Mishkutenok and Dmitriev?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SkateBlades17, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,572
    I don't claim to know anything, but I think they just wanted one more Olympics. Worlds were too soon after the Olympics and they had no interest in competing in worlds......this is purely a guess on my part. Many Olympic medal winners skip worlds, so I did not feel it was unusual, but it would have been nice to see them competing at worlds too.
     
  2. Belinda

    Belinda Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    66
    Does anyone know who choreographed M&D's programs? Is it Moskvina?
     
  3. lulu

    lulu New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,615
    I believe Tamara Moskvina and Alexandr Matveev (sp?) were M&D's primary choreographers. From what I've read, Artur also had a lot of influence on their choreography, particularly with creating their innovative lifts and other moves and with the Rachmaninoff program. It was his idea to skate to Rachmaninoff in 1994 as well. :) Moskvina wanted them to skate to "Swan Lake" but Dmitriev didn't feel that "Swan Lake" would suit their style, especially when going head-to-head against Gordeeva & Grinkov. He skated his version of Rachmaninoff's 2nd Piano Concerto, and convinced Moskvina that the program would work. Rachmaninoff was a great vehicle for showing off M&D's strengths, and of course in a few years, Moskvina would get another pair team, B&S, who would be tailor made to skate to "Swan Lake." :)
     
  4. lao1234

    lao1234 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    95
    I believe the Russian Fed indicated that only one reinstated team, the pair who had finished highest at the Olympics, would also compete at Worlds along with Shishkova & Naumov and Eltsove/Bushkov, who had been 4th at Nationals. G&G decided not to go to Worlds and the option wasn't available to M&D. Or at least that's my memory from 1994. Yikes - that's long time ago...
     
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  5. lulu

    lulu New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,615
    Thank you, that's very interesting. I'm surprised the option wasn't available to M&D, I'm wondering if they were injured and/or not interested in competing at Worlds? Because, if I'm the Russian Skating Federation (and who knows, maybe I am, :EVILLE:), if the Olympic Gold Medalists won't be skating at worlds, I'm going to want my Olympic Silver Medalists to be skate in their place. I can't imagine the RSF not offering M&D an opportunity to skate at Worlds after G&G declined, especially when, barring a major meltdown, they'd be heavily favored for the title. Of course, S&N would win the title, and E&B the brozne, so in the end, at least from the Federation's standpoint, everything turned out pretty good.
     
  6. lulu

    lulu New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,615
    Another question for the skating historians out there, does anyone know the music M&D skated to for their 1987-1988 LP? That was the year they placed 4th at Euros.
    I've seen their 1987-1988 SP, but I've never seen the LP for that season. :)
     
  7. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,873
    Actually you kind of do. Usually techno music. Unitard of some sort. Xovers, 2a, Xovers, 3t, Xovers, 3s, more Xovers. End program with Biellman spin then into headless scratch.

    When I watch her programs now, it seems like she spent 90% of the choreography doing back cw xovers
     
  8. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,572
    The first time I saw them was at 1988 SA, so I have never seen their SP & LP from the previous year. I hope to find those some day on YT. Their exhibitions at SA were really interesting- one was a techno music, the other was Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on the theme by Paganini. They were so creative and so different from any other pair I had seen that I fell in love with them immediately, and it grew from there.
     
  9. Minou

    Minou Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    61
    those early sps seem to be lost, sadly. The 1987 or 88 had a clown theme:

    Here are some cute, staged pics with Selezneyva and Makarov
    http://tinyurl.com/9fludna
    http://tinyurl.com/9blo969
    http://tinyurl.com/9ewwe8c.

    Also, I've heard references to a CanCan SP at the 1991 Euros that was scratched for a return to the dying Swan.
     
  10. Braulio

    Braulio Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    7,079
    Their 1994 Rachmaninoff LP is one if not my favourite pairs performance of all time
     
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  11. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,592
    A "what if" for you guys..

    If M/D won in Lillehammer, do you think he would've continued onto Nagano?
     
  12. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,873
    Yes. I don't think Artur competed at Nagano, because he was disappointed with the silver at Lilehammer. Artur just enjoyed competing during that part of his life. B&S were the IT pair heading into Nagano; It was a fluke that they faltered on their last lift and that enabled D&K to skate to the gold.
     
  13. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,649
    :lol::lol::lol:
     
  14. lulu

    lulu New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,615
    It's so fun to watch their earlier routines in particular, when their flexibility was completely new and such a contrast to the other pairs. As part of the 1992 Olympic exhibition, they do a variation on a headbanger, where she's doing a vertical split at the same time. :eek:
    Part of what made this team work, IMHO, was that their unique moves weren't just isolated tricks, but were well integrated into their choreography and programs. Not too mention, they had good skating skills to provide a solid support for their unique moves. I sometimes feel that as amazing as Natalia's flexibility was, when discussing M&D, it sometimes overshadows the fact that they were (IMO) also great pairs skaters as well.

    Another question :rolleyes: Does anyone know why they turned professional right after winning the OGM in 1992? Obviously it is not unprecedented, but the last OGM, G&G, stayed in eligible competition for 2 more seasons, and V&V for an entire Olympic cycle after winning in Sarajevo.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  15. lulu

    lulu New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,615
    According to a poster on youtube, their 2nd Piano Concerto program was developed by Moskvina & Dmitriev, with input by Mishkutenok, the lead choreographer from the Kirov ballet (I'm not sure if this is a reference to Matveev or someone else) and Dmitriev's then wife, Tatiana Druchinina.

