Mishkutenok and Dmitriev?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SkateBlades17, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. SkateBlades17

    SkateBlades17 New Member

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    I was never that into pairs skating when I was young, so I didn't follow what happened with Mishkutenok and Dmitriev. I'm just wondering, why did they split up and then he skate with Oksana Kazakova? Watching old tapes back, Mishkutenok and Dmitriev were really beautiful together!
  2. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    She wanted to retire but he didn't iirc
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  3. oliver

    oliver New Member

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    iirc, there was a "romance" problem....
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  4. berthesghost

    berthesghost New Member

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    Yeah, dontya just hate it your guy knocks up some other girl. :p
  5. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Morozov was at it even then!?
  6. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

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    i thought the backstory then was that mishkutenuk (sp?) was attracted to dmitriev, and that caused an awkward tension between the two since dmitriev was with someone else?
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  7. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    I had heard this too (that she liked him but he didn't in that way). But I'm not sure if this was speculation or if it was confirmed or not.
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  8. BaileyCatts

    BaileyCatts Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure I'll get slammed for not providing video proof of this, which I can't provide, but I actually did see this during a fluff piece on a US skating broadcast in mid-1990's (I'm guessing it was between 1992 and 1994 Olympics), and have always remembered it. In this fluff piece, M&D were being interviewed and Natalia literally broke down in tears when they were talking about no longer skating together, and the theme of the interview was that she was in love with Artur and thought they would be married, when he did not feel the same about her. I also remember it was said that Artur and their coaches had to hide the fact that his girlfriend was going to have a baby from Natalia so that she would not be distracted from competing.

    Like I said, I can't provide a link, cause lawdy knows what event I saw it on with the dozens of skating shows we got (blessed) with in the 1990's, but I did see this on US television, I'm guessing CBS.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
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  9. berthesghost

    berthesghost New Member

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    ^ the whole thing was spun like "crazy stalker bitch threatens their chance for gold" but they all admitted to lying to her, and I'm not convinced he didn't lead her on for years just so they'd look more loved up on ice. G&G were a hard act to top.
  10. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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  11. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    Back here in Blighty we never get any good gossip from the BBC.
    Tell me more...............................................
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  12. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    Artur wasn't married when all of this drama took place but to be clear, the "girl friend" became his first wife (they are now divorced) and the baby was Artur, Jr. So it wasn't just some casual thing. Artur is coaching in Russia now.

    Natalia has her own family and coaches in Texas these days.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
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  13. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    That's gotta be a tough situation for everyone. Usually you just hear about the pairs who end up getting married. Not one-sided romances!
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  14. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I never heard about that one. I had heard things along the retirement line, that they didn't do well as professionals, that she became too big, etc. Who lot of stuff.
  15. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I definitely heard about the 'big' thing.. while she was noticeably larger than the other women competing in the pairs in '94 she was not at all fat by 'normal' standards!!
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  16. LuckyCharm

    LuckyCharm Well-Known Member

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    In the 94 Olympics fluff, it was presented as Artur having been a "big brother" figure to her and that was why she had such a hard time with the fact that he was basically growing up and getting a life. IIRC, she did break down and cry in that one, so it may have been the same one you described. However, the commentator didn't say anything to suggest that there was any romantic feeling between them, although it seemed obvious that there was, at least on Natalia's part. I mean, a grown woman just doesn't break down and cry on TV over losing her "brother figure" to his new wife. On the other hand, if she'd spent her whole life in the rink with no sense of herself outside of skating and no clue what she was going to do after it was over, I guess she could get that upset about the fact that the closest person to her moving on and leaving her behind, so who knows. I remember in the Goodwill Games exhibition (their last competition together, I think) they skated to "Somewhere In Your Heart" and I wasn't sure if it was a coincidence or a deliberate message. I was so ridiculously obsessed with this pair at the time.

    Re: The weight thing, she'd apparently gained a lot of weight after Albertville. She'd lost most of it by the time they returned to competition in 94. I do remember them being disappointed with their pro career during that period, but post 94 was a different ballgame. I can't imagine them not at least making a comfortable living if they'd stuck around.
  17. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  18. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

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    Whatever it is, I freaking loved them. Omg.:( Still one of the most inventive, charismatic pairs of all time. And I loved the death glares Natasha gave Artur when he made a mistake. They were awesome.:lol:
  19. Minou

    Minou Member

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    Natalia was dating Alexei Urmanov in 1992 --it was a long-term relationship -- when Artur told her he was going to be a father and get married. Natalia and Alexei were a super cute couple.

