Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SkateBlades17, Jul 31, 2012.
Oh wow, I never knew that. I'm glad he ended up with Natalia and Oksana though.
I've seen a clip of the 1991 Euros SP, the music isn't the "CanCan" but it's along the same vein. The program isn't in the same league as "The Swan" or "Don Quixote", but one thing about the program is that Natalia's much more extroverted in the routine than she normally is. She did a great job of selling the program.
After the judges told them to nix the routine, they probably could have made some modifications and turned it into a fairly decent exhibition.
Somehow I thought that M&D skated their SP to CanCan in 1989......? Their SP was not shown on our TV, so I don't know what music they skated to.
I can safely say that M/D are one of my all-time favourites. There's been no-one like them before or since IMO. Funnily enough, my mother is also a big M/D fan - twenty years later and with basically no skating knowledge She only watches when I force her to, but she often says to me, "what are that pair up to, the Russian one with short hair who was really flexible?" All this after only seeing their 94 LP. Pretty impressive to convert someone into an uber just like that
(For the record, Rahkamo/Kokko had the same effect on her!)
Awww, I love your mom.
I seriously think Natalia M. is one of the most underrated pairs skaters. Her spirals were simply
Say hello to you mom!
I really fell in love again with pairs skating watching M/D.
Mr. Finnice called him "The Thigh Man".
Some M&D videos:
1989 European Championships-Short Program
1990 Tour of Champions Ex
1995 St. Petersburg Exhibition, skating to Prelude.
They performed the same short program for the 1987-1988 season as well, but I've never seen the 1987-1988 LP. Does anyone know what music they skated to that season?
speaking of Dmitriev, I can't even recognize how he looks like now
Added two more videos. The 1988 European Championship SP and the 1992 Olympic Exhibition to Don Quixote-featuring an impressive/dangerous looking spin around the 1:55 mark.
The quality of the videos are not ideal, but I don't believe either of those performances have been uploaded to youtube before.
I love that SP (1988 Euros)! I had never seen it before. They look so young, and Artur looks a bit shorter than what I am used to seeing.
didnt he win the nagano gold with kazakova?
Yes he was definitely there and they have the souvenir to prove it.
i sure don't know where you get your info but get your facts straight first please before posting something like this.
Just so we're clear, orbitz was responding to my question about whether or not we think Dmitriev would compete in Nagano were he a two time OGM. He (she?) responded yes, based on the perception that Dmitriev loved to compete.
I wish their LP from that year was online. Their 1986-1987 programs as well. In 1988 they aren't quite "there" yet, but you can already see some of the qualities in their skating-the speed, twist lift, side by side spins that would make them a great pair team.
The late 1980s was such an exciting time for Soviet pair skating, when you had G&G, V&V and S&M in the top three spots, with M&D, S&N,B&P and other pairs coming up the ranks. It's pretty amazing to think of how deep the pairs field was at the time-despite being 2 time European bronze medalists, and repeat champions at Skate America, M&D didn't get a chance to compete at Worlds until 1990.
i reread that, and oh well, a matter of punctuation that skewed my perception of that reply i guess
I miss those days. In this SP video from the 1988 Euro SP, they already had excellent unison, extensions, and creativity. They really had it all, and if not for the tough competition in the USSR pairs field, we might have seen them compete at the 1988 worlds and/or Olympics. However, there was no way the USSR would have selected them over reigning Olympic champions V&V and 1984 Olympic bronze medallists Selezneva-Makarov (G&G were a lock, being reigning two time world champions and almost a lock for the OGM). I have always lamented not being able to see M&D skate much longer. The first time I ever saw them was at the 1988 Skate America, which they won. They were so unique, although not as polished as they became in 1991, that they were very interesting to watch, regardless of where they placed.
For M&D fans, this article is 2-years old, but I haven't seen it posted.
(I hope the link works. I tried to make a "tinyurl," but it didn't work. It's Skating Magazine April 2011. Author article is Lois ELFMAN.)
The link did not work for me, but thanks for posting.
Article link works now: http://digital.publicationprinters.com/publication/repo25/12097/69151/69151-10.pdf
(Natalia M's long-time student, Steven Evans, did not compete in Senior Men this season, and I assume he is now focusing on college full-time.)
