Miki Ando won the championship, exceeding 200 points for the first time

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Akira Andrea, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    SOME of her PCS scores are a bit over the top, I agree, like interpretation when she usually has a blank look on her face. But I mean, I think we can all agree she has good skating skills, and she does have some nice transitions even though her programs are usually slow across the ice. She's a bit like the Joubert of ladies skating. Further, while her PCS are high when she skates well, they aren't super high, so I don't take too much of an issue with it as she's nowhere near to breaking PCS records. A lot of PCS is based on reputation anyway, and Miki's a former world champion who has been skating consistently well this season. We can see from her SP scores earlier this season and in previous seasons that the judges have no problem knocking her down a few pegs when she isn't clean. For me though, when Miki goes clean (which she often does), everything just sort of works. I find her elegant even though she's a bit bland and methodical. And you have to admit she's come a LONG way since her days of being a jumping machine with questionable fitness and stamina and cringe worthy spins and spirals.
     
  2. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    And this is acceptable? :scream:
     
  3. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Actually at 4C's Miki's total points in the long program for spins was higher than Alissa's. Not by much, but still I would have thought it would have been the reverse, with a bigger difference in Alissa's favor. Miki's spins imo are on the slow side.
     
  4. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    Oh my :eek:
     
  5. all_empty

    all_empty Well-Known Member

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    Miki used to be far more flexible, including the Biellman

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6h_FJeVfXE

    (some pretty nice spirals in this program, and the quad)

    and a layback with a pretty good arch in her back:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4bxjcWdetw&NR=1

    (good flying sit spin here)

    But, like any skater, she's matured (quite beautifully) into a woman and also had her fair share of injuries.

    Her spins are respectable now, though I hate the sit position where she twists and grabs her foot. I wish skaters did more than the minimum three camel-sit-upright position in their combination spins, but with so many level requirements they're not doing multiple changes of positions anymore.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  6. RussianDream

    RussianDream New Member

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    Im sorry but Miki's 200+ score is just bull. With no 3-3 and just rushing jumps after 2 min mark? lol... Somebody plz explain to me how she got 2 and 3goe on her jump and spin. She barely had any transition at all on her jumps except for step sequence on few of her jumps but thats it. She's slow as usual too. Esp at spin, how the hell did she get 3 or 2 goe. I think she deserved lvl4 spin but great of execution? NO WAY!
     
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  7. Jenny81

    Jenny81 Active Member

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    :eek:
     
  8. Ankka

    Ankka New Member

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    I seem to be one of the few who actually thinks she deserves her high PCS. In my opinion her interpretation of music is actually really good, just not in a flashy way. But her body movements, especially arms, look to me like she feels the music... And also, she doesn't use flashy music either, I mean, her music is kinda subtle and melancholic. If she were to attack more, I think she wouldn't interpret her current music as well as she does now. The same goes with smiling.
     
  9. justAfsfan

    justAfsfan Member

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    I'm also one of the few, she just not expressive in the way people expect but I think she interpret her LP music really well. However I wish she skate faster, I would make her LP to be wonderful.
     
  10. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    deleted
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  11. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Miki is pretty fast live. On screen, she seems slow, but really she isn't. Of course she doesn't have the speed of Yuna, but she is certainly faster than Alissa and Rachael, and about the same speed as Mao (although recently I've heard a lot of reports that Mao skates "slow" too, although again I think that is just in comparison to Yuna).
     
  12. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Errr, Miki not doing the beillmann has nothing to do with her flexibility. She pulled her shoulder out of socket during that spin at 2006-07 Japanese Nationals and now does not want to risk dislocating it again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  13. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    I really like Miki's programs this year. Hope she skates them clean at Worlds and can win a medal for Japan.
     
  14. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Miki will ever try the quad sal again.
    I don't really like her programs. But that is mainly because I don't like the music she picks. However, if you look at the individual elements, I like her.
     
  15. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea Well-Known Member

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    Reference:
    Miki Ando in FS of 2006 Japan Nationals in December, 2006 on YouTube
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGhb8Cxa6pg

    03:00
    Falling in the triple Flip-double Loop, the dislocation of her right shoulder became obvious for the first time.
    03:19
    Unable to bear the pang of right shoulder, she was about to stop the acting on the way of Combination Spin, but, being encouraged by Morozov coach, saying "Go on!", she continued the acting again.
    04:30
    In the CCoSp, this is the Biellmann Spin of Miki Ando which was the last we saw.

    The Judges Details of the FS in Japan Nationals in December, 2006 (The result of Miki Ando is the 3rd place)
    http://www.skatingjapan.jp/National/2006-2007/Figure/national/J/data0205.pdf


    Mki Ando who was healthy.
    Miki Ando in FS of 2006 Skate America in October, 2006 on YouTube
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grYoQfnCHHc

    The Judges Details of FS in Skate America in October, 2006 (The result of Miki Ando is the 1st place)
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpusa06/sa06_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
     
  16. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea Well-Known Member

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    I, too, look forward to the day we can watch her quad Salchow again.
    I hope that the too severe rule of ISU until now had not become her second nature as a disincentive to attempt the quad Salchow.

