Minimum Total Technical Scores for 2012-13 ISU Championships (including Jr Worlds)

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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  2. query5

    query5 New Member

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    please answer me this, does the skaters who don't go to gp events in jr/sr still can qualify through level B's like Nebelhorn, Finland, Leo Schue Memorial, Cup of Nice, etc or just Jr/Sr/ Gp events.
     
  3. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    Yes, and you may see more skaters/teams seeking to compete at those events, in order to earn the qualifying score.
     
  4. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    So does a skater to meet both the short and long TES requirements or just one? Sorry if this has already been covered.
     
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Both the short and long, but the skaters/teams can meet them in different competitions, ex: SP minimum at Nebelhorn, FS minimum at CoC or Cup of Nice.
     
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  6. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    So basically Canada's ladies entry to next year's worlds is decided, even if she has a poor season? :p
     
  7. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    Not quite. While as of now only one Canadian lady has met the minimum, others have an opportunity to do so in international events on the ISU calendar prior to the 2013 worlds. Or maybe the smile icon means the question is facetious, I never can decipher these clever faces.
     
  8. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    I know Canada hasn't literally decided the spot, it was a comment on how weak our ladies are that we might only have one option for the worlds spot. After all, Lacoste, Phaneuf, and any other ladies we have all failed to reach the minimum score last season. It's possible this could be the case again. If that happens we would *have* to send Osmond, regardless of whether she meets the minimum score this season or even has a good year.
     
  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    If none of the other Canadian women can get the minimum score at any of their other events -- Lacoste and a TBA will have an opportunity at a GP event, because this year it's not required that a host pick meet the GP minimum -- nor at 4C's -- both Phaneuf and Lacoste have met the TES minimums for 4C's -- nor at Senior B's, if Skate Canada decides to use its spots, then who else would deserve to go to Worlds? If someone does so well at Canadian Nationals that they earn a spot at 4C's, but can't replicate enough of that performance at 4C's, the only choice Skate Canada has is to keep sending its National Champ and/or Phaneuf to the Hellmut Siebt Memorial the week following 4C's or one of 1st Citta’ di Torino Trophy or Challenge Cup 2013 two weeks after 4C's.

    The only other choice is to send no one and to hope that a Canadian lady earns an Olympic spot at Nebelhorn. Or, send no one and hope that a Canadian lady doesn't earn a spot at Nebelhorn/send no Lady to Nebelhorn, so that they can send Rochette for the team event only.

    It wouldn't be very popular to have a World Championships in London without a Canadian Lady, unless the one who qualified had an inconvenient injury, or they forced Osmond into another Junior Worlds, since it's up to them whom they submit for Worlds. Were she to complain publicly, she would be kissing future SC support goodbye.
     
  10. query5

    query5 New Member

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    Thank you
     
  11. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    At LPIDC, not a single team would have qualified, due to inadequate TES in the SD

    sd min is 29: not one of Group A or Group B (Is it really 29 :eek:)???? Chock / Bates close at 27.50, Orford / Williams next close at 25.93

    fd min is 39: (43.68 orford & williams, 42.49 chock & bates, 41.80 Kriengkrairut & giuletti-schmitt, 41.27 cannuscio & Mcmanus, 39.59 Nardozzi & Traxler (this seems more reasonable)
     
  12. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is. :wall:

    I'm not that much of an ice dance fan, but 29.00 is ridiculous.

    Only eight couples scored that high at Worlds this past season, four scored that high at Four Continents, and five did at Euros. Needless to say, there was a substantial overlap.

    I guess having only a dozen or so couples qualify for Worlds is going to make everyone at the ISU and any potential host federations deliriously happy. Don't count on there being an Ice Dance competition at the Olympics in 2014, though. :shuffle:
     
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Those ridiculously high minimum scores have to get lowered...
     
  14. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    Would watching only top 10 or so skaters per discipline competing at Worlds wake their lazy as*es? I was really baffled once again with the article above when it pointed out that Mao couldn't even make it to that minimum score last season. I mean, it's Mao ASADA for god's sakes. If she couldn't, who could and whom are ISU officials are expecting to see at Worlds?
     
