Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by japanice, Nov 21, 2012.
I am happy to hear that she is being smart in using it only when she needs it. She does not need it at NHK, and I hope she continues to improve her jump technique.
I admire that she wants to go with the most difficult jump.
But I think she will gain more points with working on complete the rotations of Flip and Loop.
I don't think she needs 3Axel this season if her other jumps are complete.
her loop was fully rotated at JO and COC so her flip is the only thing that she has to make sure of, I just watched her recent practice clips and her 3A looked good, and i am happy to hear that she only will include it when she feels it's ready!
She is already working on the other jumps. It does not mean she has to completely give up what she was doing well earlier. I always admire skaters who try to push themselves to do more difficult things, instead of taking the easy way out. I just hope she has not lost the 3A while working on the other jumps.
I doubt she's not been working on it in the meantime. Skaters train all sorts of jumps in practice, even if they never get them up to competition standard. I don't doubt that Mao has continued training the 3A even though it hasn't yet made an appearence in her competitive programmes this season.
Probably, since she landed it yesterday in practice at for the NHK Trophy
Skaters are stronger in certain jumps and not so strong in others. For example, the 3A was easy for Petrenko, but he was inconsistent with the 3f and 3R. Kristi Y. was a very consistent jumper but always struggled with the salchow. Mao's strong jump is the 3A, and it is a high point getter, so she should include it in her programs, as long as it does not become a distraction from completing rotations on the other jumps. I believe that when she gets more comfortable/confident with her flip and salchow, she could bring back the 3A.
I just don't understand the point in bold - Mao has shown that she can and does rotate all of her triple jumps, it's not like she's only allowed to rotate a finite number and she's chosing some over others. Why would working on a triple axel be a distraction from completing rotations on other jumps? The mechanics of the axel are completely different to the flip, and with the salchow, most people say the mechanics of the jumps are very similar. Given that the triple axel has three and half rotations, to the flip and salchows three (or slightly less with the salchow), why would you think working on the triple axel would be anything but a help in rotating triples which have less rotation?
I was beginning to think she had abandoned the 3A.
Akira Andrea has translated a new article in which Mao Asada states she hopes to add the 3A back into her programs: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...-amp-updates&p=3786615&viewfull=1#post3786615
I love Mao, I love her perseverance in the face of adversity, her strength, her smile, her soul, her humility.
BUT, as a skating fan I have to be honest and say "too little, too late". I fear it won't be enough to dethrone Yuna, just as her guinness books of world records three 3axels at the last Olympics wasn't either, even though it remains as my favorite performance. To this day I can recall the total RUSH I got when she hit both in the FS. I honest to God wanted to run outside around the block a hundred times, lol. Oh, memories, beautiful cherished memories...
Here's hoping she didn't wait too long, though I know other tragic circumstances interferred with her 4-year preparation for the next Olympics, namely the loss of her beloved mother. *tears*
My wish for Mao is that she can somehow regain her old phenomenal technical capabilities of old, sigh, but my ULTIMATE wish is that she will let herself go, forgot the marks, forgot the judges, forget the audience, skate from the soul, transform the way Michelle did with Salome. Ultimately, skate as if she was skating before God...
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LITTLE SPARROW!!!!!!
His Eye is on The Sparrow
Why should I feel discouraged
Why should the shadows come
Why should my heart feel lonely
And long for heaven and home?
When jesus is my portion
My constant friend
His eye is on the sparrow
I know he watches me
His eye is on the sparrow
I know he watches me
I sing because Im happy
I sing because Im free
His eye is on the sparrow
I know he watches me
His eye, his eye is on the sparrow
I know he watches
I know he watches
I know he watches me
I sing because Im happy
I sing because Im free
His eye is on the sparrow
I know, I know, I know he watches over
He watches over me
If I were her I would not worry about doing it in the short. She could really lose a lot of points if she pops it and she has popped it a number of times in her career. Go for it in the LP, or heck, go for 2 if you feel good enough. I wouldn't want to be trying to come from behind with the likes of Yu Na, Carolina, Ashley, etc.
