Mao's LP at the Olympics

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by worldsnice12, Jun 18, 2014.

  1. eternitygoddess

    eternitygoddess Active Member

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    Are you trying to say that Asada was specially singled out by the judges, more so than other skaters? As if the judges really had it out for her and her alone?

    Mao isn't someone I think of when it comes to "flying across the ice" or having "effortless, elegant" jumps. She's one of those skaters that takes a long time to set up their jumps (sometimes doing one of those phantom-spins before jumping) and de-accelerates going into the jump. Her jumps are of medium, average height. Asada's strengths are spins, spirals, footwork, and step-sequences, not jumps.

    I can already sense an impassioned defense from you (just took a look at your post history), so we can agree to disagree.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  2. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't have said it better myself.
     
    bardtoob and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Amy03

    Amy03 Active Member

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    As odd as it may sound, that's what her scores show when compared to the other skaters scores at the event


    I disagree, on practically everything here and I will explain why. When you have 8 triple jumps, many of them in combination followed by be several spins and a long step sequence you simply don't have the time to have a long setup for each jump, foreksempel just take a look at when Mao does her 3f-2lo-2lo followed by her 3lo they are done in the same end of the rink. Not only does she have more jumps, more demanding combinations then the other competitors she also has a packed straight line step sequence. One of my biggest concern I had the first time I saw the program was whether she is gonna make it in the little time span she has. As for Mao strength being her spins, steps and spiral I disagree. not because her spins, steps and spiral aren't spiral aren't stunning, they certainly are, but over the years she has presented content and crazy layouts like a 3A and two 3-3 in one program, landed three 3A's in one competition, landed 8 triple in another program ect... all uniq achievements that's making it hard not to view her as a jumper, beside when she first came to the scene she was viewed as a jumper, and when I did discover her the first thing I took notice of and greatly admired were her jumps, they were beautiful and effortless and she could just do them out of nowhere and she had a great variety of difficult jumps and combination which always made her programs interesting and her new layout unpredictable. In the end how you view a skater like Mao is up to personal preference, but it's hard to forget or leave out the stunning technical accomplishment she had when thinking about her.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  4. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    While I agree that Mao generally speaking doesn't fly across the ice or has elegant and effortless jumps, I don't think Mao has long preparation times for her jumps at all compared to many of her competitors, particularly considering her transitions going into most of them.
     
  5. begin34

    begin34 Member

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    Thank you for the interview. I've found myself dubious of how involved Tarasova is in Mao's career but she genuinely does seem to care for her. And thank goodness she gave Mao some good material to work with this Olympic season!

    ETA:

    IA, she compensates for her setups well enough. Personally I think Asada should've won the freeskate (close to to a record score) but I don't think she was singled out. She was held back very slightly on GOEs and a lot more so in pcs (that's consistently what happens when skates skate earlier) while Sotnikova grossly gifted in both categories. Of the top four Yuna was the only one with the right score imo, and probably only because she skated after Adelina's 149. Otherwise she might've been tied with Kostner.

    And Meoima, Yuna fanatics happen to be very obnoxious on english speaking sites, esp. during Olympic season. But she's definitely not the only one with raging keyboard warriors so I don't think you should be so hung up every bot you encounter (and on YT...of all places).
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  6. Meoima

    Meoima Well-Known Member

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    I think Mao was underscored so Yulia could be placed higher, since if they let her win the free, she should be placed 5th or even 4th. If people say the Russian girls were over-scored to have best placements, then don't forget Yulia, though. I love Yulia very much. But she fell in both SP and LP, didn't she? I see no reason for her to be placed higher than Mao.

    Nah, I was talking about those "biased fans" who say everything to refuse Mao's LP at Sochi because they don't want to admit her hard-work. I have no intention to hung up all those "bots" because I don't want to call anyone "bot". You guys tell me I don't have the rights to say anyone who disagree is biased when I was talking about those "bad fans". I just explain who those "biased fans" are. Technically those video on youtube should have disabled comments.
     
  7. gordanlevitt

    gordanlevitt Member

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    Your first point is simply ridiculous since Kim did only one international competition pre Games (a small B event) where she skated mediocre with lots of errors. Of course her scores will go up. Her score in Sochi was in fact extremely low compared to what she normally gets for that type of performance (2010 Olympics, 2013 worlds), so the inflation example would not apply to her, if anything she was baffingly deflated to the norm. Kostner skated cleanly in Sochi. When does Kostner ever skate cleanly and land 7 triples. She also was skating very poorly this season until Sochi. Again there is no reasonable basis to compare scores to for her, as it would be crazy to not expect her Sochi scores to be far higher than anywhere else this season when her previous best was managing 4 triples. Mao skated the best she had all season and got her highest score. I agree it was still much too low, but Kim and Kostner are not valid examples of everyone being inflated in scores. Wagner is another example this was clearly not happening for the bulk of the field. Only the Russian girls and inexplicably Gracie Gold were.
     