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I would make a guess that the numbers have been set so high in order to really scare the national federations and show them they'd better give up on ideas of removing preliminary rounds or else...

    :( :mad:

    ETA: Well it's official now for this season...

    http://www2.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/...3,4844-205151-222374-nav-list,00.html?id=1103

    The repercussions in terms of funding for national federations ('why should we give you any government money if you aren't even able to get skaters to qualify to compete at major championships?') and athlete participation might be painful.

    Congrats ISU for helping to kill the sport instead of developing it. :rolleyes:

    There really are no words...
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  16. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    It certainly will be painful to see skaters struggle through the season to get that minimum scores. Ughh, what a situation!
     
  17. ice_sk8r

    ice_sk8r New Member

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    As a competitive skater myself trying to earn the only spot for my country for worlds, it saddens me that some of you are unhappy to have some of the smaller countries compete at Worlds. I train as hard as I can, with no funding from my federation or outside help, I have to work full time to fund my skating and have sacrificed a lot in order to compete, but some of you would just prefer to see the top elite skaters? That's what the Grand prix circuit is about, Worlds should be open to anyone who is Eligible to compete there. Look at Tomas Verner, he used to not even qualify for the Long Program at Europeans to suddenly being able to win them, the same with Stephane Lambiel, skating at worlds should not be a priviledge afforded to the same top billing countries, if that's what they want they should adapt the world team trophy, not restrict worlds.

    I'm not one of the naturally talented skaters that you see at Worlds, I didn't have the chance to 'work my way through the circuit' like some of you suggested, because I couldn't do triples until I was 19, which isn't bad considering I returned to skating after a 7 year gap at age 16. But through hard work and determination I now have the ability to do through to a triple lutz but the ever Elusive triple axel is something I'm struggling to learn.

    It's always been my dream to skate at Worlds and I'm in with a shot of winning my national championships this year after finishing 4th last year, (I'm from Great Britain, by the way) and I don't see why I shouldn't get the chance to go just because I can't get a technical score that skaters such as Jeremy Abbott and Artur Gachinski struggled to get at worlds last year. I know they got the score else where but if they can't get it sometimes, most of us might as well give up now.

    I don't want to go to worlds to win, I want to go to be able to say that I was there. To be able to say that all the blood, sweat, tears and sacrifices I've made throughout my career was worth it. From some of your comments, I can tell that a lot of you have never been skaters, which is fine, I understand that this is a fan's forum, but look at it from our point of view. We spend the majority of our lives waking up at ridiculous times in the morning, sacrificing simple things that other people take for granted like a social life, like relationships etc, or the damage we do to our body in the long run and the injuries we sustain to achieve our goals and dreams. Why should a group of people in a room stop us from going to the World Championships to represent our countries because we can't attain a ridiculously high technical score?

    I know some of you are going to say because they're the one that pay for the us to go etc etc, and yes that is true, but there seems to be plenty of money given to the skaters and medallists at the GP and GPF events, how about we cut down some of their money and use it so that the smaller countries where skating isn't a big deal, like GB can have the joy of representing their country that some of the other skaters take for granted.

    I'm happy to discuss this, as I was quite frankly shocked when the scores were posted, i just thought some of you might like to know what a skater thinks about it.
     
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  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing your personal experience, ice_sk8r.

    This is exactly the point I was trying to make.

    Some countries have very few ice rinks, limited ice-time, lack of high level coaches and hardly any funding.

    Obviously skaters who live and train in those countries are not on a level playing field with American, Canadian and Russian skaters who benefit from extremely well developed skating programmes and tons of ice rinks (yes I know that American skaters have limited funding as well but in comparison with most countries in the world, the levels of disposable income - which can fund your children's skating - are much higher).

    In any sport, only the top few percent will ever attain the highest level of performance.

    It does not mean that none of the others work hard and that they take part in Worlds, treating it as if it was a holiday (Cinquanta's 'our championships aren't festivals' comment was just :rolleyes:).

    Some skaters don't have the best conditions, some didn't take up skating until they were older, some don't have the natural talent or the perfect body type for this sport. Some are unlucky with injuries.

    But this doesn't mean they aren't working hard.

    I guess what ISU is doing might make sense from a business perspective.

