Mao Asada triple triple?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by arakwafan2006, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    693
  2. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,246
    Yep looked like 3F+3LP to me.
  3. Rock2

    Rock2 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,855
    she has such deceptive power. What I liked the most about the combo was the fully rotated loop with a very clean and solid edge on the landing. Not her strongest trait...
  4. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,824
    Very nice. Hopefully she can incorporate the triple triple into her short and her free skate. With the triple triple and the lutz and the triple axel, she would have a shot at beating the wonderbabies.
  5. SLIVER

    SLIVER New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Messages:
    1,457
    She doesnt have the triple axel anymore, she needs to surrender the fantasy. The faster she does, the faster she will be number 1 again. She has more than enough amunition to be world champion and has wasted a few opportunities in the last year by stubbornly attempting a jump that gets her no where.
    This whole jump has marred her career, not enhanced it. She focuses on it so much, kills the start of her programmes, no choreography or transitions before the jump and she looks petrified until its over. After she misses it, she is shaken, distracted and it ruins the rest of the programme. Carolina K won this year with no lutz or axel, Mao could have easily done the same.
  6. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    4,891
    Mao's had history of hitting 3f-3lo successfully in competitions a few years ago. From the looks of it, that combo would be ratified but needs clearer and slower motion to be sure.
    With Russian wondababies coming up, I think Mao feels more need to do both 3A AND 3-3. That's why she's been hitting 3A no matter the result. Theoretically speaking, once she gets solid 3As and then works a little more on 3-3, she has tech content to beat the wonderbabies sufficiently. But it's only hypothetical assumption, which is unlikely to happen given Mao's track of records for the past two seasons. :( She had a good chance of winning at Nice and hold the three world titles in her hand, but look what happened.
  7. Louis

    Louis Tinami 2012

    Joined:
    May 10, 2001
    Messages:
    11,460
    Loop combinations are so heavily scrutinized on both the takeoff and landing that it's a huge risk to include them. Seems like almost everyone has stopped because even clean-looking ones get downgraded, supposedly because of the takeoff. Other than Caroline Zhang and Adelina Sotnikova, is anyone routinely trying them?

    My take is that perhaps loop combinations deserve less scrutiny and/or a bit more leeway when it comes to downgrades.
  8. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,103
    Mao used to do 3f3R combination when she was young, and COP was not deducting points for every slightly underrotated triple. The 3R on the back end of a combination in particular is susceptible to an underrotation. That's why both Mao and Miki stopped doing it.
  9. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,380
    LOL, and with 2 quads, she could have a shot at beating everyone ! :p
    I mean, she never had a good 3Lutz, her 3Axel never was reliable and got downgraded many times, her 3/3 looked perfect but were often downgraded as well.
    She needs to do her best with a lesser technical content, IMO. If she doesn't make mistakes, she can still win.
  10. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,824
    Yeah but she will need the axel if she wants to beat the likes of lipnitskaya and tuktamysheva
  11. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    706
    her triple-triple combos look much better than her 3A...I still think Mao has it in her to dominate and be top of the pile again, even with the w√ľnderkinder from Russia
    I'm of the same opinion as SLIVER. drop the 3A, she doesn't need it. her skills and choreo are better than ever right now, and she gets high levels in her spins. Hope the Satos convince her and they adopt better strategy for next season
  12. NMURA

    NMURA Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Messages:
    374
    The most logical way to increase TES in the SP is introducing the 3F-3T. A 3F-3L is too risky and the 3Lz(e) is needed as a solo jump. Even when her 3A was ratified as long as she lands them, the success rate of 3F-3L was very low (about one in six). My impression is that Asada doesn't like 3F-3T because that is an "easy" jump which even Kim or others could do. The last time Asada did a 3F-3T is at 2008 worlds (+1.6 GOE), probably just wanted to prove that she could do it, even better than Kim could do. Asada's 3F-3T should be the real menace for Kim and Orser but Asada refused to use it as a tactical weapon, and clinged on to always underrotated 3F-3L (which is source of her pride as a prodigy). The 3A is now looked as the same way. As long as she's obsessed with the 3A, maybe 3-3s are put on the back seat. Asada's 2A-3T are often underrotated but got ratified twice in this season. Maybe her 3F-3T could be treated as well. The 3A or the 3F-3L which no other skaters do are scrutinized more closely.
  13. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,103
    Mao is mentally tough. She has already proven that. That's half the battle. With time and practice she can improve her jumps, including the 3A and a 3-3 combination. She needs to drop the 3A from the SP though. The risk is not worth it. She has many wonderful qualities to get high PCS.
  14. aidan

