Mishkutenok and Dmitriev?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SkateBlades17, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Inspite of the criticism by Bezic (the most biased commentator) and the low marks by the judges, I thought this was a beautiful program to a beautiful piece of music.

    Here is a performance that I had never seen before. It's from Skates of Gold in 1994

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Uhz3b_tA9ps&NR=1
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  2. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nDE2TWcv_4

    Here is another one of M&D's exhibition (1992). IMO they were a very underrated team for what they could do. I liked the fact that Artur was as important in this pair as Natalia was. He was not just a frame showcasing a picture. His passion and their creativity made them a very exciting pair.

    As fans we got to see two greatest pairs M&D and G&G competing at the same time (1989-1990 and 1994), with two completely different styles. I feel very lucky.

    Another thing I really appreciated about M&D was their class. At the 1994 Olympics many felt that they skated better than G&G but at the medal ceremony they were very classy (and so were G&G). It was the best Olympic pairs competition in every respect I have seen, ever.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  3. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Natalia did not double foot her 2A here (94 SP). She often struggled with it in practice but she almost always delivered it in competitions.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYehy9pTNOQ&feature=relmfu

    In all the discussions, people don't mention how good M&D's extensions were, and how great the unison on sbs spins. Their basic skating was not as great(quiet) as G&G's but they were much more creative in their choreography. I really don't know which pair I like better. They were both great in their own way.
  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Natalia M. co-coached Steven Evans to a U.S. Junior Men's pewter medal at 2011 Nationals and he competed at one JGP a couple of years ago - link to his bio: http://web.icenetwork.com/skaters/detail.jsp?id=100827&mode=I
    Evans finished 5th in Senior Men at Midwestern Sectionals last season (just missed qualifying for 2012 Nationals) and hasn't competed this summer, AFAIK. The skaters she's coaching this season appear to be Intermediate level and below. Her daughter, Natasha, is at the Pre-Preliminary level. :)

    Found it - April 2012 "Inside Edge" blog: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120426&content_id=29716584&vkey=ice_news
    Excerpt:
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  5. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Thank you so much for the link. I was looking everywhere for this program, considering that it's 1995, this is probably the very last skating appearance by M&D.

    M&D are my favorite skaters. I just love how unique they were: their innovative choreography, performance style and on-ice chemistry was unlike any other top level pair at the time. In addition to their speed and spirals, I would also mention that they (especially Artur) had great musicality. They were just :kickass:

    The step sequence in 2nd Piano Concerto and the death spiral sequence (especially Natalia's positions) in Liebestraum are just :swoon: X infinity.

    I'm glad the decided to skate to Rachmaninoff, but I would love to have seen their interpretation of Swan Lake as well.

    I thought they should have won the 1994 OGM, but I can understand the logic behind the argument that G&G should have won. What I don't understand, was the decision by the one or two judges to mark M&D behind B&E.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
  6. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    In Katia's book she admits to noticing that the crowd cheered louder for M&D at the 94 medal ceremony and that it made her sad. I always admired her honesty about that.
  7. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

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    Those are my favorite moments in each program too. That driving step sequence down the rink in the Rachmaninoff is so powerful, I love the way it's choreographed.
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  8. Nagano Forever

    Nagano Forever New Member

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    Natalia is a vey nice person. I wish that M/D could have stayed together. It's too bad when personal issues get in the way of beautiful skating pairs. If that is true in the case of M/D.
  9. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    Liebestraum was my favorite program from them. The series of death spirals at the end expressed the music so beautifully. I don't think that would "fly" under CoP, which is a shame.
  10. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    COP has taken away artistry from pairs skating.
  11. Elochka

    Elochka New Member

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    I fell in love with skating because of them and Natalyia'seyes and her plasticity. Built my life upon that :rolleyes: Love them.
  12. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    :lol: I know what you mean. They were a fantastic pairs team. On a more shallow note, I really loved Natalia's short hair cut for the 1993-1994 season. Actually almost everything about the season: the programs, the costumes was divine.
    Welcome to FSU!
  13. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Artur was the first male skater I fell in love with :swoon: - not just his looks (he was pretty good looking back then) but more for his energy and presence and the gorgeous relaxed way he has of moving on the ice :swoon:

    I've loved many since then, but he was the first :)
  14. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I agree - I thought the packages of their programs that season were fabulous.

    I liked how Natalia didn't have a ballet dancers figure but was still incredibly elegant and had such beautiful presentation and posture.
  15. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    I remember the interview where she burst into to tears but I thought it was at the World Pros in Landover (Dick Button's Competition). I thought it was a live interview after they didn't win (she had bursitis in her foot) and Dmitriev said right on camera that he was thinking about looking for another partner. It could have been a recorded fluff piece, but this type of drama was typical at Landover. I remember Zhulin stalking out on Usova after a romantic performance and leaving her alone to get their scores. Nancy Kerrigan made her infamous statement about getting paid the same whether she skated well or not and she'd rather be a mother anyway. Usova/Platov walking past Gritschuk/Zhulin to embrace Punsalan/Swallow. Gritschuk/Zhulin skating to "Smooth Operator". I think that is why skating was more popular in the 90's it was more adult themed.

