Matt Savoie- why was he so underrated

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Andofanatic, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ In your opinion, nylynnr, and you're welcome to hold whatever opinion, and to express whatever metaphor, and as well to ride or not ride yourself. ;)

    Indeed though, I absolutely love to ride real four-legged horses. Animals, unlike people, can be the most wonderful and loyal companions. They don't judge.

    Me, as well as most of us here, a few posters excepted, just can't seem to quit.
     
  2. taf2002

    taf2002 flower lady

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    Yes, it's very subjective. So what YOU find pleasing or podium-worthy others might not. Does that make you right & them wrong? Only if you're so egocentric that you believe your opinion is always right. You stated your case - no one needs to read it over & over.

    FTR, I adored Matt's skating. I've seen him in person & he gave me chills. Besides that, he's a really nice guy & has a lot going for him other than skating. I find it hard to understand why judges valued what skaters like Jeff Buttle did & didn't value Matt as much - I thought he was much better. His transitions into jumps were probably the most difficult in the field. But I think that at a certain point the judges kind of gave up on him because of his years of inconsistancies. I thought he should have been sent to the Olys in 2002 (that's just me) but he really didn't accomplish clean programs until the 2004-2005 season.
     
  3. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Far be it from me taf2002, to force you to read any of my posts over and over, much less agree with anything I perceive or have to say.

    Right and wrong is in the mind and eye of the beholder ... I don't ever claim to know what's right or wrong -- that's a whole 'nother can of worms, or bag of nuts. Indeed, I only express how I feel.
     
  4. PrincessLeppard

    PrincessLeppard Pink Bitch

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    I love Matt. I screamed at my TV when he wasn't sent to the 2002 Olympics. My favorite SP of all time was done by Matt.

    But that sort of over the top gushing is just.....

    Weird.
     
  5. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Matt Savoie is one of many skaters who were unlucky in that their talents and skill set were not suited to the judging system during the time in which they competed; if he'd been a few years younger, he'd probably have done much better. He's not unique in this - there are skaters now who would have done better under 6.0, skaters of the past who never had a chance because of figures, 6.0 skaters who would have flourished under the IJS, and so on.

    That is one of the classic blunders, or at least it should be: an opinion is not a fact and cannot be proven or disproven.
     
    gkelly and (deleted member) like this.
  6. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Aha, PrincessLeppard, one person's weird is another person's nutty conspiracies. But, oh well, none of that has anything at all to do with Matt Savoie.

    When I first saw this thread title, like Sylvia I recalled that much of this territory has already been tread in the Matt Savoie tribute thread. Lots of threads and retreads, not to mention gushing, judgments and nutty claims of conspiracy theories on FSU. ;) In any case, I didn't plan to post in this thread about my love for Matt's skating, but I suppose the best laid intentions get mislaid in the off-season. :lol:


    Oh well, Zemgirl, fact or opinion, nutty blunder, whatever. Matt Savoie was for some of the reasons others have eloquently expressed under-appreciated during his competitive career.
     
  7. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    I can't help but smile at the irony that one of the most low-key, understated, introverted personality in figure skating can become such a polarizing figure. Perhaps it's just the off-season. :D

    In most of his career, Savoie lacked a certain kind of flair on and off the ice to draw the crowd. His programs are frequently a little too intellectual and too abstract to have broad appeal, and his lack of connection with the audience in general hurt the conventional standard for "presentation." The last season, 2005-06, was distinctive precisely because he connected more with the audience. Still, the nature of his personality and the style of his programs are such that he would never have a broad appeal.

    He competed in an era when consistently landing the most difficult jumps was highly valued. His technical consistency was hampered by the large number of transitions in his program content. If he had reduced the transitions, he might have been more consistent in the jumps and be viewed more favorably. But he didn't. It was his choice. He didn't seem to have any regrets. So I have none for him.
     
  8. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Whether his skating "projected" enough to suit the judges, or some posters; it was still a privilege to watch his programs, and follow his career.
     