I am very happy to hear that she plans to use it. I hope it also inspires other women to start including their more difficult jumps. Although the women were my favorite discipline almost my whole life, I have found that the lack of technical content the last few years has made women's skating boring. It's not the skaters' fault - it's the numerous scoring problems with the COP that entices women skaters to leave out 3-3s and the like because they can actually score higher without them!
So cheers to Mao for pushing up the tecnical content among the women. Now if they would just value the 3A more, to properly reflect its difficulty. Ditto triple-triples.
This^ Rock on, Mao!
I fear this will disastrous, although she may need it considering Yu-na's program.
Oh please, when was the last time she landed a fully rotated one in competition with positive goes?
The free skate at 2010 Worlds. She was credited with the full rotation of one at 2010-2011 Japanese Nats, but received negative GOE.
Various fairly reliable sources on twitter have just reported that Mao Asada performed her short program at Nagoya Skating Festival today and that she included the triple axel (albeit 2-footed)
This is a TV news topic in the morning of 7th January in Japan.
Translating to English from Japanese.
7th January 2013.
Next, it is sports topics by announcer Sugiura.
It is as for Mao Asada, isn’t it?
Yes, please look this panel.
Mao Asada won the championship in all 4 competitions, such as 'Cup of China' ,NHK Trophy, GP Final and Japan Nationals, which she participated to in this season.
As for her, it seems that the strength came back, isn't it?
Yes, it seems so. But, in her heart, in fact, Mao Asada has a wish which she can never abandon.
In 2013, In 2013, she starts to challenge for achieving that wish.
Asada: “There is no end, but I think that I must always continue to improve for aiming to be better.”
Asada showed the remarkable activities in this season. Fascinating the audience with bright and comical performance, she won the championship in all events one by one and won the championship in GP Final after 4 years interval, too.
Asada: “Before the season starts, I had worried what degree I would be able to do with and what degree I would be able to recover to previous level till. When I was in such thinking, the season started, but I could get better results which I was worried about. Because it seems that I have been able to make the bridgehead at last, I think that I can connect it to the future.”
What gave her the good results was the training which she had continued to do for recovering her original performance. The improvement of skating skill and the practice of ballet, etc. which had been taken in for improving the expression ability, bore fruits.
Asada: “I feel that I became to be able to use switching the various performances, such as the smooth skating, the powerful skating and the various look． I feel what I had corrected for 2 years became my power finally. I feel that all became a part of my ability although I detoured.
I feel that all became a part of my ability although I made a detour.”
While getting the skating skill and the expression ability high evaluation, Asada felt unsatisfying. It is her feeling to the triple Axel jump which may be able to say as her pronoun.
Asada is going to start the new challenge for recovering her triple Axel which she has frozen so far in this season.
Asada: “Although I didn't miss almost in GP Final, I felt unsatisfying somewhat because there is consciousness to be lacking something. So, my pleasure is about half, too.”
Asada: “For getting true pleasure, I think that I need to recover the skill of the jump which I had ever been able to jump. For that, I think that I would like to confirm the skill of triple Axel jump and to improve the reliability of triple-triple combination jump. As for the season of 2013, it starts from the 4 Continents, but I would like to do my best aiming at perfect comeback.”
I was impressed from her feeling but she seems to be not able to satisfy herself if she can’t jump the triple-Axel even if she repeats a victory, doesn't she?
She will be thinking about it so deeply, won't she?
We also have the feeling that we would like to see that, haven't we?
Asada plans to participate to the 4 Continents next month and to the Worlds in March.
That’s all, it was sports.
"Mao Asada aims at perfect comeback."
Thank you for the translation, good luck Mao!
She'd better start with rotating easier triples first.
If she wants to add it I hope she does it just for the LP. In the past she'd mess up in the SP and would be completely out of the running going into the LP. She should play it smart and add it to the LP only.
So much focus on the 3A...does she ever plan to include a 3-3 in her program?