    I thought that the reason Mishketunok/Dmietriev finally split was because he wanted to compete at another Olympics and she didn't. I had read an interview with Moskvina that they both got fat when they weren't competing and that he smoked like a chimney. I saw him in COI with Kazokova and he had a distinct beer gut.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  16. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I miss M&D so much! May be because their career ended so quickly and suddenly. They were trailblazers, in my opinion because they changed the way pairs performed. Her flexibility gave them many opportunities to create beautiful pictures, and Artur's passion brought him into focus along side his partner, instead of staying in the background.
  17. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    :lol::lol: at this whole thing!!
  18. Nagano Forever

    Nagano Forever New Member

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    Ah how I do miss those days! Don't forget Oksana Baiul and her antics at the World Pro.
  19. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention you never knew what kind of program Denise Biellmann would come up with. Plus you got to see Robin Cousins year after year.
  20. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Nothing beats the early 90s (especiallyin ice dance!) for both :inavoid: skating and backstage drama.

    Does anyone know why M&D, or G&G for that matter, didn't compete at the 1994 World Championships?
  21. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I don't claim to know anything, but I think they just wanted one more Olympics. Worlds were too soon after the Olympics and they had no interest in competing in worlds......this is purely a guess on my part. Many Olympic medal winners skip worlds, so I did not feel it was unusual, but it would have been nice to see them competing at worlds too.
  22. Belinda

    Belinda New Member

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    Does anyone know who choreographed M&D's programs? Is it Moskvina?
  23. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    I believe Tamara Moskvina and Alexandr Matveev (sp?) were M&D's primary choreographers. From what I've read, Artur also had a lot of influence on their choreography, particularly with creating their innovative lifts and other moves and with the Rachmaninoff program. It was his idea to skate to Rachmaninoff in 1994 as well. :) Moskvina wanted them to skate to "Swan Lake" but Dmitriev didn't feel that "Swan Lake" would suit their style, especially when going head-to-head against Gordeeva & Grinkov. He skated his version of Rachmaninoff's 2nd Piano Concerto, and convinced Moskvina that the program would work. Rachmaninoff was a great vehicle for showing off M&D's strengths, and of course in a few years, Moskvina would get another pair team, B&S, who would be tailor made to skate to "Swan Lake." :)
  24. lao1234

    lao1234 Member

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    I believe the Russian Fed indicated that only one reinstated team, the pair who had finished highest at the Olympics, would also compete at Worlds along with Shishkova & Naumov and Eltsove/Bushkov, who had been 4th at Nationals. G&G decided not to go to Worlds and the option wasn't available to M&D. Or at least that's my memory from 1994. Yikes - that's long time ago...
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  25. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Thank you, that's very interesting. I'm surprised the option wasn't available to M&D, I'm wondering if they were injured and/or not interested in competing at Worlds? Because, if I'm the Russian Skating Federation (and who knows, maybe I am, :EVILLE:), if the Olympic Gold Medalists won't be skating at worlds, I'm going to want my Olympic Silver Medalists to be skate in their place. I can't imagine the RSF not offering M&D an opportunity to skate at Worlds after G&G declined, especially when, barring a major meltdown, they'd be heavily favored for the title. Of course, S&N would win the title, and E&B the brozne, so in the end, at least from the Federation's standpoint, everything turned out pretty good.
  26. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Another question for the skating historians out there, does anyone know the music M&D skated to for their 1987-1988 LP? That was the year they placed 4th at Euros.
    I've seen their 1987-1988 SP, but I've never seen the LP for that season. :)
  27. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Actually you kind of do. Usually techno music. Unitard of some sort. Xovers, 2a, Xovers, 3t, Xovers, 3s, more Xovers. End program with Biellman spin then into headless scratch.

    When I watch her programs now, it seems like she spent 90% of the choreography doing back cw xovers
  28. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    The first time I saw them was at 1988 SA, so I have never seen their SP & LP from the previous year. I hope to find those some day on YT. Their exhibitions at SA were really interesting- one was a techno music, the other was Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on the theme by Paganini. They were so creative and so different from any other pair I had seen that I fell in love with them immediately, and it grew from there.
  29. Minou

    Minou Member

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    those early sps seem to be lost, sadly. The 1987 or 88 had a clown theme:

    Here are some cute, staged pics with Selezneyva and Makarov
    http://tinyurl.com/9fludna
    http://tinyurl.com/9blo969
    http://tinyurl.com/9ewwe8c.

    Also, I've heard references to a CanCan SP at the 1991 Euros that was scratched for a return to the dying Swan.
  30. Braulio

    Braulio Well-Known Member

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    Their 1994 Rachmaninoff LP is one if not my favourite pairs performance of all time
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  31. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    A "what if" for you guys..