    It would have been interesting to see what kind of programs M&D would have been able to come up for themselves in they stayed together after 1994. :)
     
  16. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,985
    I always figured it was because of the personal drama with him marrying Druchinina and having a child and her getting depressed.
     
  17. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,572
    From the tidbits I gathered from different interviews, Natalia had a mini-crisis after winning the OGM. In an interview Tamara said(paraphrasing)- she (Natalia) was sort of confused after all the success, about what to do next. I am guessing that competing in the Olympics again was far from her mind. She and Artur did not have great success as pros, and Natalia not feeling totally herself/competitive may have been part of the reason.

    It seems Artur realized quickly that he really loved to compete as an eligible, so he took advantage of the reinstatement opportunity. Natalia was not ready initially but she agreed and they gave us some fabulous performances.

    (responding to another poster)- I think Artur loved to compete at the eligible leve- those are the true competions, when compared with the pros, and he must have felt that there was enough left in him to compete again. Natalia was burned out and did not want to compete anymore.
     
  18. lulu

    lulu New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,615
    Thanks. :) I remember the UCAPs made reference to Natalia's depression, which according to the UCAPs was connected to Artur's marriage to Druchinina, but I wasn't sure if that had anything to do with them deciding to go professional, or not. I think B&P also went pro right after 1992, so perhaps it was also a career/$ choice as well. (?)

    At the time, M&D did seem to have one of the more "complex" relationships outside of ice dance, of course. :p I remember watching a clip of the introduction to the pairs long program, the announcer describes G&G as the "sweethearts" B&E were described as "the kids next door" and when they described M&D, it was "she's too big, he's too unruly" or some crap like that. Which, honestly, is probably one of the reasons I like them so much. They didn't fit in a cookie cutter mode of what a pairs couple "should" be like.

    What makes their 1994 Olympic performances even more amazing, is not only did they have a (by their standard) not great year as professionals, personal issues, Natalia's fall in the warm up, and I don't think many people were expecting much from them at the games. Yet, they delievered two :kickass: performances.

    @ Minou, I lurve the pics of M&D and S&M, two of my all time favorite pairs. :)
     
  19. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,572
    Bechke & Petrov did better than expected at the 92 Olympics. Elena overcame her nerves and delivered two solid performances. I particularly loved their Nutcracker LP (later they made it into a technical program for a pro competition). They were never gold medal favorites, so they seized the opportunity, turned pro, wowed the audiences with their creative moves and developed into a great pro pair. (I know I am digressing from the main thread here).

    Unfortunately for M&D, they were no longer the favorites to win the gold after G&G announced their intent to return in 1994. IMO they were both great pairs and it was the golden age of pairs skating.
     
  20. lulu

    lulu New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,615
    Well, Elena and Artur did try-out together before he paired with Natalia, so you're not digressing too much. ;)
    But yes, I loved B&P's programs that year, especially their Nutcracker LP. I just saw an excerpt of the LP from a different angle than the American broadcast (it was Russia broadcast), and Elena had the biggest smile on her face after she landed her throw. :) Talk about another skater who was able to, against all expectations, :kickass: when it really counted.

    Speaking of 1992, I always felt bad for the 1992 Olympic medalists from the F.S.U. when the Olympic flag & anthem was raised in their honor. I was watching the medal ceremonies, and I don't know, but they all just looked so dejected. I'm sure they knew that the IOC flag would be raised in their honor, but I'm sure it still felt like a slap in the face at the same time. One thing that did make me smile, though, was that in the Canadian broadcast of the medal ceremony, the announcers were talking about how, according to people in the know, Dmitriev had the potential to be one of the best of all times. :) Of course, I would just modify that slightly, and also include Natalia as one of the best of all time as well.
     
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  21. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,985
    Oh wow, I never knew that. I'm glad he ended up with Natalia and Oksana though. :)
     
  22. lulu

    lulu New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,615
    I've seen a clip of the 1991 Euros SP, the music isn't the "CanCan" but it's along the same vein. The program isn't in the same league as "The Swan" or "Don Quixote", but one thing about the program is that Natalia's much more extroverted in the routine than she normally is. She did a great job of selling the program. :)
    After the judges told them to nix the routine, they probably could have made some modifications and turned it into a fairly decent exhibition.
     
  23. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,572
    Somehow I thought that M&D skated their SP to CanCan in 1989......? Their SP was not shown on our TV, so I don't know what music they skated to.
     
  24. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Gettin' my sass out

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    12,295
    :cheer2: :rofl:

    Amazing.
     
  25. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Gettin' my sass out

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    12,295
    I can safely say that M/D are one of my all-time favourites. There's been no-one like them before or since IMO. Funnily enough, my mother is also a big M/D fan - twenty years later and with basically no skating knowledge :lol: She only watches when I force her to, but she often says to me, "what are that pair up to, the Russian one with short hair who was really flexible?" :lol: All this after only seeing their 94 LP. Pretty impressive to convert someone into an uber just like that ;)

    (For the record, Rahkamo/Kokko had the same effect on her!)
     
  26. lulu

    lulu New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,615
    Awww, I love your mom. :lol: :cheer2:

    I seriously think Natalia M. is one of the most underrated pairs skaters. Her spirals were simply:swoon:
     
  27. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Messages:
    5,012
    Say hello to you mom!
    I really fell in love again with pairs skating watching M/D.
    Mr. Finnice called him "The Thigh Man":eek:.
     
  28. lulu

    lulu New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,615
  29. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,510
  30. lulu

    lulu New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    5,615