Miki Ando's LP's of the last three seasons

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by cx3, Nov 11, 2010.

  1. cx3

    cx3 New Member

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    I've noticed that Miki Ando no longer seems to attempt the 3F in her LP. The earliest I can find this happening is World 09. Can anyone think of a reason that she would do this? She is known as a jumper, after all.
  2. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD New Member

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    Who knows? She used to lip but fixed the edge around 2007-08, and is doing flips quite well in SPs, so...yeah. No answer.
  3. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    Miki used to take off from the wrong edge and since she fixed this problem, the Flip has become her most inconsistent jump. She still does one in the SP, though.

    :)
  4. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Really? I've thought her flip was quite good actually. She seems to have the most trouble with rotating/landing the triple lutz.
  5. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe her flip is prone to being under-rotated?
  6. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    She seems to tend to pop it/fall on it more often since she fixed the edge change.
  7. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    :)
  8. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I see your point. I just remember her falling on the 3Lz at Worlds.
  9. Lainerb

    Lainerb New Member

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    Her flip faced some downgrades during 08-09 season, so perhaps that's why they took it out. Also, the point value between a 3loop and 3flip is now just .2 points so perhaps they figure it's not worth the risk any longer. If anything Miki should do two 3loops in her long program instead of two 3toes.
  10. Milan

    Milan Member

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    I believe the flip has been present in her short programs over the past few seasons (unless I'm wrong), albeit it has been prone to downgrades. I do not see the rationale of doing a flip as a solo jump in the short program, only to leave it out in the long program.
  11. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    While I perfectly understand why she is no longer attempting the 3Flip in the LP, I've never understood why she is still attempting it in the SP.
    Her Loop is definitely better and more consistent.
  12. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Until this season 3f was worth a whole half point more than 3lo so she probably did it to have the most competitive jump layout.
  13. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Well, if she plans to attempt the 3Lz+3Lo, she can't do the 3Lo as her solo jump.
  14. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    She did 3Lz+3Lo in her COC SP and bank 9 point for that combo even with the < and -GEO. I think she will put that combo in the LP as the season goes and by the time major events come, GPF, National, 4CC, World so she cannot put another solo 3Lo in her program. If she nail 3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo, the jumps content will be pretty competitive even with a <.
  15. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

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    Funny thing is, the last time she landed the 3lz+3loop of this quality was 2 years ago at COC too. Only thing is she got full credit for it. :lol:

    She should replace the flip, her worse jump, for the sal, her best jump IMO.The flip may gain her about a point more, but she likely will not get positive GOE's for it, not to mention, it is wildly inconsistent. She could instead be putting some efforts in trying a variety of entrances and or footwork leading into the salchow to get the quality marks. IMO. :)
  16. all_empty

    all_empty Well-Known Member

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    You have her repeating three triples (3L, 3Lo, 3T), which she cannot do.

    She could swap the second Lutz for a flip, but why do that since her Lutz is usually pretty solid and worth more points? Maybe the second toe loop?
  17. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    I thought this thread was about how similar (in boredom :coffee:) Ando's programs have been this past 3 seasons:confused:
  18. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

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    Maybe because she's been given the same programs for exactly 3 seasons lol...
  19. ks777

    ks777 Well-Known Member

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    at least her postures seem to have improved. Her gala dress this season reminds me of a wedding dress... I wonder if it's getting close?
  20. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    :scream: :yikes:
    That is when an intervention needs to be staged.
  21. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I see what you mean. I don't see many 3Lz/3Loop from her, but just in case, it's better to work another jump then 3Loop as solo triple. I agree. ;)
  22. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    No. Under this jump layout, she will do 2 Lutz, 2 Toeloop, 2 Loop and 1 Salcow (no Flip). Double jumps (loop or toeloop) doesn't count under the rule. She still doing two Lutz which is her best jump IMO, and with Flip jump being close to loop in base value, it only give her less than 1/4 of a point in advantage. < loop jump will get more credit than Flip jump that was poped, fall or get an edge call.
  23. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    I also thought this was going to be about the similarities of her recent LPs, considering her LP this year is basically her 09 LP which was basically her 07 LP. I still love her though. :D
  24. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't think you're quite getting it. She would be doing the 3Lz twice, the 3Lo twice and the 3T twice, which is not allowed. She can't repeat more than two triple jumps, and the repeated triples must include at least one in combination. Under your proposed jump layout, her 3T would receive no credit.
  25. krenseby

    krenseby New Member

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    You still love her despite so many of her LPs being eerily similar? You've got a big heart, let me tell you!
  26. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD New Member

