Mark Ladwig has paired up with Lindsay Davis in Florida

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 4, 2012.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  2. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    Best of luck to them - I can't remember seeing Davis when she was with Themi. Thoughts?
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    There was some initial discussion about Davis/Ladwig in the US Pairs thread when the news first trickled out late last month: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3556983#post3556983

    They seem like they could be physically well-matched, and I'll be interested to see how they develop together alongside the other senior pairs in Ellenton, FL (Zhang/Bartholomay, Kayne/O'Shea, Kemp/King).
  4. Garden Kitty

    Garden Kitty Tranquillo

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    I wish them all the best, and I love Mark's classy comments re Amanda.
  5. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Mark is already 32 and she's only 20. His prospects don't look promising beyond Sochi while she could be searching for someone with whom she has a potential future for at least 1 more olympic cycle.. Oh well, I'ts her decision and good luck to both.
  6. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    even if he's just a transition partner for her, going from having no partner to one with plenty of international experience will probably/hopefully give her good experience and maybe a leg up for next time she is looking for a partner.
  7. LongTimeLurker

    LongTimeLurker New Member

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    When did Lindsay and Themi end their partnership? Is Themi still skating? Looks-wise, I was hoping he would partner with Caitlin Y. :smokin: (even though I don't know how tall either one is).
  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    From the article:

    "For Davis, who sat out the 2011-12 season after former partner Themi Leftheris retired late last summer, ..."

    There was hearsay info that Leftheris had contacted Caitlin Yankowskas after his split with Davis (right before the 2011-12 qualifying season entry deadline, IIRC), but nothing came of it, obviously.

    ETA that this was posted back in February 2012 in the US Pairs thread:
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  9. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    Exactly!
  10. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    At this point, it appears to be "a leg up" for both Lindsay and Mark. I wish them success, and I look forward to seeing them in the new season.

    I too applaud Mark for his giving tribute to Amanda in the linked article. I have fond memories of Evora/ Ladwig, and I hope Amanda feels good and at peace with what she accomplished in skating and happy moving forward to achieve other goals beyond skating.

    Are there any pics of Lindsay or vids of her skating?

    I hope Themi and Naomi Nari Nam are also doing well these days. It's great that so many skaters are finding opportunities aboard cruise ships. I once saw an excellent show (with a Hans Christian Andersen theme) aboard the Oasis of the Seas Royal Caribbean cruise ship (Michelle Kwan is one of the godmothers of that ship).
  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Here's a (club?) competition warm-up video (uploaded Sept. 2011) in which Lindsay Davis and Themi Leftheris land side-by-side triple loops in unison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODC-4wEIktg

    There are several D&L videos on youtube (including from Indy Challenge), searchable under Davis & Leftheris.
  12. carriemarie

    carriemarie New Member

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    Not sure how Lindsay is a leg up for Mark.

    Amanda was (Please don't go through the exhaustive jump issues) the best overall female pair skater in the US. Lindsay has HUGE skates to fill.

    This to me is a final gasp of air from Ladwig and will end up being a resume builder for Lindsay.
  13. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I meant no disrespect to Amanda in any way. I mean "leg up" for Mark in the sense that he was without a partner and still wanted to skate. Well, he now has a partner (albeit, he's starting over with a new partner and all that entails), so he's at the least "a leg up" from where he was when he became partnerless.

    I don't recall ever seeing Lindsay Davis skate, so I'm not comparing her with Amanda. What Mark and Amanda achieved together will never be forgotten, and it was fitting and classy of Mark to acknowledge that in the article announcing his new partnership.
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  14. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Well, IMO, the jumps issue should be considered if you are trying to rank skaters. I would say that Amanda has polish, extension and could be considered the best ... if you don't consider SBS jumps. Lindsay could bring the potential for higher points to the team due to being a better jumper. Just the way CoP works.

    Zhao was 36 years old while winning gold in Vancouver. Mark might have a few years left. Let's see what happens ...

