Meissner Question (no not that one)

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maximillian, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. Maximillian

    Maximillian You can't unfry things.

    3,012
    2,039
    113
    Just have to say that I find Kimmie's decline to be one of the most puzzling I've seen in figure skating history. From winning Skate America in the Fall of 07, to one month later (or less? can't remember) never managing to make it on an international or national podium again. Her performance level plummeted in about the span of a month and she was never able to regain her form. It all happened so quickly. I know the common explanation was her body changing, but she was already 18 years old, shouldn't her body have gone through all of the significant changes by that age? Also usually signifcant drops in performance level etc. happen in the off season not in mid-season.

    Any thoughts? It just strikes me as an incredibly peculiar scenario.
     
  2. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

    10,695
    363
    83
    Puberty monster happened. I think it's just hard for most female skaters to do triple jumps baseline, so if you don't have perfect technique or the ideal body type, it just makes things that much harder. Also, once your results start to go downhill, I imagine it must be hard to stay motivated to keep going, especially when one has achieved so much at a young age like Kimmie has.
     
  3. Maximillian

    Maximillian You can't unfry things.

    3,012
    2,039
    113
    Did the puberty monster happen in a month? Also, she was 18 years old and going through puberty? These are the things that don't make sense to me.
     
  4. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

    9,012
    671
    113
    It wasn't just puberty. It was also probably the burden of living up to enormous expectations at a time when U.S. Figure Skating began looking for the next Michelle Kwan. Kimmie gave a once-in-a-lifetime performance at Worlds in 2006, and I can't imagine the pressure of being expected to skate like that each time out.

    I also question Pam Gregory's coaching style and technique. I don't think she was successful in adjusting Kimmie's jump technique once her body did start changing. Things seemed promising when Kimmie went to Callaghan after 2008 Nationals, but by then the injuries started to pile up.
     
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  5. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    12,551
    1,335
    113
    Plus, Kimmie had underrotation issues. With the new CoP, it was more harsh about downgrading jumps, it didn't help her.
     
  6. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

    2,053
    153
    63
    Exactly. Kimmie gave her best performance at the most ideal time, but even if that program were to be skated today, she'd have lost a bunch of points to UR and downgrade calls. I thought her technique when she was younger was really quite strong, but as she grew and got injured, it didn't hold up.

    She may have been a flash in the pan, but she did in one trip to Worlds what many skaters never do, and what no American lady has done since.
     
  7. Melissa

    Melissa Member

    140
    7
    18
    I think a lot of it had to do with personal problems. I don't remember the interview but I remember Kimmie choking back tears while talking about her new coaches. It seems like her coaching relationship with Pam Gregory completely fell apart and obviously thats not easy. I think once her scores got worse, she just kept loosing faith in herself and in skating and it all was just a domino effect.
     
  8. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

    1,261
    95
    0
    I think it's just because she wasn't expected to win worlds in the 1st place.
     
  9. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    7,142
    619
    113
    A combination of 1) following in the footsteps of Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen to be the next greatest thing for US ladies; 2) living up to the challenge of reproducing her performance of a lifetime at '06 Worlds; 3) her own ur issues at a time when the judging on ur generally became harsher; 4) injuries, and 5) Whatever occurred between her and Pamela Gregory.

    Also, Kimmie never struck me as someone with a killer instinct for competition. It seemed to crush her more than inspire her. I remember reading that Todd Eldredge spoke about this when she moved to Callaghan - he wished she would get angry and 'fight' more in her skating.
     
  10. Debbie S

    Debbie S Well-Known Member

    6,439
    874
    113
    Hmmm, I think Kimmie is a very tough, determined competitor. Anyone going through what she went through would get discouraged - that is likely what Todd was alluding to. But she never would have gotten as far as she did in her career if she didn't have a competitive mindset. After missing qualifying for JN in Intermediate in 2002, she won the Novice Ladies title the next year, then the Junior Ladies title, qualified for the World team (although she was too young to represent) her first year in Seniors, and the next year made the Oly team and won Worlds. Remember, the Olys was her first major Senior int'l comp, and a very high-pressure one at that, and she finished 6th - pretty impressive, I think.

    The injuries she had could have been career-ending for many, but she worked her way back through PT and reworking her technique. At this point, she wants to focus on school - nothing wrong with that.
     
  11. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

    10,695
    363
    83
    Kimmie's results went downhill gradually after she won Worlds in 06. That wasn't one month it was a few years, and during those few years her body changed a lot. Most figure skaters have delayed puberty so experiencing dramatic body changes at age 17/18 is not uncommon. She also had UR issues, which judges were not very strict about in 06 when she won Worlds but then became very strict about in following years. Also, her UR issues got worse as her body changed. And then she had injuries so she couldn't work on fixing her UR issues because she was off the ice for awhile. And then she switched coaches and it always takes awhile to get adjusted to a new coaching relationship. On top of that she was living far from home for the first time, which is also hard. She was trying to juggle college with skating too, IIRC. Basically a lot of different things happened to her all at once and it was too much to overcome.
     
  12. Maximillian

    Maximillian You can't unfry things.

    3,012
    2,039
    113
    This makes sense, when I alluded to the month I was talking about how she won Skate America and then bombed the rest of her season and bombed badly. She had multiple falls at her next Grand Prix and the bit it at the final. She then wound up 7th at Nationals, which was a huge drop from the year before. But I do agree that her decline had already begun as early as '05-'06 when she was no longer attempting the 3A.
     