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    It always goes

    1. Music starts
    2. Slight interpretation/posing for a few seconds
    3. Immediate crossovers towards the judges and then glides away into the back left corner (from the judges' perspective)
    4. Lutz-loop combo

    :lol:
  27. krenseby

    krenseby New Member

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    Is that Morozov's standard program opening for all his skaters or is Miki the only one he gives this choreography too?
  28. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know if she can do a triple lutz-triple toe?
  29. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    Oh I know love. Also, most of the time I'm drunk.
  30. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    :rofl:
  31. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    Actually under the proposed layout (3Lz+3Lo, 2A+3T, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T, 2A+2Lo+2Lo) all repeat jump are done with combination. The first 3Lutz in combination with 3Loop, and solo lutz later. Same goes for 3Loop, first in back end of Lutz combo and later as solo jump. And 3Toe in combination with 2A and solo jump later.

    Doesn't mater what combination you did, you can do 3T+3T or 3T+2T or 3T+1T or 2A+3T and all are count as in combination. You misread the rule, under the rule you cannot repeat triple jumps more than TWICE. Its the third jump that will get no credit. Even if you fail to do the second jump in combination, you still get partial credit, 80% of the original value. -20% penalty for failing to do in combination.

    Best example will be Irina Slutskya 2005 world LP. She did three triple loop in the program and the third jump got zero credit.
  32. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    LOL I for one don't have a problem with that. After all, she is setting up big triple+triple combo and what ever works for her. Isn't Kim do the same thing, music start, smile and look at the judges, do some primsy arm moves and flip-toe combo?? I also notice Kim always do her Flip-toe in right corner of the rink. Majority of all the skaters always open their program in similar way. Maybe its a comfort zone to start of the program?? who knows.
  33. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    :wall:

    No. This is not correct. You cannot repeat more than two triple jumps. You can repeat two (and no more than two) triple jumps, and at least one must be in combination.

    From the ISU technical panel handbook for single skating:

    Source

    It doesn't matter if all three repeated jumps are in combination, when she's not allowed to repeat a third triple in the first place.
  34. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    She always seems to do combinations with loop jumps on the back end, except for if the first jump is a double axel. It would appear she has a very nice 3t but I guess the loop is a more secure jump for her in combinations? You would think a 3lz-3t would be significantly easier to execute and rotate for most skaters...
  35. ks777

    ks777 Well-Known Member

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    Miki's least favorite jump is a toe-loop jump, so I read in an interview a long time ago. I think she could do a 3lutz/3toe if she wants to. She used to do a 3toe/3toe and a 3lutz/3loop in a program.
  36. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Oleada is right. Under your layout, she's repeating three different types of Triple jumps. A skater cannot do that.

    In order to be allowed to repeat a Triple Jump, one of the attempts must be in combination. However, just because you do three different triples in combination doesn't mean a skater is allowed to repeat all three triples. He/she is only limited to repeating two of the three triples they put in combination.

    This Zayak rule has been effect for more than twenty years now and hasn't changed, even with the advent of the COP.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2010
  37. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    Ohhh ic. thanks!!
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  38. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    You have Miki repeating the Triple Lutz, Triple Toe, and Triple Loop.

    She can only repeat two of those jumps. No need to roll your eyes since Oleada was only stating the rules as they have existed in the past 20+ years.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2010
  39. falling_dance

    falling_dance The Scarlet Unlettered

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    nm (I see that oleada and VIETgrlterifa have explained this very well already.)
  40. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    As falling_dance, VIETgrlTerifa, and I have explained, you have Miki repeating the 3Lz, 3T and 3Lo. That's three (count them. three. 1, 2, 3) different triples she would be repeating. As referenced in the ISU technical handbook, this is not permitted.