedge says, it really is down to personnal choice. New blades always take time to adjust to and quite often result in tripping face first over the toe pick!
     
  7. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I have skated in Coronation Ace for years and now use Coronation Dance. The blade has been perfectly suitable for my purposes.

    I know of people who buy the most expensive blade because they think it is the best. But that is not necessarily true for what they actually need.
     
  8. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

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    Both the Coronation Ace and MK Professional are highly recommended blades and they are pretty much the same (they are even made in the same factory). You can't go wrong with either one, so buy whichever one is cheaper or ships faster.
     
  9. HollyGlit

    HollyGlit New Member

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    Hi! Best Wishes!!!

    Underneath my Christmas three, yesterday night, I found... a new pair of skates from my boyfriend!
    A wonderful pair of Risport RF2 + JW Four Aces!

    But now, I have a question. I've just noted that the size of my boot is 245 and the size of my blade is 9 1/2.

    I've checked on this website

    http://www.skatetrix.ch/MK-Wilson-Blades/MK-Wilson-size-E_index.html

    and noted that, if my sole is 245, the correct size of blades should be 9.1/4. Surfing o other websites, they told that the correct size would be 9.1/4 or 9.1/3.

    9.1/2 would be for skate size 250.

    What do you think about it? Should a keep my boots+blades as they are or I have to ask for a smaller size?
    Thank you in advance and merry christmas again!!!!
    bye bye!!!!!!
     
  10. C_T_T_

    C_T_T_ Well-Known Member

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    Get a tape measure and measure from the very top to the bottom, that will tell you what size you need. Go for the biggest blade which won't over hang the edge. You can go up to a quater of an inch smaller but your blade can't be longer obviously.

    I just bought RF2 in 255, same as my old ones and bought 9.5" blades, same as my old ones. The new blades and boots don't fit because the shape of the sole has changed since my last ones so they had to go back. That size chart you gave would have been correct for my new skates but there are ones out there definatley out of date. There are slight differences in boots though as they are hand made.

    Enjoy!

    ETA: if in doubt ask your caoch.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2010
  11. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Just place the plate of the blade on the sole of the boot and see if it is too long or two short (as C_T_T has described).
     
  12. HollyGlit

    HollyGlit New Member

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    ok, I have measured my boots and my blades.

    Boots are exactly 245 mm
    Blades are exactly 243 mm (9.5)

    CASE 1: then, if i get these blades, the distance between the end of the blade and the heel is 2 mm
    CASE 2: otherwise, if I get the other blades (9.25), the distance becomes 8.5 mm

    according to the "ideal distance", the max distance should be 0.25 less, so, the ideal distance for my skates would be 238.5

    in CASE 1, the distance is 243
    IDEAL DISTANCE is 238.5
    in CASE 2, the distance would be 236.5

    so, I have to do, what??! I'd like to ask my couach, but she is away and it is very difficult to reach her via phone.

    Help please!
     
  13. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    You mentioned the shop assistant in your first post. Can you phone the shop and ask them?

    Personally, I would go for the blade that has less distance between the heel and the plate. Which if I understand correctly is the one you have.
     
  14. C_T_T_

    C_T_T_ Well-Known Member

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    I think the ideal distance is 0.25" or less so I would say the ones you have are the correct size. 2mm shorter than the boot is fine.
     
  15. HollyGlit

    HollyGlit New Member

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    Hi!
    here there are 2 pictures of my new skates!!!

    You can see the heel and the end of my blade. Just 2 mm from the end of the blade and the end of the heel.
    If you say that it could be ok, I will be more relaxed.

    In the end, on Risport website, I've found a Chart dedicated to Wilson Blades (Four Aces included) and Boots size.

    http://www.risport.it/?IDsezione=22193

    For boots 245, suggestions for blades are 9.1/4...

    I'm so confused, I'd like to skate with my new skates, sob!!!

    boot+blade=2mm

    overview boots+blade

    I hope these pictures help to help me! :)
     
  16. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what more help you need, because I think everyone here has expressed the opinion that a 2 mm distance is fine. Can you not take the boots and blades to the shop you spoke to already, or to the shop where your boyfriend bought them, and ask the shop assistant's opinion?
    Or...go out on the ice and try them and see how they feel?
     
  17. HollyGlit

    HollyGlit New Member

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    I went to the shop yesterday evening and the shop assistant told me that it is crazy to mount a shorter blade. The blade has to be as closest as possible to the end of the heel...
    :rolleyes:
    even if this idea goes against the "1/4 less: ideal distance" rule...

    this is why I am so confused...
     
  18. C_T_T_

    C_T_T_ Well-Known Member

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    The shop assisstant is correct. The ideal distance you keep talking about is 1/4" or lessfrom the heel. You have the correct blades.
     
  19. FigureSpins

    FigureSpins New Member

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    As I told you on the other board, not all fitters use the 1/4" gap measurement. Some like to have the blades fit end-to-end or somewhere in between.