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it's Matt Savoie or his skating that anyone finds polarizing. Methinks my mention of Patrick Chan in this thread in any context, as well as perhaps my "gushing" over Matt has raised a few hackles of some sitting astride their own high horses. :p


    Thanks, JunY. I respect your thoughtful viewpoints, and I agree with much of what you've said about Matt and his career. However, I differ somewhat in that I think he had his own kind of elegant albeit introspective flair. I also think that he did give some very wonderful and crowd-pleasing performances, so I think his appeal was larger than you suggest. But sure, he didn't have an out-sized personality that yelled, "Look at me, aren't I great!" In the tribute thread there are links to interesting articles about Matt and his relationship with his coaching team, and their efforts to help him overcome his shyness, self-doubt and rigid points of view about what he could and could not do on the ice. I really don't feel that his love of transitions necessarily was the factor that presented any great difficulty for him during competitions. According to Tom Dickson, Matt loved incorporating and performing unique transitions in his programs. Like many skaters, Matt apparently struggled with overcoming performance anxiety. It's never easy to consistently perform difficult technique perfectly. As has been said before, figure skating is not for sissies. It's an extremely difficult sport mentally and physically. That's why the consistency of Michelle Kwan throughout her career is so astounding and uncommon.

    Re Matt Savoie's career, IMHO, it was probably more that as usual, the U.S. men's field was loaded with talent and Matt was just unlucky perhaps in missing out on being the hot skater that USFS preferred to heavily back politically. (He in fact may feel lucky in some ways that he was not considered the "hot skater" by USFS. Certainly, Matt was always described as "a skater's skater," so apparently his peers always held him in high esteem.) Also, I read that Matt did not follow suggestions to ditch his long time coach and train with well-established coaches in more high profile locations such as Colorado Springs or California. I admire Matt for staying loyal to his coach and still finding a way to ultimately overcome his shyness and to achieve his goals without being considered the star U.S. skater. His confidence and consistency did improve as he accepted the advice of Tom Dickson and Kathy Johnson re believing in his talent and allowing himself to release his shyness in performance and express a different character/ aspect of himself through the music.

    I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong. It's just my take, and so many different factors and levels of perception are involved in any case.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  10. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

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    Matt and Ryan Jahnke...interesting US males to watch.
     
  11. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    I think it likely has to do with him never having won a major title and also because he was an internal, quiet guy who didn't bring a lot of attention to himself. I appreciate the fact that he wasn't a media whore. It's REALLY hard to believe that as a senior skater, Matt never won a gold or silver medal in any competition nationally or internationally. He was SO MUCH BETTER than he was ever given credit for! Reputation has such a heavy influence on judges though. :shuffle: Regardless, I would prefer to watch a Matt Savoie, a Jeremy Abbott, or a Ryan Jahnke ANY DAY of the week over a Evan Lysacek, Johnny Weir, or Evgeny Plushenko. JMO.
     
  12. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    :respec:
     
  13. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4nAEsXi2Eo Matt S 2006 Exhibition to Summertime with lyrics -- superb interpretation of the music, my Gosh -- gush, gush!! :saint:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbzfIXTm0Mw Ryan J 2004 US Nats FS (one of Tom Dickson's best-loved programs he choreographed!)

    Young Ryan J @ 1998 Nationals FS
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5L5t-BEYoM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TngyPQyw6k4 Ryan J 2004 SC fs :swoon: Such gorgeous skating to classical music -- Wow, that whole last section from 3:20 to 5:12 is so wonderful ... especially the spread eagle into tano 3lutz, and then moving into 3flip prior to fabulous footwork section. :) I wonder who choreographed this program? Another by Tom Dickson?

    Ryan J 2012 exhibition skate (a beautiful expression of Ryan's passionate spirit and caring heart)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BOyk6lktC0


    Patrick C and Ryan J duel -- :) Wish the lighting was better, but fun, fun anyways.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OdszQcFUE0