    ETA - I read Sylvia's article. It looks like they already are doing the double twist quite easily, and their throw technique is surprisingly similar. Looks promising.
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
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  15. apatinar

    apatinar New Member

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    I really hope that this is not the case of another skater not having a transition plan after skating... At 32 - husband and father I guess he knows what he is doing financially to support his family...
  16. crzesk8dad

    crzesk8dad Active Member

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    Mark is a terrific guy, a real down to earth person, someone who, I hope, will continue to be associated with skating, long after he stops competing. But, he must feel that he has more competing to do. Sochi is two years away.

    Lindsay is a great young lady. She comes from a good family. I have known her since she was a little pixie on the ice. She has great technical skills as well as excellent ice presence.

    They will do will together and I wish them all the best in their new partnership.
  17. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

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    This is great news for Mark. I am not familiar with Lindsay but from reading this thread and from the article she sounds like a terrific choice and also a talented young lady.

    I wish them both the best of luck next season.
  18. apatinar

    apatinar New Member

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    I just don't see how he hopes to make it to Sochi with Yankowskas coming back, Marley/Brubaker & Denney/Coughlin... I mean, no one would have thought Evora/Ladwig had a real shot at making the Olympic team, but I think all the stars aligned just right for them and they had already been together for quite some time already.. I don't think that stars can align 2 Olympic seasons in a row..but if Mark knows what he is doing ,wants to continue competing and can financially support his family in his 30s then more power to him..
  19. 5Ali3

    5Ali3 Active Member

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    At the end of the article, Ladwig says, "We have to find that new balance between the things that make Lindsay comfortable competing, and then the way I'm used to competing." I can't recall having seen articles about new pairs discuss this, but its importance can't be overestimated.

    In general, some skaters slow down in competition, some speed up their timing; some get tense, some get crazy, some start singing off-key and loudly; some need to do every.element on the 20m warmups, some think it's harmful to do every element, some like to just get their knees moving, etc. While some of these may sound easy to compromise, it can be tricky when one person's confidence is based on executing every element during the 20m warmup and the other person's confidence is based on a low-key warmup. It's easier to deal with a partner's personalty changes if one knows in advance, but it can still be disconcerting when a normally steady person starts snapping or becomes goofy loosey-goosey. And the tendency to speed up/slow down timing is very, very difficult to deal with - and the only way to rehearse it is to compete, compete, compete: that pressure can't be truly replicated outside of major competitive situations with something at stake. For new pairs, that's essentially Indy, Sectionals, and Nationals.

    Ladwig has a good head on his shoulders and the fact that he is sufficiently aware of the difficulty in meshing the behaviors/cognitions/attitudes that make skaters comfortable in competition suggests that he and Davis might be able to compensate well for this phenomenon, but more than that, his meta-analysis says a great deal about Ladwig himself. He has long been a valuable contributor to various USFSA committees and Governing Council, with well-articulated and insightful thoughts, and I certainly hope that he remains involved as his life eventually moves away from the competitive arena.
  20. carriemarie

    carriemarie New Member

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    Zhao also won his first World title at 27 - to compare him to Mark is almost humorous.

    Yes in Amanda's case jumps do matter, but they aren't everything. Pair skaters obviously achieve the majority of points from Pair elements, just ask Takahashi/Tran. Amanda was a big part of the huge TES score that the team received regardless of jumping skills. Throughout their career, Amanda and Mark seemed very consistent in their levels and also received generally high GOE scores. IMO I don't see this happening with Lindsay in 2 years.

    I support all new teams that are focused on longevity and helping the US pair program flourish. I think the top two US teams are building momentum and will be crawling up the ladder in the next two seasons. Best of luck to all of them!
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  21. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Given Mark's resume he'll be able to easily both work in shows and coach after he retires.
  22. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking strictly about comparing age, and the abilities of the body at a certain age to accomplish things. I wasn't comparing their skating histories which as you say, would be humorous.

    But, if Lindsay can do SBS jumps AND develop that polish that Amanda had, she will be in terrific shape going forward. We will see. It's not a given that it won't happen.