Very nasty, Ziggy! +
But I definitly think there is a grain of truth in it. Mao has my deep for working on the triple axel again, but I think it will only make sense, if her other jumps have vastly improved since the GP-series. If not, I can hardly imagine how she will fully rotate a triple axel and another downgraded jump certainly won't help her. Unless Mao nails that triple axel 90 % in practice, so she'd know it should work out in competition, I think it's only worth going for it, if you have a solid basis on the other jumps. Otherwise I'd say it's too risky.
In all those wins she really didn't display the jumping talent that would indicate a 3a is realistic.
That's my first instinct as well. Every time she over focuses on the 3axel she misses the easier stuff and that 3axel doesn't even materialize.
she will be more motivated to succeed this time around. she was so at the Olympics and following Worlds as she believed the jump was her biggest weapon against Yuna. apparently she is back in that mindset and Yuna's success is lighting a fire in her. I will not be surprised if she comes close to fully rotate it at Worlds, but with UR's or pops in one of the flips or others.
this time we're also close to the Olympics.
I don't think she will - she has shown that she prefers 3-3s that end with 3lp. Because of IJS I don't think anyone is going to do a triple anything-3lp and get that 3Lp called fully rotated, so what's the point in trying? Both Asada and Ando have done great 3Lps on the back half of a combination and yet had them downgraded.
I think 3something-3T is probably a bigger risk than the 3A at this point for her, so i can see why she's chosing to try the 3A in the SP. 2A with +1 GOE average is worth 3.8. 3A< with -2GOE is worth 4points, even with -3GOE is't worth 3....seems like a no brainer in terms of a gamble if she's close enough on the rotation.
At this point 3F+2Lp is 6.6 compared to most ladies favoured 3T+3T which is 8.2 base value so she needs to make up at least the BV difference. If she lands the 3A then the 4.8 points difference more than makes up for it....though it barely closes the gap on 3Lz+3T.
From the second interview translated by Akira Andrea:
Just for info Mao Asada did a 3A yesterday during her short program in exhib yesterday although it was cheated and double-footed:
Still, if she wants to land it at some point in competition, she has to start somewhere....
I just don't want her to do what she did back in 2010 and make everything about the 3A. If this season has taught her anything it's that her overall skating is amazing and as long as she backs it up with solid jumps, she'll do well. For that reason I feel like she should be focusing on rotating her current layout of jumps. With only 3 and 4 triples she's getting 120+...if she can consistently rotate 6 or 7 triples, maximize her levels on everything else, and deliver her programs the way she has been, she has a great chance of winning or at least putting pressure on Yu-Na to deliver.
Mao should focus on being clean and executing well. Gambling with the 3A is hit or miss, though mostly miss b/c she hasn't done it in a long time. In the past she's shot herself in the foot in the SP by messing it up. The error in the SP basically takes her out of the running for the a medal. If she wants to do the 3A, she should go back to featuring it in the LP, at least that way she won't have to fight her way out of a huge hole in the LP.
There is footage of her on YT landing pretty good 3A (fully rotated or close) both at GPF and JP Nats during training sessions, so it seems she is able to do it in training at least.
As for the Japanese media, they are absolutely obsessed by Mao's 3A and Hanyu and Takahashi's quads, and this obsession knows no bounds at present There is not one bit of news about either of these athletes that doesn't mention Mao's quest for getting the 3A back into her program, or Takahashi's struggle with getting his 4T back - and Hanyu's ease with it. Overall, I think Japanese skaters right now are lucky that the sport as grown so popular in their country, but it also has its drawbacks....
I agree about not trying it in the SP. However, I have to disagree about 2010. That 3A won her an Olympic silver medal and a world title. How can that be considered not good enough?
Skaters do have their favorite jumps. Some skaters are able to do more difficult jumps more easily than simple ones -e.g. Viktor Petrenko's strongest jump was the 3A; Kristi Yamaguchi could do a 3Lz-3t combination, but not be able to do a simple 3sal consistently.
With the COP punishing the skaters for a slight ur, the risk in 3A is greater now than it was in 2006. So it makes sense for Mao to not try that in the SP, but I don't see why she should not go for the high risk high reward situation in the LP.