  8. gordanlevitt

    gordanlevitt Member

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    I didnt say she had small jumps. I said her jumps lack the height and power of Kim and Sotnikova, and so already that makes a cluster of +3s in GOE on her jumps unlikely to impossible. Do you actually dispute this, that both Kim and Sotnikova jump with more height and power than Mao. If you do then you are blinded by your Mao fanaticsm. For the record I think Sotnikova should have been a distant 4th in the long program in Sochi, and probably about 15 points behind Maos 1st place (should have been long program) so based on the scores they got I estimate the long program scoring alone between Sotnikova vs Asada was wrong in Adelinas favor by over 20 points. I also think the Sotnikova gold medal vedict over Kim and even Kostner was proposterous and one of the worst decisions in the history of skating. So I am not a Sotnikova backer by any means, but her jumps do for sure have better height than Mao.
     
  9. Amy03

    Amy03 Active Member

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    You can try to justify Kims, Kostner and anyone elses scores because they landed all their jumps but they were not the only ones. fact is their pcs/goe were still INCREASED in the games while Mao not only had no increase in pcs/goe but hers were greatly decreased on various segments which made her scores even more mismatched with the scores of the other contenders, and which clearly shows inconsistent judging. This is the whole point. you can't justify this behavior by saying Mao skated early, your scores should not depend on when you skate, but how you skate.
     
  10. Amy03

    Amy03 Active Member

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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  11. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Now you are just being delusional - Mao doesn't have "more jumps, more combinations" than any skater - the ladies get 7 jumping passes including one three jump combination and two two jump combinations - and every lady tries to max those out and essentially do exactly the same number of jumps, because if they don't they leave points on the table - even the just over 1 point for a double toe or double loop at the end of a combination. Solo jumping passes are in the air for a fraction of a second, and the combinations take about 1-2 seconds of a programme, and every skater out there takes that same fractions of a second to do a jump - claiming Mao somehow does more than this is just :rofl:
     
  12. Amy03

    Amy03 Active Member

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    :rofl: Go and count darling, there are not only 7 jumping passes but 8. And going into the jumps, and doing the actual combination does not only take 1-2 second :rofl: that's the same as saying all jumps together only take 14 seconds of the program :rofl:
     
  13. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: By all means take your socks off and use your feet, so that you can use your hands to help you with the simple arithmetic - the ladies have 7 jumping passes in their 4 minute LPs and the men have 8 in their 4min 30. Mao (and every other competitor in the ladies event) had 7 jumping passes in their LP.

    And the point remains the same - they all did the same number of jumps - if Mao had done more jumps - they wouldn't have counted. But your blind uberdom will never let you see that. I hope at least it doesn't affect your brain enough to be able to tell the difference between 7 jumping passes and 8 :rofl: :rofl:
     
  14. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

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    I think amy means 8 triple jumps, not 8 jumping passes. I didn't count Mao's jumps but having the 3axle used to be able to give you 8 triple jumps in a 6.0 program vs 7.
     
  15. Amy03

    Amy03 Active Member

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    I'm not going to waste any more time discussing whether Mao had 8 triple jumps or 7, if you want to believe she only had 7, you can just go on in your own world and keep believing that.
     
  16. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    But I didn't say jumps, I said jumping passes, and I meant what I said not what Amy misunderstood ;)
     
  17. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    NM
     
  18. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't at any point discussing whether Mao did 7 or 8 triple jumps, I was discussing the number of jumping passes in a ladies LP - something you appear to not be able to comprehend.
     
  19. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Mao obviously has power to her jumps (you can't do a 3A w/o power) but she's not a powerful jumper. Her jumps get decent height but (ITA w/ smarts1) she doesn't soar.

    Mao's speed is good, above average...but she's not as fast as Yu-Na or Carolina. However, she also doesn't use as many consecutive crossovers as those two either. Mao, like the Russians, has a good mix of crossovers/transitions/linking moves as she moves across the ice. If you compare Mao, Carolina and Yu-Na's SPs and really pay close attention to their feet you can see it. Carolina and Yu-Na generate a crap-ton of speed but the majority of that speed comes from crossovers.

    I've always been baffled by the high scores Yu-Na and Carolina receive for transitions compared to the lower scores Mao receives when she has more transitions throughout her program than either of them.

    In terms of skating skills, Carolina and Yu-Na reign supreme with Mao probably 3rd on that list...but Mao, Julia, Adelina (and even little Elena Radionova and Kaetlyn Osmond) all have more difficult/intricate/varied transitions than Carolina and Yu-Na.
     
  20. eternitygoddess

    eternitygoddess Active Member

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    You just lost all credibility right there.