  13. Debbie S

    Debbie S Well-Known Member

    6,439
    874
    113
    Kimmie fell once and popped another jump at SA - she wasn't perfect, but she was good enough to win. At the GPF, she had an ankle injury.

    She likely stopped attempting the 3A b/c IJS was officially adopted and the penalty for a missed or cheated jump in the FS was much more severe.
     
  14. Maximillian

    Maximillian You can't unfry things.

    3,012
    2,039
    113
    Didn't realize that she had an injury. Too bad, that GPF really seemed to shake her confidence for good.
     
  15. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

    2,351
    484
    83
    It happened to Scott Davis and Tim Goebel also. One year they were at the top of their game and then suddenly it was all over. Various explanations were given (vertigo, injury, boot problems etc.) but they were never able to medal again. Scott lost his 3A and fabulous spins, and Tim lost his quads (and 3A?). Both of them were ultimately dropped by their coaches.
     
  16. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    2,103
    135
    63
    Kimmie also had some bad technique on her jumps. That combined with the pressure of competing led to her downfall.
     
  17. Indra486

    Indra486 Well-Known Member

    1,650
    113
    63
    Her growth spurt highlighted her strange take-off technique where she would muscle up using her upperbody. While it was mentioned earlier, I don't think college was a distraction because she was doing only part-time and most of her classes were online.

    True, especially since she placed 2nd in SA, with a f*ck you, when a Japanese reporter told her to give up after placing fourth in the short because she had no chance of beating Mao.
     
  18. DreamSkates

    DreamSkates Active Member

    855
    93
    28
    I just watched her skate in Boitano's show, thought she was lovely, lyrical, and enjoyed watching her.
     
  19. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

    1,311
    132
    63
    Her results actually went up in the following season (06-07)... She improved her Grand Prix results, she improved her Nationals result, and she won Four Continents. Her only result that dropped that season was Worlds, where she placed a respectable 4th. The next season (07-08), her Grand Prix results improved even further. Granted, she was unable to match her performance from '06 Worlds, but how many people could? It's not realistic. The most important thing was that she was skating well enough to get strong results.

    Shortly after that, she was injured almost constantly. The judges started really cracking down on underrotations and lipping, two of Kimmie's major technical issues. Her technique wasn't good enough to keep those UR 3-3s in her arsenal when she grew. It didn't make sense to even attempt the 3-3s because they would have resulted in downgrades. And then when she did manage to skate well ('08 CoR SP), she still got called for underrotating. Her spinning ability was also not very CoP friendly. Basically, she had too many technical problems and too many injuries.
     
  20. FSWer

    FSWer Well-Known Member

    2,587
    42
    48
    Say,is the girl ever going to recover? When will we start seeing her regularly on Ice again?
     
  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

    32,581
    4,980
    113
  22. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

    9,921
    1,677
    113
    Wasn't it also the fall of 2007 that she had mono, which she didn't know at the time and only learned about later? Or was that the following fall?
     
  23. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

    3,967
    156
    63
    Yeah. That.

    Two things contributed to her demise:

    1) Too much came too soon.

    2) Injuries plagued her for the past two years.

    In fact, (2) is enough to end just about ANYONE's career. But on top of that, you had (1) with the increasing expectations...and she appeared to be adjusting just fine when she filled out in 2007. Fastest decline I've ever seen since Sokolova.
     
  24. Screenie

    Screenie Active Member

    908
    78
    28
    I still think it's unfortunate that she couldn't compete in 2010 / fall 2009 - she was injured during regionals (sprained ankle?), and b/c medical byes are no longer allowed, couldn't do sectionals or nationals. I think she was likely pulling it together and can't imagine how horrible it would be to not even be able to compete in an Olympic year.

    (ETA: she was 7th in 2008 nationals and withdrew before the 2009 nats due to injury)
     
  25. Debbie S

    Debbie S Well-Known Member

    6,439
    874
    113
    Actually, Kimmie was injured before Regionals - she had to w/d from her GP events (and unable to do Regionals/Sectionals) and since her bye to Nats was contingent on her competing in the GP, that was the end of her season. :(
     
  26. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

    1,854
    370
    83
    Its weird how her career is seemed as somewhat as a failure even though really her career as a senior was about as long as Tara's and the only thing she did not achieve that Tara did was the OGM. I understand a BIG difference was that Tara was one of the two top skaters in the world during 1997 and 1998 (Kimmie of course was never considered top two) but they both have 1 national title, a silver and bronze at nationals, 1 world title (which happens to be their only world medal), and they are both Olympians and of course Tara is the Olympic champion and Kimmie is not. I don't know why I thought of this but I just did LOL.
     
  27. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

    17,439
    1,304
    113
    When I first read this thread title, I was racking my brain trying to remember another skater named Meissner. :lol:
     
    Maximillian and (deleted member) like this.
  28. Maximillian

    Maximillian You can't unfry things.

    3,012
    2,039
    113
    Haha! I meant "no not that one" in relation to what I thought was the more commonly asked question about her, that is, "Will she be competing this season?" But I love your reaction!
     
  29. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    1,671
    126
    63
    Good point.
     
  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

    32,581
    4,980
    113
    I think figure skating is about taking advantage of the opportunities you're given and, for some skaters like Meissner, the window of opportunity just turned out to be smaller/briefer than expected.