Mervin Tran and Natasha Purich to skate together

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by danafan, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. jdonavan

    jdonavan Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2006
    Messages:
    193

    Good points here-
  2. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,539
    I think the whole idea of a "release" doesn't even come from the ISU Rules; it comes from the Olympic Charter:

    http://www.olympic.org/Documents/olympic_charter_en.pdf

    Tran has never been a national of Japan. I surmise that he doesn't need a release to skate for Canada.
  3. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,397
    I don't think that's true, though. Volosozhar needed to be released by the Ukrainian Fed before she could compete internationally for Russia at the one-year mark of her last competition for Ukraine (the Vancouver Olympics). She received Russian citizenship quickly, because she was if Russian ancestry.

    The Olympics rule was to keep athletes from country hopping, and was more of a concern in Summer Olympics sports, although not unknown in winter sports.
  4. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2002
    Messages:
    3,968
    Good to hear that Mervin found a new partner. It would have been a shame to lose him as a pair skater.

    It wasn't the Japanese Federation who "fired" him, it was Narumi. She decided to end the partnership, as Mervin said in the French article and other interviews/articles. The Japanese Federation always supported him (as he also confirmed) and according to my sources tried to keep the pair together. They were also supporting Mervin in his quest for citizenship.
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    It's the ISU rules. You can't start representing another country unless your current federation agrees.
  6. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,539
    Has she ever said publicly what her thinking process was? Was it entirely her idea, or did her Federation try tempt or pressure her?

    Volosozhar needed to be released because she was a Ukrainian citizen when she skated for Ukraine. Tran has never held Japanese citizenship. So what was required for her under the Olympic Charter wouldn't necessarily be required for her, and, as far I can tell, it isn't. And as for the ISU Rules....

    Not exactly. You can alsp get permission from the ISU Council if your original federation refuses to grant the release:

    Rule 109(2) says:

    http://www5.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-206227-223450-177140-0-file,00.pdf

    I think that if the matter had to come to a vote, Tran would get that release. And that's why it's hard to imagine the Japanese Federation forcing a vote by denying a release.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  7. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,864
    If you are a citizen of the country you wish to represent, your current federation really can't prevent you. A request to the ISU Council can overrule the objection.

    If you are not a citizen of the new country, then you are out of luck if your current federation says no. USFS allowed Piper Gilles to skate for Canada after a specified period of time. Piper at that time was not a Canadian citizen.
  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,147
    When Piper Gilles asked for her release she had already sat out one full season without competing in 2010-11. USFS agreed to release her after one season (2011-12).

    I'm sure we'll hear soon enough if Purich/Tran are eligible to compete internationally, if ready, in the fall of 2013.
  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,397
    She had to wait to the beginning of a season, when her last event was part way through the season before she sat out. USFS could have released her immediately after 1.x seasons, but chose to hold her back for just the period where an exception could have been granted by the ISU. Even a two-year (total) hold would have made G/P eligible for late-season internationals and ranking points. The stall seems to have worked.
  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    There is a provision in the rules to force a release through a ISU Council vote, yes. But I can't remember it ever being invoked.
  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,147
  12. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,539
    Probably because it has never needed to be invoked.

    In Morgan Matthews' case, for example, the Canadian Federation probably realized it wouldn't get the votes (since she wasn't a Canadian citizen) and so it didn't force the issue. In Mervin Tran's case, if the release is really necessary for some reason, the Japanese Federation probably realizes that the Canadian Federation can get the votes, since he is a Canadian citizen and, in fact, has never held Japanese citizenship. And the Japanese Federation has shown in the past that it likes saving face, so it is very likely not to force a vote it will lose.
  13. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,397
    Matthews didn't need to be a Canadian citizen to get an exception: she could have been granted Permanent Residency. However, they refused to release her partner, so they wouldn't have had a leg to stand on. Piper Gilles may still not be a Canadian citizen, but USFS held on to her enough but not too long to make it not worth anyone's while.

    It isn't clear whether the Japanese Federation will try to keep Tran out for another season by doing the same.
  14. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,864
    Mervin Train was not a Japanese citizen, and IS a Canadian citizen. I don't think the Japanese federation will try to stop him skating for his own country.
  15. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2001
    Messages:
    4,920
    Thanks for posting! Wonderful to hear that the team clicked so quickly and that Tran thinks he can have even more success with Natasha.

    Given that Tran mentions going for the third spot at the Olympics, he seems to think that a release from Japan won't be an issue. It's possible that he's even had discussions with them, so I'm taking that as a good sign.
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,147
    Tweeted by Mervin Tran today :):
    "I wonder what are the chances of JSF inviting @tash_purich and I to NHK; would love to perform for the Japanese fans again."
  17. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,648
    Why hasn't Piper gotten Canadian citizenship yet? Isn't she an Olympic hopeful?
  18. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,397
    We don't know that she hasn't. Once her mother gets/got citizenship through her mother (Gilles' maternal grandmother), Gilles would be eligible for citizenship. Weaver, who didn't qualify through her family but went through the Permanent Resident route, needed her citizenship to be expedited to compete at the Olympics. (She was already on the legal path to citizenship.)
  19. rvi5

    rvi5 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    530
    I doubt she has her Canadian citizenship yet. If she recently tweeted about getting into Ryerson, I think she would have tweeted about having obtained her citizenship. Judging by other tweets, she may likely be actively pursuing that goal.
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  20. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    6,995
    I'm not sure it works that way. I was born in another Commonwealth country. I can get my kids citizenship in that country provided I do it before they turn 19. My kids, however, cannot expedite citizenship in that country for their kids. That privilege is only granted to the person actually born there. I don't actually know how it works in Canada, but if it is a similar situation, then Piper's mother may be able to get expedited citizenship through her mother who was born here, but that may not speed up Piper's citizenship process.

    That said, I'm sure SC could pull some strings if needed.
  21. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,397
    Children who have at least one Canadian parent are citizens of Canada. There is some paperwork to file, but citizenship is inherited.

    In Canada for a class of people who had to relinquish citizenship because it was not possible to have dual citizenship, there is a provision to reclaim that citizenship. Gilles' maternal grandmother relinquished Canadian citizenship during the defined period in order to become a US citizen.

    Once citizenship is granted to Gilles' mother, Gilles can become a Canadian citizen through her mother. It takes a while for all the processing to occur -- the last time I looked normal processing for Canadian citizenship was 19 months; I don't know if this is on a separate path.

    Because Gilles and Poirier train in Canada, Gilles also would be eligible to apply for Permanent Residency under the entrepreneurial class under the self-employed category for world-class athletes and take the same course towards citizenship that Weaver did, but that would take years without being expedited like Weaver's was. Since she is/will be eligible for citizenship through her mother, once her mother's is granted, that was the most direct route, since it skips the permanent residency part, which takes at least a year to process, and she may not have to have three physical years of residency before she can apply for Canadian citizenship.

    ETA: At least that was the plan when there was a newspaper article published about it.
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
    mag and (deleted member) like this.