    To sum up Amy03's points:
    - The judges all had it out for Mao, and Mao ESPECIALLY, and purposefully kept her from her podium (yo, Kim's scores were held down in SP too bc she skated early, among other injustices)
    - Mao is the best jumper ever! She can do every single jump there is and out jumps everyone else. She's technically unparalleled! Did I mention that she has 8 triples? 8 triples! 8 TRIPLES!!! (Rinse and repeat 3x)
    - Mao's performance was more emotional than anyone else's!
    - Mao attacks her elements (more than anyone else)! Mao has more transitions! Mao has better flow!

    Well, at least you're not fanatic enough to argue she should get the OGM.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  21. Amy03

    Amy03 Active Member

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    ^
    Listen I stated my opinion and gave an explanation to them everytime, and I stand behind everything I wrote. I never tried to force my standpoints on you, I merely stated them, but it seems just writting them makes you annoyed, so I will give you an advice if you can't take a different view, then don't start a discussion, I don't back of, or compromise my views for anyone (unless that person has some good arguments), nor do I hold back to please anyone!
     
  22. Meoima

    Meoima Well-Known Member

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    Meh, this is getting ridiculous. People are tearing down Mao despite the fact that she didn't even make it to the podium, and not a threat to any of the medalists once she finished that disastrous SP.

    They say Yuna was robbed so Adelina can get the gold. But they don't think Mao's LP score was held down so Yulia could be placed higher. Why is it so contradicted? Is that too hard for some people to accept that Mao might have been much better than even Adelina that night?

    Had Mao skated in the last group (aka what if her SP were okay), with that exact performance and still not get a medal, would people say she was robbed? I am very curious to know.

    In the past, Mao had many many worse performances than Yuna or Kostner, her nerves got to her and I was pretty much annoyed. I wouldn't place her higher than Yuna in the past. But personally I think in the LP at Sochi, she out-skated them all. That was the skate of her life, since she had nothing to lose at that point. 1st place in the LP sounds fair.

    My point is, her particular performance in that particular day deserved to be placed 1st, not in the 3rd. That would help her raise the total scores. Yeah, being placed 5th or 4th overall in Olympic is still a big disappointment, but if we want fairness to the scoring, then I think we should count Mao' score as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  23. eternitygoddess

    eternitygoddess Active Member

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    ^Who is tearing down Mao? Everyone here agrees that she was very underscored and deserves to be first in the LP after a brilliant program. People have stated repeatedly on her and on GS that 1) Asada was held down and her PCS is laughable in comparison to Julia's, and 2) if Asada skated a clean SP and still placed second to Sotnikova (which she would've), there would be just as much of (if not a bigger) controversy. Not as much attention is placed for Asada vs everyone else bc she took herself out of the running for the podium, but she is proof of questionable judging that night.

    Some of us are disagreeing with a poster who say Mao is MORE FABULOUS at everything (jumps! emotions! flow!) and ignores/doesn't address any valid rebuttals people bring up (ex: no she doesn't have the highest, biggest jumps. That's an objective fact - you can measure the distance, height, and speed of jumps).
     
  24. gordanlevitt

    gordanlevitt Member

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    So not agreeing with and disputing some of Amy01's irrational and over the top claims (eg- Mao has the biggest jumps, Mao does 8 jumping passes when only 7 are allowed for any lady, Mao is pretty much the best ever at everything, Kim was scored higher than she usually is for a clean LP) is "tearing down Mao". It is you who is being ridiculous at this moment.
     
  25. gordanlevitt

    gordanlevitt Member

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    Exactly, and yes Mao skating a clean SP, the same LP, and losing to Sotnikova if it happened would be cause to eliminate figure skating as an Olympic sport entirely.
     
  26. Meoima

    Meoima Well-Known Member

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    Nah, I have no words about Mao having the biggest jumps whatsoever. She usually choked much to my patience to endure. Just saying you guys are arguing too far from the point.

    Since the thread was initially just about her LP performance at Sochi, not anything else. Then when I logged in back, it has come to "Mao doesn't have enough quality in jumps". And I was like... "What the heck..."
     
  27. Meoima

    Meoima Well-Known Member

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    Didn't read Amy01's posts. Sorry. I thought you guys were saying Mao didn't deserve a good score because her jumps were not impressive as Adelina. :p
     
  28. Amy03

    Amy03 Active Member

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    Don't you dare write random things and calls those my claims, that's just the lowest. I never said Mao had the biggest jumps, I said she had great height, and her performance that night was the most powerful and the impact it has had on soo many people around the world is the biggest testament to that. If you want to have a proper discussion you better start quoting my words and not start make up something convenient to you.
    It's unbelievable how many times I have to repeat myself before some people get it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  29. eternitygoddess

    eternitygoddess Active Member

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    ^To quote you...

    Also, arguing in a level-headed and calm manner helps one's case more than throwing temper tantrums and shrieking on forums.
     
  30. Amy03

    Amy03 Active Member

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    Believe me I'm not only arguing in just in a calm manner, but even making it as simple as possible so that even a 5 year old child would understand what was said.