    She is the only quad jumper in Ladies so far.
    At 2002, she jumped the quad Salchow for the first time in the ISU official competition of Ladies.
    She attempted to jump the quad Salchow even in 2008 GP Final and her result was authorized as the quad Salchow of lack of rotation, but nobody has been able to jump even the quad Salchow of lack of rotation except her so far.
    She is a very world cultural heritage. (lol)

    Reference:
    Miki Ando in FS of 2008 GP Final in December, 2008
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FHyrC1fjys

    00:54
    Her first jump was the quadruple Salchow although it was judged as the lack of rotation. Without tumbling or even a few confusion, she took off and landed the Salchow with fine flow.
    She jumped the quad Salchow so easily that even Midori Ito carelessly mistook it for the triple Salchow, in the comment of TV in Japan.

    06:13
    re-play

    The Judges Details in FS of 2008 GP Final (The result of Miki Ando is the 5th place) in December, 2008
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf0809/gpf0809_SeniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  17. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Hard to fault Ando's element GOEs. She doesn't have the best positions but she has great speed and control on her spins and spirals (and maintains the speed).

    I do find her jump GOEs confusing because she takes a long time to set up her jumps and doesn't exhibit great control over her air position or landing. (look at Yuna's jump set ups and landings during her Olympic free skate and those only got +2s) Given the good speed going into the jumps and the good height, I would have given her jumps +1 tops.
     
  18. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    I think the only jump kindda telegraph is her Lutz jump, but still its no where near long telegraph of Kostner. But Miki has a ture Lutz and her jump cover huge ice distance too and height and I think it deserve more than +1GOE.

    The problem is judges can only give 1, 2 or 0. If they can give GOE in therm of 0.5, 1, 1.5 and 2, it will make more sense now that the new rule eliminated +3.
     
  19. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    if we're talking about height, ice coverage and distance of jumps then I guess Yuna's lutz jump should get more than 2 points lol
    (NYT even featured the qualities of her jump at the olympic season)

    And the new rule eliminated goe 3? I saw some of them in the protocols this season.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
  20. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    I'm really not a fan of her skating, but it's hard to not love her endearing personality. What a sweet girl she is! :encore:
     
  21. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    What is a telegraphed jump?
     
  22. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

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    When a skater skates straight across the ice simply setting up for a jump and not doing much else, Slutskaya did it a lot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKQRXNj772s
     
  23. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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  24. Lainerb

    Lainerb New Member

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    Miki actually has steps into her 2nd 3lutz and has since last season. The only jumping passes that are entered from direct cross overs this season are the 3lutz+2loop, 2axel+3toe and 3toe. Most of her jumps also have some sort of linking steps after the landing so that counts towards the GOE as well.
     
  25. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Surya Bonaly gets my vote for worst telegrapher ever:

    Surya Bonaly 1994 Olympic LP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HlTU1MwVRU

    One of my first memories of her skate is Scott Hamilton pointing out how she stopped, braked, then when into the jump. Blech.

    Surya Bonaly 1998 Olympic LP - still telegraphing 4 years later but impressive skate after coming back from an achilles injury:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC7yJ4jez68&feature=related

    And Scott's still saying 'you'll be able to see a jump coming, and the judges DON'T like that!'.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  26. RussianDream

    RussianDream New Member

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    What are you talking about... Yuna has very high level layback. Yuna may not have the best free leg position but her "layback" position is amazing...
    You NEED TO compare the arch between Yuna kim Miki... BIG DIFFERENCE.. IMAO
     
  27. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    Miki has a pretty decent layback when she was younger, n before her shoulder injury. Yuna hasn't done any layback since hip injury...these days everyone seem to be doing flying camel ....only Cizney, Mirai and Mao are exception
     
  28. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

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    Mao hasn't done a layback in her LP for a while either. Most people have stopped after the amount of spins required went down, since the base value is so much lower and only those with good GOE on it will do it.
     
  29. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I don't have issues with Yuna's layback but Dick Button trashes Yuna's layback position every chance he gets so clearly it's not that great.

    And Miki actually used to have a pretty good classic layback position, but then she was injured and it hasn't come back. When she used to include the biellman, the position was pretty ugly anyway, so I think it's smart she doesn't include it now, especially if it bothers her back/shoulder. I really don't find biellman's appealing unless you get great stretch in it like Mirai, Alissa, Mao, Min-Jung, etc do. Yuna's biellman position is not particularly stretched and I realize she does it to get the level 4 but it's not the most asthetically pleasing, especially in comparison to her other spins which are lovely. I think skaters who grab the blade with both hands tend to get better stretch than those who just grab it with one hand and wrap the other hand around the wrist. I've noticed Yuna, Christina, Kanako, and even Adelina all do the biellman grabbing the blade with only one hand, and the stretch/position is not as great as those who grab the blade with both hands - Alissa, Mirai, Min-Jung.
     
  30. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    Do you mean the cross-beillman position? I loved Mao's. Wish she would bring it back. Kanako's okay too.