    The 1/4" is the MAXIMUM gap that should be allowed; any more than that and the skate blade is too short.

    If it's hanging over the sole at either end, the blade is too long.

    Your blades sound like they're the right length.
     
  20. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Okay mine are like that. It will not be a problem. Stop overanalysing it. Just get those blades on those boots.
     
  21. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like your blades are exactly the right size for your boots.
    Each pair of skates is hand made individually, so you have to take the guidelines as just that--guidelines. Now go out and skate in them!
     
  22. HollyGlit

    HollyGlit New Member

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    Dear all,
    first, happy new year and then, thank you for your suggestions about my skates

    I've tried them and a new world is now open for me. Al my doubles have come correctly and closed and the rotation is perfect now. I wouldn't have thought a thing like this before.

    Actually, my first 15 minutes on ice have been a hell and I have thought I was wrong by choosing this kind of blades. But, after I took confidence with them, my spins started to come and I left away my fear of jumping with new blades.
    Now I'm satisfied because my rotation has become faster and, in my opinion, it depens on the way I pick the ice.
    Previoulsy, I used to pick the ice strongly and my leg was used to describe a big arc before picking the ice. Now, I need less power and less movement to pick the ice an jump and everything looks easier to me.

    I'm not so convinced just about the lenght of my blades because it seems to me that I am less smooth on the ice and it is more difficult to make my blades go where I want. Previously, that was one of my peculiarity...
     
  23. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations on the return of your jumps and spins! If you feel less smooth and like your blades aren't going where you want them to, it's possible that the mounting is a little off. Which edges feel difficult for you? Is it on both feet or only one foot? Depending on which edge feels difficult, you may have to move the blade slightly to the inside or outside.
     
  24. HollyGlit

    HollyGlit New Member

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    Thank you for your reply

    I have to say that, since the first second I have skated with my new blades, I felt that something was strange, crooked. I have 2 problems:

    1. (easier to solve, I suppose) when I try to go straight on my left leg, my skate goes left. This behavior doesn't happen on my right skate. I went back to the shop and asked to check the blad line. He told me he has slightly modified the position of my left blade and gave me back my skates. Now, I still have to try them in this new configuration.

    2. (very important) it is very very difficult to skate smoothly, it sounds like I have too much drag on my blades, in particular on the rear side, from the middle to the tail of the blade. I unused to think about where I put my skate and what my skate does, in order to avoid tugs or brake the ice strenght at the end of my blade, but now I feel that there is "something" pushing my skate out of the edge or the line I want the skate does. It is very difficult to manage my blades, in particular on the tail.
     
  25. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

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    It's possible that the Four Aces have a different rocker shape, so you need to adjust where your weight is on the blade when you skate. I recently switched from MK Gold Star (7' rocker) to Wilson Gold Seal (8' rocker) and the only thing that felt different was the back of the blade during regular stroking and crossovers. That's because the Gold Seal was flatter toward the back. Once I trained myself to put my weight farther back on the heel during back crossovers, everything started to feel normal and I had more glide than I'd ever had on my other blades.
     
  26. HollyGlit

    HollyGlit New Member

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    mumble mumble... I really don't know if Four Aces have a different rocker because if I read what it is written on the official website, these blades are very similar to Coronation Ace, but the straight cut, instead the cross-cut of Coronation Ace. If it is correct, the rocker should be 7, not 8.
    But, honestly, I don't know.

    :(

    Anyway, I've tried again my blades after the adjustment for the left boot, and I feel like nothing has changed. I feel my left foot goes on the external edge even if I want it to stay straight on. this is a problem that I feel when I wear my left boot on or off the ice.
    Do you know if there is a method to check blades alignement?
    Thank you :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  27. skatefan

    skatefan Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the edges are not even (inside edge slightly shorter than the outside edge)? To check whether the edges are level, turn the boot upside down and balance a coin on the blade, it should be horizontal if the blades edges are equally ground or slanting if they aren't.
     
  28. FigureSpins

    FigureSpins New Member

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    Have you had the blades sharpened? Factory sharpenings are a myth - I had a sharpener show me how a brand-new pair of Gold Seals had high and low spots plus uneven edges. Since then, I get all blades sharpened by a good sharpener once we're sure the boot fits correctly.
     
  29. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

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    If your left foot keeps going onto an outside edge, your blade might be mounted too far toward the inside, or mounted on a bit of a diagonal (i.e., a little outside at the toe, but in the center or inside at the heel). This is what was wrong with my old skates when I didn't feel secure on my axel takeoff because my LFO edge curved too much. I got the blade straightened out and then landed axel after axel the next time I skated.
    Another thing you might try is looking at your regular shoes and seeing if the sole of your left shoe is more worn out toward the outside of the foot. If so, you may have a natural tendency to supinate (lean to the outside) and might need an orthotic inside your boot to compensate.