    -------------

    ETA - I just watched the the 2010 Indy Challenge LP again from D/L. Lindsay isn't a slouch in the lifts (although she has a way to go to compare to Amanda) and she can jump. I think more and more the potential is there.
  23. HeatherC

    HeatherC Go Team SW Florida! =)

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    I'm so encouraged to see that both Mark and Amanda are finding peace with their next endeavors after ending their partnership. I look forward to seeing Mark and Lindsay at the Indy Challenge (boy is THAT competition going to be fun this year! :biggrinbo) and hope for only great things for them. Lindsay is a great skater and I think this team has wonderful potential too. Good luck guys and you know I'm cheering for you! :cheer:
  24. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    I know this is a wild and crazy thought, but the Olympics aren't the be-all and end-all for every skater. Maybe he just wants to keep skating and competing because he enjoys it.
  25. aemeraldrainc

    aemeraldrainc Active Member

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    This.
    :respec:

    I loved Evora/Ladwig. Im glad he's going to continue competing. I hope the best for the new partnership. Looking forward to what they come up with.
  26. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    :respec:
  27. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention they'd both get better exposure if they skate well at Nationals in an Olympic year. That in turn would translate into better professional opportunities for Mark (if he wants to go that route) and a chance to get the best partner available for Lindsay. With all this talk about US pairs not getting enough competitive experience, you'd think a new partnership would be a good thing. But nooo, they most likely won't be making the Sochi team, so might as well give it up preemtively.
  28. apatinar

    apatinar New Member

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    That seems fine as a 16 year old , but as a 32 year old married father who has already been to 1 Olympic Games I don't know..
  29. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ With all due respect, apatinar, why are you beating a dead horse? Do you know Mark or his wife? Have you ever skated eligibly and with notable success as a 32-year-old married father? How can you be the judge of Mark's passion and life choices? Are there strict, defined rules that everyone must follow in living their life, let alone juggling a skating career with marriage?

    With his wife on board and with good prospects for continuing and great support from his coaching team, friends, peers, and family as well as from his former and current pairs partners, I say Congratulations, Mark! Keep going and best of luck to you, Lindsay, your wife and your family. You are a great competitor, a classy guy, and you possess a wonderful spirit and generosity, which makes your continued participation in this sport very much needed and welcome. Thanks for all your contributions.

    ETA: Thanks as well to Amanda for how beautifully she graced the sport with Mark for so many years. Both Amanda and Mark are great role models for the sport of figure skating!
    Last edited: May 7, 2012
  30. Rochelle

    Rochelle Active Member

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    I totally agree! In my 12+ years of chronic competition volunteering, Mark has been the competitor who writes/delivers thank you notes to all of the competition chairs at Indy Challenge. Every year he competes there. He's just that kind of guy.

    Likewise, prior to when he broke up with Amanda there wasn’t too much talk among fans about how his training/competing at age 32 with the responsibility of a wife/child/house/dog/whatever was a questionable decision. I don’t think there’s much reason to question it now that he has decided to continue on with a new partner.

    Don’t forget, Mark has been competing at the Junior and Senior pairs level for longer than most of the “hyped-up-future-savior-of-singles-skating-starlet/star” competitors have even been skating. He knows what he’s doing. He's well aware of any financial, physical, and personal implications -- better than 99-99.9+% of the users on this board.

    I look forward to watching them develop as a team, and wish the best for Amanda as well!
  31. carriemarie

    carriemarie New Member

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    If you are referring to Gracie Gold in your "blind Item", she has one thing Mark doesn't- A Gold National medal. Can we please stop hating on this girl.

    (BTW Mark never competed at the Junior level.)

    As much as we don't want to admit this to ourselves, these new partnerships now forming have a 2 year shelf life. I expect a mass exodus at the end of the 2014 Nats. I just hope that after the dust settles, there is young talent out there ready to take the helm for US Pair Skating.
  32. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Lindsay Davis/Mark Ladwig have been added to USFS' International Selection Pool, along with Caitlin Yankowskas/Joshua Reagan.
  33. Rochelle

    Rochelle Active Member

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    I'm referring to the several dozen skaters over the past decade or two, from many nations / ages / backgrounds / male & female / pairs & dance included, that some fans have crowned the 'next best thing' after competitively skating (say, starting at Juvenile qualifying regionals) only 5-8, maybe 10, years and then fizzle out for several different factors.