    Their romance is highlighted here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckFYpyXOmzs
    Aleksei Urmanov (EUN) - 1992 Albertville, Men's Free Skate

    I think a lot of the "jilted Natasha" press was spin, especially leading up to the 1998 JO. I also think M&D may have had a teenage romance that passed...

    And the swan comment? Natalia was a beautiful Swan à la Saint-Saens. Being a fan, I also think Natalia's superior line, edges, and much more are overlooked due to repeated discussions about her weight and flexibility.

    They're my all time favs.
  20. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

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    So Urmanov dated Marina Anissina and also Natalia M... The guy has some good taste :)
  21. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I remember seeing a fluff piece where Natalia talked about how she "lost some kilos... about 4 kilos." I believe this was during 1994 Olys.
  22. Jemestone

    Jemestone New Member

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    ^ Yes, this one. She didn't cry in it but they showed a clip where she broke down while sitting next to Dmitriev. She talks about losing weight and cutting her hair.
  23. SkateBlades17

    SkateBlades17 New Member

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    Thanks everyone for the info. Wow I got more than I thought I would asking this, I never knew about the one-sided romance stuff, etc. Regardless, they were beautiful skating together anbd it's too bad they couldn't have stayed together as a pair.
  24. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    :eek::lol: OMG the bit at the end where he is throwing his baby around!

    Here is one of their professional performances

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-40qZAY2Gw&feature=related
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  25. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Their pair spin was really innovative. They seemed to be more spunky than the typical "classical" Russian pair.
  26. sequins

    sequins New Member

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    Holy crap I never knew all this. I only ever saw them perform once in the 94 Olys and loved them thought they should've won, still do, but I had no idea about all this it's:eek: and a kinda:(
  27. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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  28. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    I remember quite the brouhaha over this comment from Moskvina about Natalia's weight:

    Pairs Skating Can Lead to Double the Trouble
  29. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I remember thinking that M&D were so much more exciting to watch than G&G. It seemed G&G won due to being the favorites.

    After re-watching the programs, I just don't know. M&D had a lot more elements in the program. G&G's looked sparse/boring. But it may be because G&G made the difficult look so easy.
  30. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I rewatched both of them and whilst there were mistakes, G&G had a clarity of line and ease of movement that is quite special. And whilst you can't hear it, apparently the one thing they had above the other skaters was their quietness on the ice. I also felt they had a better connection to the music. As the commentator said on the clip I saw, it was as if Beethoven had written that music for them. I don't think I got quite the same connection with M&D.
  31. skfan

    skfan New Member

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    YMMV. the olympics was the weakest performance of that moonlight sonata program. i don't think G&G made everything look easy--when you stumble, you aren't making it look easy. under 6.0 judging they made more than 1 mistake. M&D were not *so* inferior to them that they should have had a 2 stumbles cushion. the judges judged the practices and pre-awarded the gold to G&G. yes, i am still peeved about the 94 olympics :lol:

    i'm glad that natalia landed on her feet and i still root for her students today... unless they are wearing oven-mitts :)
  32. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    I preferred M&D by a mile, but I really have to stand up for the difficulty and seamless of G&G lifts.

    I've seen some more exciting lifts since then, but I don't think I've seen a higher quality set of lifts performed in a LP since that performance. The one lift were they are in one hand position and she's actually rotating her body around in the air... I don't think I've seen that since. :kickass:
  33. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

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    ITA!! They were mesmerizing. There hasn't been a pairs team since them that I love as much as I loved them. :swoon:
  34. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    M&D skated with passion in LilliHamer; The ending with Artur leaping with abandon into the air and then Natalia skating right into his open arms was thrilling; One of the best endings to a pairs' LP. Ever.

    G&G probably had better flow and better quality throws, but they made obvious mistakes in both the SP and LP. Moonlight was also a rather traditional LP that we've seen from other pairs before. The one thing I did love about the Moonlight choreography was when Sergei and Katia's arms weaved over and under each other but never touched. That was a brilliant moment from Marina.
  35. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I have watched that competition over and over again and I still cannot decide which pair was better. I go back and forth on the win. They really were apples and oranges. However, M&D skated two solid performances, and G&G's mistake in SP and minor mistakes in the LP were totally ignored by the judges. G&G's LP performance got a 6.0 for artistic marks, but M&D were equally deserving of a 6.0, which was not given to them.