    Focus on the few 'skating powerhouse' countries which bring the sponsors and the money and screw the rest sideways.

    But it goes totally against the ideals of 'amateur', Olympic sport.

    ISU should be responsible for promoting the sport, encouraging mass participation, inspiring young people to take it up. Not turning it into an exclusive, professional circuit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  19. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I think that the qualification for a skater/team at championships is that he/she/it have shown, in international competition, that he/she/it can do the minimum required elements in the SP/SD.
     
  20. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    The minimum jump content that is required of senior men or ladies would be double axel and two different triples with double toe on the end of one of them:

    2A 3.5
    3T 4.1
    3S 4.2
    2T 1.3

    For spins and steps, let's say the minimum is level 1, despite the introduction of the Basic level this year:

    CCoSp1 2.0

    FCSp1 1.9
    (FSSp1 is 2.0, FUSp1 is 1.7)

    LSp1 (ladies) 1.9

    CSSp (men) 1.9 (CCSp is 2.0)

    StSq1 1.8


    So if I've done my math right that adds up to 20.8 base value TES for a legal, clean, easy short program.

    For Euros and 4Cs, I don't think more than that should be required for ladies -- higher levels and/or positive GOEs on some elements could make up for minor mistakes or a missing jump revolution here or there, but a skater who just cannot rotate double axels or triple jumps would not make that technical score.

    For men, expect at least one more and/or harder triple jump.

    So the current SP cutoffs of 20 ladies and 25 men for Euros/4Cs seem reasonable.

    It's the big jump up in the minimum required for Worlds that's the problem. I still wonder how they were arrived at.
     
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  21. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    ice_sk8r, I really appreciate your first-hand sentiment about the situation and I do feel for you as many others here do. Worlds should be festive events for all athletes around the world, like currently going-on Olympic is.
     
  22. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    ice_sk8r, welcome to FSU.

    If you stick around, you will quickly learn that FSU is not for the faint of heart, and any competitive skater who ventures in does so at his own risk.

    That said, most people who post here on the subject of the minimum scores feel that the coming season's minimum scores are way too high and should either be drastically lowered or done away with. Most of us weren't too happy about the Preliminary Rounds either. But there are those who disagree. Such is life. :shuffle:
     
  23. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Preliminary Rounds were horrible but I can understand that with the big increase of the number of entries, ISU Championships because too expensive to host.

    Hopefully after the 'shock and awe' of those huge minimum scores, maybe national federations can agree to pay their own expenses for next season in exchange for scrapping preliminaries/huge minimum scores?

    Although of course that would create another problem. For skaters from federations with hardly any/no funding, the cost of going to ISU Championships would become even more prohibitive. :(
     
  24. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    What happened to using fall events to gather minimum score?
     
  25. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I don't think qualification should be based only on a minimum score. I don't think that + GOE or higher levels should compensate for not being able -- i.e., demonstrated in one or more international events -- to do the minimum required content. By demonstrated, I mean a ratified element without a fall, including "<", but not "<<". A skater at the senior level without two triples, one in combination, a 2A, and each of the required spins and FW passes shouldn't qualify for championships. For juniors the bar is lower, with the skater being able to do a double [required solo jump]. For the SD and Pairs SP, there are different criteria.

    I also think a skater should get zero credit in the SP/SD for not completing elements, although elements with -GOE, apart from falls and "<<" should.
     
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    The minimum scores can be attained during any of the ISU international events during the 2012/2013 season.
     
  27. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I think Marco is confusing meeting the GP minimums (any combination of TES and PCS) at the early Fall events and meeting the championships TES minimums, which can be met at any of the events listed in Communication 1727 (list of international events). Both still apply, although there is one less event (five) before GP this year.
     
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh ok, thanks for clarifying. :)
     
  29. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    I don't know of many other sports where the hosts are expected to pay for accommodation/meal expenses of competitors. Let's get real - figure skating is an elitist and expensive sport. If you're not able to pay for a hotel bill for a few days, then that is the least of your worries.
     
  30. eleonorad

    eleonorad New Member

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    I think there's nothing wrong with the mininum tech score, the only problem is that they picked really high scores.