    If M/D won in Lillehammer, do you think he would've continued onto Nagano?
  32. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I don't think Artur competed at Nagano, because he was disappointed with the silver at Lilehammer. Artur just enjoyed competing during that part of his life. B&S were the IT pair heading into Nagano; It was a fluke that they faltered on their last lift and that enabled D&K to skate to the gold.
  33. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    :lol::lol::lol:
  34. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    It's so fun to watch their earlier routines in particular, when their flexibility was completely new and such a contrast to the other pairs. As part of the 1992 Olympic exhibition, they do a variation on a headbanger, where she's doing a vertical split at the same time. :eek:
    Part of what made this team work, IMHO, was that their unique moves weren't just isolated tricks, but were well integrated into their choreography and programs. Not too mention, they had good skating skills to provide a solid support for their unique moves. I sometimes feel that as amazing as Natalia's flexibility was, when discussing M&D, it sometimes overshadows the fact that they were (IMO) also great pairs skaters as well.

    Another question :rolleyes: Does anyone know why they turned professional right after winning the OGM in 1992? Obviously it is not unprecedented, but the last OGM, G&G, stayed in eligible competition for 2 more seasons, and V&V for an entire Olympic cycle after winning in Sarajevo.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  35. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    According to a poster on youtube, their 2nd Piano Concerto program was developed by Moskvina & Dmitriev, with input by Mishkutenok, the lead choreographer from the Kirov ballet (I'm not sure if this is a reference to Matveev or someone else) and Dmitriev's then wife, Tatiana Druchinina.

    It would have been interesting to see what kind of programs M&D would have been able to come up for themselves in they stayed together after 1994. :)
  36. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I always figured it was because of the personal drama with him marrying Druchinina and having a child and her getting depressed.
  37. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    From the tidbits I gathered from different interviews, Natalia had a mini-crisis after winning the OGM. In an interview Tamara said(paraphrasing)- she (Natalia) was sort of confused after all the success, about what to do next. I am guessing that competing in the Olympics again was far from her mind. She and Artur did not have great success as pros, and Natalia not feeling totally herself/competitive may have been part of the reason.

    It seems Artur realized quickly that he really loved to compete as an eligible, so he took advantage of the reinstatement opportunity. Natalia was not ready initially but she agreed and they gave us some fabulous performances.

    (responding to another poster)- I think Artur loved to compete at the eligible leve- those are the true competions, when compared with the pros, and he must have felt that there was enough left in him to compete again. Natalia was burned out and did not want to compete anymore.
  38. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Thanks. :) I remember the UCAPs made reference to Natalia's depression, which according to the UCAPs was connected to Artur's marriage to Druchinina, but I wasn't sure if that had anything to do with them deciding to go professional, or not. I think B&P also went pro right after 1992, so perhaps it was also a career/$ choice as well. (?)

    At the time, M&D did seem to have one of the more "complex" relationships outside of ice dance, of course. :p I remember watching a clip of the introduction to the pairs long program, the announcer describes G&G as the "sweethearts" B&E were described as "the kids next door" and when they described M&D, it was "she's too big, he's too unruly" or some crap like that. Which, honestly, is probably one of the reasons I like them so much. They didn't fit in a cookie cutter mode of what a pairs couple "should" be like.

    What makes their 1994 Olympic performances even more amazing, is not only did they have a (by their standard) not great year as professionals, personal issues, Natalia's fall in the warm up, and I don't think many people were expecting much from them at the games. Yet, they delievered two :kickass: performances.

    @ Minou, I lurve the pics of M&D and S&M, two of my all time favorite pairs. :)
  39. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Bechke & Petrov did better than expected at the 92 Olympics. Elena overcame her nerves and delivered two solid performances. I particularly loved their Nutcracker LP (later they made it into a technical program for a pro competition). They were never gold medal favorites, so they seized the opportunity, turned pro, wowed the audiences with their creative moves and developed into a great pro pair. (I know I am digressing from the main thread here).

    Unfortunately for M&D, they were no longer the favorites to win the gold after G&G announced their intent to return in 1994. IMO they were both great pairs and it was the golden age of pairs skating.
  40. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Well, Elena and Artur did try-out together before he paired with Natalia, so you're not digressing too much. ;)
    But yes, I loved B&P's programs that year, especially their Nutcracker LP. I just saw an excerpt of the LP from a different angle than the American broadcast (it was Russia broadcast), and Elena had the biggest smile on her face after she landed her throw. :) Talk about another skater who was able to, against all expectations, :kickass: when it really counted.

    Speaking of 1992, I always felt bad for the 1992 Olympic medalists from the F.S.U. when the Olympic flag & anthem was raised in their honor. I was watching the medal ceremonies, and I don't know, but they all just looked so dejected. I'm sure they knew that the IOC flag would be raised in their honor, but I'm sure it still felt like a slap in the face at the same time. One thing that did make me smile, though, was that in the Canadian broadcast of the medal ceremony, the announcers were talking about how, according to people in the know, Dmitriev had the potential to be one of the best of all times. :) Of course, I would just modify that slightly, and also include Natalia as one of the best of all time as well.
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