    Argument could be made in G&G's favor because of their stronger basic skating skills but M&D were no slouches either. They skated with great passion between them, with the same level of difficulty as G&G (actually their lifts were more challenging, and they did sbs 3t vs. G&G's sbs 2A- just minor things), and their 94 Oly LP performance is one of the best ever. It was good enough to win the gold. That is why the 8-1 (only the Belarus judge placed M&D higher) judging decision in G&G's favor bothered me. They had already decided who would win the gold.

    I always loved M&D's creative choreography. IMO they really changed pairs skating from doing standard pairs moves. Before them, Valova-Vasiliev had some creative moves too, but the beauty of M&D's Lieberstaum was incomparable to anyone before them. They had a great impact on the sport.

    Going back to the original question- why did they split up- there could have been a combination of reasons, but IMO the deciding factor was that Natalia was burned out after competing in two Olympics, but Artur wanted to go on to 1998. She was not feeling too motivated after their 1992 OGM, and many Olympic champions don't feel motivated enough to continue after an OGM, so who can blame her? Regardless, I was very disappointed that they suddenly broke up. They had not had a lot of success as pros between 92 and 94, but after the 94 Olympics they seemed to be really good and on way to becoming even greater.

    When Artur looked for another partner, he looked for a smaller partner, since he had that choice. Natalia was big for a pairs skater, but Artur was very strong, so I don't think it was an issue when they were skating together. I don't buy that romance/broken heart story either. I liked Kazakova & Dmitriev, but never as much as Mishkutenok-Dmitriev. There was a charm about them that very few teams have.

    Even with two mistakes, M&D's Liebestraum is one of the greatest performances in pairs skating.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-lIi2YAJyY&feature=related

    I love this exhibition by M&D:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=gvNC_zfEPIw&NR=1

    Here is another exhibition- I had completely forgotten this one. They were so creative and exciting to watch!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZQC34u4AfQ
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  36. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    You are right. G&G did not make everything look easy. Katia landed forward on the throw 2A. Sergei's minor mistakes (losing unison on the 2f and singling the 2S) were ignored by the judges. The loss of unison on the sbs camel spins in the SP was also ignored, in a way (their tech marks were slightly low, but the artistic marks put them ahead). Basically they had the gold unless she had fallen on a throw. M&D were undermarked in both SP and LP (particularly in the LP- leaving plenty of room for G&G). Since I loved both pairs, I was not as upset as some others about the final results, but it greatly bothered me to see M&D get such low marks after two perfect performances.

    Who are Natalia's students? Do they compete at the international level?
  37. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    I thought they were clean in the sp?
    G&G were such a textbook pair that, without those small miscues, I could have easily seen them getting a row of 6.0's for both marks, so an argument could be made that they were actually marked down.

    Again I think people are undervaluing G&G having three incredibly difficult and perfectly executed lifts to only two for M&D, neither of which came close to the difficulty that G&G had. M&D's one arm overhead lift only goes to one arm for about one second. The second lift never goes to one arm, and all the difficulty comes in the dismount.

    Again, I prefer M&D by a mile, but I understand the judging.
  38. Minou

    Minou Member

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  39. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    Artistically, I also found M/D much more interesting than G/G. There was a great beauty to G/G's Moonlight Sonata program but it also bored me to a certain extent. The problem with M/D was with some of their basics. Their stroking was much noisier than G/G who you can barely hear when they skate by whereas with M/D, you can really hear them digging and scratching into the ice. Artur always traveled on the side by side spins, Natalia almost always two footed her double axel, and their lifts were much simpler. G/G skated a nervous and flawed performance but their basics were so much better than M/D. It's to my understanding that this was the difference between the Moscow and St. Petersburg camp (technical perfection vs. artistic perfection).
  40. skfan

    skfan New Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalia_Mishkutenok
    wiki says: One of her students is the U.S. men's 2009 novice silver medalist Stevan Evans. don't know if this is out of date

    this icenetwork article is quite old.
    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080121&content_id=41116&vkey=ice_news

    i believe there was a more recent ice network article as well, where she was asked why all the russian pairs had problems at 2012 worlds--that article mentions her more recent students. Sylvia would know best who her current students are. i know she definitely coached angela maxwell in the past.


    re: G&G and M&D in '94, if lifts and unison were all that counted, and skaters should not be penalized for mess ups on individual jumps, then donlan & speroff should have been U.S. champs several times over. skaters have to perform ALL the elements in the program. it all depends on how you weigh the elements, and the overall impact. for me the first mistake by G&G already shattered the mood, which even when successfully achieved doesn't give me the palpable thrill of M&D. YMMV
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012