    aidan New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    764
    ITA. It seems like its so much more difficult to get a 3Loop at on the end of a combo, compared to a 3toe, but the scoring system doesn't really reflect that. Hopefully, when the scoring system is revised after 2014 they will increase the value of this skill, or at least set up a rule so it's not judged as harshly.
  15. apatinar

    apatinar New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    633
    I also agree with Sliver - Mao's days of landing a consistent triple axel are long done. She is getting older and her body will break down really fast if she keeps this up. She can drop down to 80 lbs and still not be able to regain this jump. Some of the lutzes in the video looked to be on the correct edge while other lutzes look to be on the inside when she waits just a little longer than she should before picking in.. She needs that triple triple both in the short and the long in order to win. I have a funny feeling though that the Russian pre-school that will arrive at next year's worlds will do very well in the SP but then implode in the long program with all that pressure like Tuktemusheva at the GPF....
  16. brina

    brina Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,224
    It disturbs me to see someone as choreographically and artistically inclined as Mao placing this low at Worlds. She has amazing basics.. excellent line and she CAN jump, she's just putting too much emphasis on the wrong things. She's not playing her cards right. I would be totally frustrated if I didn't understand that she has been trying to improve her jumping technique.
  17. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    693
    After watching the practice vids, she clearly can jump her butt off. People criticize her for doing the axel but clearly it means a lot to her. It could be one of those things that she feels like she's worked so hard for that she does not want to lose it. Also, her technique is so different on that jump. the humongous curve off of that jerky takeoff has been traded in for a rather average looking axel. Tougher do do but within her grasp. I still believe that the 3-3 combo would be smart to focus on until her axel is perfected
  18. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,602
    Mao has won world championships and an Olympic silver medal (right below the highest scoring female skater in history) with her 3A, so I don't know how you can call it "a jump that has marred her career, not enhanced it or a "jump that gets her nowhere." And if you're basing your judgment solely on her ability to land it cleanly *this* season, then, umm. . . excuse me, but . . .THE POOR GIRL'S MOTHER JUST DIED! CAN YOU GIVE HER AN EFFING BREAK???!!! Geez. . . :slinkaway
    kirarinne, hanca, masofs and 2 others like this.
  19. mrinalini

    mrinalini Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    990
    This. If something like that had happened to me, I would have taken this season off and probably a couple more seasons after, too. Mao deserves all the kudos in the world just for getting out there and competing, let alone for competing as well as she has given the circumstances.
  20. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,258
    Agree with your whole post.

    I keep being a fan of Mao not just because of her sating, but because of her hard work and wanting to be THE VERY BEST not just good enough to win. Not to bash anyone , but the mentality these days in ladies skating seems to be "ill just do enough to win" playing it safe has become the standard, and it has made ladies somewhat :blah: and it has made fans complain endlessly about it, asking why ladies are not doing certain jumps, why do they have simplistic choreography, Etc.. Mao has been one to not fall to the trend, if anything she's working even harder now, she went back to basics, improved her speed, improved her spins, and is working on a 3-3 and regaining the 3 axel, she's not playing it safe, she's a fighter, and shows the true spirit of an athlete, she should be applauded. But instead she is being criticized for not playing it safe by the same people that complain when other ladies do it, I really don't get it. Yeah Mao could easily win with easier jumps, but maybe she doesn't want to win that way, and I see nothing wrong with that. Mao, please continue being a hard worker and a fantastic athlete, as well as an awe inspiring woman :D
    kirarinne likes this.
  21. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    693
    Actually, this is the time when she probably feels it the most. Right after trauma is 1 thing but now that a slight amount of time has passed... first worlds without mom. not pretty.
  22. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,473
    I agree
    let go of the 3A and work on the 3-3 more

    but Mao will be back in full force, I am happy she is taking a short break after Worlds she needs it
    we have had other great skaters that have gone through a lot and come back ( Slutskaya *)
    Mao's comeback will be thunderous