I honestly think if Mao had put as much effort into other aspects of her skating that season (ie. spins, choreography, other jumps) as she did into the 3A she'd have had a much better chance of beating Yu-Na. Yu-Na had a great balance of the technical and the artistic, while Mao was heavily leaning toward the technical side of things. Her programs were built around the 3A. Right around the time Mao was starting to do better on her lutz, she and TAT abandoned it in favor of the 3A and we didn't see it again for nearly two years. Mao was still doing her 3F-3L. If she had worked on getting some extra height and really finishing the rotation she could have made that work. Just imagine what Vancouver would have been like if Mao had correct edge lutzes, a 3-3 and a 3A.
My point is her balance in 2010 was very one-sided b/c of the 3A. I love that she has two lovely programs this year and I don't want to see her sacrifice that side of her skating to accommodate the 3A...which is what happened last time that jump became her focus.
Those lovely programs are not technically strong enough to win. She needs a higher point getter, and since she cannot do the lutz correctly, she needs to do what she CAN do- the 3A. I am not sure that she would have been able to improve the lutz enough to get full points. She was better off doing what she already did well. If she has a 3A and a 3f-3R or 3f-3t combination, she should be good technically.
On the contrary, underrotated jumps are punished LESS now, since a jump is not downgraded unless it's 1/2 turn underrotated. Back in 2006, jumps got downgraded for being more than 1/4 turn underrotated. So I think it's a worthwhile risk for Mao to take as long as she can pull off *almost* 3-1/2 rotations and stay upright. The biggest issue will be her head getting in the way as she gets ready to take off on her first 3A in competition when she's been doing the 2A all season. Practice is one thing, competition is quite another.
Vash01, I'm in total agreement with both of your aforementioned statements. Also I agree with the poster that stated the 3axel's value should be raised for the women alone, because only one woman currently does it (Mao), thus marking its extreme rarity and therefore its value should go up. Jmho.
By the way, since initially hearing about Mao adding back the 3axel, I've been over at youtube watching old glorious videos, my favorite being this one as concerns Mao's 3axel (textbook perfect per commentator Susie Wynne): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-sHFceaGEY
Mao's spins and foot work are superior to Yuna's... It not like she is going to be about to get a level 5 on them....
This video is the topics on TV in the morning of 8th January in Japan
Translating to English from Japanese
This corner starts from today.
My Sports: Mai Sports
At the Super News, in the super news, it provides a sport corner every week on Monday.
Yes, the name of the new corner is My Sports. Please, Mai Asada!
Mai: “Nice to meet you! I will work hard being spirited from today. In this corner, I would like to introduce to you enough the attractiveness of various sports and the athletes which I have covered actually.”
Mai Asada (24, from Nagoya city, she had ever played an active part in figure skating with her young sister Mao. Having left from competitions for the eligible player now, she sometimes participates to ice show etc.)
She will do the role to draw out their various feelings by telling them her various feelings.
I think that there is something which it can't relay except Mai there.
In the various categories of sports, what topics did you select for your first news corner?
Mai: “The first corner is here. I went to cover the figure skating. As a sports caster, I interviewed my younger sister Mao Asada who won the championship in the Japan Nationals in the end of last year enough.
Mai: “Look, please!”
Mai: “Today, I came to this Makomanai Ice Arena. The Japan Nationals will hold here.
Mai: "What I selected for the first corner is the figure skating which I had continued for 15 years since 7 years old. I had been to Japan Nationals which was held last month.”
Mai: “I paid attention to my younger sister Mao Asada this time. Although she faced the competition, freezing the triple Axel of her pronoun in this season, she won the championship in GP series after 5 years interval, namely, she won the championship in all of three events, such as Cup of China, NHK Trophy, GP Final. She is showing the comeback from last season which ended in the 6th place in the Worlds.”
Short Program in 22nd December
Mai: “But, she started with 2nd place because there were jump miss etc. in the short program. So, I would like to hope come-from-behind victory in the free skating.”