Something in my foggy memory is telling me that after Natalia and Artur split that she moved to the US and briefly tried to skate pairs with a hockey player (boyfriend?).... Was that Natalia, or am I thinking of someone else? No, not "Cutting Edge", I mean in real life....
That hockey player was her first husband. They competed in a pro competition. They could do lifts but not spins.
They divorced and she remarried.
Thank you, Vash01! Looks like I remembered the gist of it.
For the 1994 LP, I heard that their coaches had initially chosen Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake music, but M&D said they wanted to skate to Rach2, and they did great. I have wondered at times how the Swan Lake program might have looked like. I don't know what part of Swan Lake they would have skated, but Rach2 seemed so perfect for them!
I hadn't seen this before on youtube, this is the medal ceremony from Lillehammer.
Still IMO the greatest Olympic pair competition of all time. But ... now that it's been almost 20 years (wow!) I'm irritated at all the media fawning back then of G&G. Yes they were the storybook couple while M&D had problems on and off the ice, but Lillehammer had unusually tired and sloppy performances from G&G in both the SP and LP. But people got so caught up in the storybook romance stuff back then.
Have you have seen this video called "Mishkutenok & Dmitriev versus Gordeeva & Grinkov" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZFLYV6CTlM
also here is the link to the technical analysis of both programs http://www.gg-corner.de/?p=608
Once you read this, you can see why G&G had the most difficult program.
I enjoy both programs and I think it's true that M&D's LP ending is probably one ot the best ending of all times.
Thanks for posting that analysis Trouble77. Very interesting and insightful.
I only read the first and last parts of that but I found it a bit unfair to M&D. G&G's unison on their 2axel over M&D's 3toe doesn't override the difference in difficulty, especially since Sergei broke unison by making mistakes on much easier jumps elsewhere. And I disagree that Natalia's 2axel doesn't count at all because of a slight two foot - if that were the case, Baiul would barely have been credited any triples in the free. (Even if that's what it said in the rulebook, it clearly wasn't followed in practice). I think you kinda have to give it to M&D on jumps. You can give G&G other categories and the overall win, but saying the base mark on jumps was lower for M&D just makes that blogger look overly biased.
I think Gordeeva/Grinkov were lucky that there weren't internet message boards during their heyday in the late 1980s and early to mid 1990s. I think some of their winning performances would've been skewered like Patrick Chan.
Not quite that much. Their only real 'gift' was the 1990 worlds championship, where they (Katia) made two mistakes on jumps (but not a fall), and skated rest of the program clean but with less intensity than usual. The 1994 OGM was really a toss up. Two great pairs skated two great programs. I have gone back and forth on this result many times, although in the end I had a slight lean toward M&D. My only problem was that M&D's marks were much lower than they deserved, and it should have been much closer - a 4:5 split either way. It appeared that the judges had already decided to give the gold to G&G, unless they fell a couple of times.
Of course that does not mean that on internet chatboards we would not have had endless and passionate debates about the 1990 worlds results and the 1994 Olympics results.
Actually, there *were* Internet message boards in the late 1980s and early 1990s. However, there was no World Wide Web and no browser interfaces. If you dig deep enough, you can find them on the web.
I have seen the comparison video where the poster makes her case for G&G. It's an editorial; and, that's okay. Some disagree -- especially Moskvina's assertion about innovation. As great as G&G were, they did nothing to push the practice technically or artistically. Even Hamilton called them text book. M&D changed the slate.
I loved both pairs, but I really loved the way M&D created new and exciting moves. Until then, most of pairs skating was just cookie cutter, and G&G did that style perfectly. It wasn't until they turned pro that they started experimenting.
M&D made pairs skating incredibly hot and exciting.
Well, here they are skating to other famous swan music
While it's refreshingly free of arm flapping, I don't think they seemed really engaged with the music. I think they were probably smart to go with the more powerful Rach2.
They did a better job with it the previous year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLPTvLQ8_mw .
Wasn't it an emergency switch back after criticism of their short at Europeans in 1991? I'm still hoping someone will post to You Tube or DM.
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