    I'm not singling out Gracie... or anyone... and I agree it's very sad that you had to assume that I was, due to the attitudes of many in this forum.

    I'm just pointing out the man has been in this sport for a much longer time the majority of everyone's favorite athletes still competing. Even if some fans wouldn't have made the same decision that's fine -- but it's safe to assume he's thought very carefully about this decision from all angles. Let him skate. :)
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
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  34. Conga

    Conga New Member

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    ^^^
  35. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Rochelle, for sharing that information about Mark's thoughtfulness. Wiki indicates that Mark was a volunteer at the 2002 Winter Olympics, so he surely has a perspective on all the hard work that volunteers perform at competitions. :) ITA with the comments in your post!

    In addition (in response to carriemarie), according to Wiki, Mark, previous to forming a partnership with Amanda, competed in pairs for the University of Delaware with two other partners. He placed 5th twice at the U.S. Championships Novice level with Keri Blakinger. Apparently, when he began working with Amanda in 2002, they started out together at the senior level.

    I would like to add, Rochelle, that I did not take it that you were singling out anyone in particular with your reference to "hyped" younger skaters as "future saviors." In fact, I think you bring up an important subject. There are so many skaters who don't make it to the senior level (for a variety of reasons -- sometimes they don't have a desire to continue skating, or perhaps their talent level has peaked or there are financial and personal reasons, or in the case of pairs and dance competitors, they may not be able to find another partner if they lose their original partner). And even once skaters reach seniors, there are so many obstacles to their being able to advance to the top level and compete internationally.

    Gracie is one of the talented, "lucky" young skaters who has wonderful potential. She found it within herself to overcome some early challenges and to excel after a difficult first season as a Junior at the regional level. Her hard work led to the spotlight singling her out. Fortunately for Gracie, at this point at least, with a supportive team of adults around her and her own hard work, desire, and ability to manage the pressure, she may be able to continue improving (and that's the key "continue improving"). Many of those who "hype" Gracie now will be the first to "dump" on her when she inevitably goes through a rough patch or fails to meet high expectations. I'm happy for Caroline Zhang that she has found it within herself to overcome the early "hype" showered on her, and to rediscover what made her love skating, and to find the strength, toughness and courage to continue trying. I feel the same about Mao Asada. And I hope Mirai will find herself and either rediscover joy in her skating too, or gain joy in pursuing other goals, if that is what she desires.

    I hope that all the currently over-analyzed young skaters who are the focus of intense scrutiny will be able to overcome that extra pressure and concentrate on developing their skating to the best of their ability (whether that means medals, Olympic participation, Olympic glory, the high of competing consistently well and achieving goals, or just the satisfaction of great effort expended).

    ITA with you Rochelle, that Mark has enough experience to understand all the angles, the hard work, the sacrifices, the pitfalls and the joys of competing. Again, best of luck to Mark and Lindsay!
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  36. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    I'll miss Mark & Amanda, but I'm glad he found a partner and I wish them all the best:)
  37. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    Any summer comps planned?
  38. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    I haven't heard yet... perhaps Indy Challenge (Aug. 3-5) if they're ready? Since Davis/Ladwig were invited to 2012 NHK Trophy (due to the 'split couples' provision), they will be at Champs Camp in August.

    ETA that the article linked at the beginning of this thread stated that "Davis and Ladwig plan to compete at the Indy Pairs Challenge Aug. 3-5..."
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  39. carriemarie

    carriemarie New Member

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    .
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  40. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    @LadwigMark tweeted earlier today:
    "Pair simulation @EllentonIce Friday at 1 pm. Lindsay [Davis] and I debut our short program! Come one--come all."

    Re-posting from the Program Music/Choreographers thread in GSD:
    Cindy Stuart was mentioned in the IN article (linked in post #1 of this thread) as the choreographer with whom Davis/Ladwig planned to collaborate on their programs this season.