Free Skating in 23th December
Mai: “She achieved the championship for two seasons running in the Japan Nationals. She was designated to the Japan Representative for the Worlds which is held in March, too.”
Mai: “Thank you very much.”
Then, at 24th December
Mai: “To such Mao, I prepared a surprise. In the Christmas Eve after ending the exhibition of the next day of the competition, I opened a small victory celebration of only our sister.”
Mao: “Thank you!”
Mai: “Congratulations on your victory in the Japan Nationals!”
Both: “Merry Christmas! Cheers!”
Mai: “Oh! Delicious! It’s easy to drink!
Mai: “How do you think about this liquor?”
Mao: “I only feel that this is just 'liquor'.”
Mai: “It is 24th December today. It is Christmas Eve! After what years interval will we spend a time on Christmas Eve at only us in this way?”
Mao: “It is since my sixth grade of an elementary school. Because I have participated to Japan Nationals since around the sixth grade of an elementary school, I have not had Christmas Day.”
Mai: “Yes, it is. Always you were not in the home in around Christmas Day.”
Mai: “The season continues, but the last competition of this year was finished. How did you think about your condition in the competition?”
Mao: “The first half of the season 2012 finished. In the time of the beginning of the season, I started, having an anxious feelings about what degree I can recover to my previous condition, as for the level and the performance. But now, finishing the first half of the season, I think that I got better results than I expected for. Therefore, next, I think that I may be able to arrive at my goal finally by aiming at something upper moreover from there. I am thinking that the base for my performance may have been completed at last."
Mai: “’The base was completed.’ As for the intendment of this phrase, it goes back until 2010. Mao who seemed as if she finished her best season, such as winning the silver medal in the Vancouver Olympics and winning the championship in the Worlds, decided on redoing a skating and a jump from the basics.”
Mai: "You challenged to correcting a jump, but I think that to correct a jump was as difficult as the right-handed person changes into the lefty if saying simple, because you had already continued to perform a jump in your own style for about ten years. What is the biggest reason to have determined that you would correct your jump?"
Mao: “At the time, I was suffering about the jump. In my childhood, I could do a jump even if I thought of nothing, because my body was light, too.
Because I had grown taller since then and had sometimes felt strong pressures by various factors, I think that it made the timing etc. of my jump change gradually. Then, in the combination jump etc., it became difficult to perform the jump as I wished to. I began to feel sense of incongruity to my jump.”
Mao: “However, as for Vancouver Olympics, I intended to have accomplished it anyhow by having a lot of practice to practice. Anyhow, I succeeded in the triple Axel, but I felt that that was the limits of my own skill already. Therefore, as soon as ending the Vancouver Olympics, I thought that I would like to correct my jump.”
Mai: “By the determination which was firmed as soon as ending of Vancouver Olympics, she was apprenticed to the coach Nobuo Sato and began to correct her skating from the basics. But, of course, she can't get the result soon. She spent the involuntary season for two consecutive years and had even left a rink temporarily. It was freezing her triple Axel in the competition that Mao had decided, greeting this season.
Mai: “In this season, you started without the triple Axel, but had you decided it in your mind?"
Mao: “I had been practicing so as to add some elements other than Axel since last season and had practiced so as to leave only the good feeling while decreasing the practice of the triple-Axel in this season, but I was in the situation that I can't be conscious of only the Axel specially because it was unstable as for the other elements except Axel in last season, too. Because I thought that I would like to ascertain my base without the triple Axel for the present. This is the reason which I froze the triple Axel in this season. Moreover, it is because there was fear that it mayn't get approval as the triple Axel in the competition because the success probability of it in practice wasn't high enough yet.”
Mai: “You have continued figure skating for a long time. Everybody is apt to associate the triple Axel, when saying 'Mao-chan', but you dared to make your triple Axel freeze in this season. Were there any big motive to do like that in your mind?”
Be continued to
"My Sports: Mai caster interviewed her younger sister Mao Asada as her first job."
Separate names with a comma.