Mao Asada best skater ever if she wins in Sochi

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kuzytalent, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Active Member

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    I think if Mao wins the Sochi Olympics she will have to be considered the best female skater ever. Here is why:

    -She would have for sure won the 2006 Olympics if she were allowed to compete. This was not a fault of ability, it was the fault of a silly rule which would have denied Lipinski and Kwan all their 96-98 success had it been in place, would have denied Baiul her whole career. So that would be an unawarded 2006 Olympic Gold, a 2010 Olympic silver with a historic 3 triple axels and great artistry which would have won any other Olympics, and a 2014 Olympic Gold.

    -She would win the Worlds in Japan a month later if she wins the Olympics. This would make her a 3 time World Champion to go with her 2 Olympic Golds (1 unawarded due to silly age rule) and Olympic silver.


    Most of all she is the perfect combination of both technical risk taking, great spins and spirals, and beautiful artistry. Kim is raved about for her technical ability but she does not push the sport forward with triple axels and hard triple-triples like Mao does. Mao also has the most exquisite positions and lines, she is every bit as strong as say Sasha Cohen in those areas, but with much stronger basic skating than Sasha to go with. All her elements are strong, there really is no weakness in her skating aside from her inconsistency.

    Attempting 3 triple axels per competition is so gutsy. Midori and Tonya didnt even do this and their triple axels and jumps were far more explosive and easy than Mao's. Kim has amazing jumps that have far more height, flow, and better technique than Mao's, yet she is too scared to try triple axels and quads. That makes Mao's feat even more impressive. She isnt really the best jumper yet she is pushing herself to do harder and harder jumps more than people who should be able to do than even more easier. She could do an easier program to win like Kim does but she refuses to do that. She wants to push herself, even sacrificing her own chances for gold medals to do so. A true Champions mentality.
     
  2. TripleWallie

    TripleWallie New Member

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    Yay! Let's start another Kim vs. Mao flame war... :scream:
     
  3. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Active Member

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    I did not diss Kim. Kim would be my current pick for best female skater ever. That is another big reason Mao would become the best female skater ever if she won in Sochi. She would overtake Kim as best skater of this era if she wins in Sochi, and since Kim is currently considered by most as the best female skater ever, Mao would naturally take over that spot by overtaking the best female skater ever as best of their era. Similar to how when Nadal overtakes Federer as best player of their era (if it happens) he would naturally be elevated to best of all time too.

    I like both Mao and Kim alot. I in no way dissed Kim in my post. It is possible to like both skaters without a flame war. My only comments about Kim that could be viewed that way is Mao doing harder jumps despite that Kim is really a better jumper show Mao's gutsiness, but I said that comparing her to Ito and Harding too, so would I be dissing them by that logic?
     
  4. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    easy to answer..no. I like her, but no.
     
  5. bek

    bek Guest

    There's no "for sure" Mao would have won 2006 Olympics. Mao didn't even win Junior Worlds that year, and she didn't win the World Champs next year.

    We have no idea how Mao would have handled that pressure. (And Kim might have done well too). We have no idea if Shizuka might have added some more difficulty in order to compete with Mao/Kim.

    Asada's a great skater and certainly one of the best ever but there's no for sure she would have won.

    It sucks though that she didn't get to try in 2006. Maybe if she had gone and won, she'd have quickly retired.
     
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  6. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Active Member

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    Arakawa needed more difficulty than she did to beat Cohen and Slutskaya had they skated well and lucked out to win with that performance that they fell, so I dont think her not doing more difficulty had anything to do with Asada not being there. She simply didnt feel confident enough doing more. Not only did she leave out the 3-3s, but she didnt even try 6 or 7 triples, only 5. Even Cohen tried 7 and landed 5 just like Shizuka.

    Kim was no factor that year. She won World Juniors since Mao skated really bad there.
     
  7. TripleWallie

    TripleWallie New Member

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    You say Yuna doesn't push the sport forward with hard triple-triples? Look at what all the juniors are doing nowadays. Yup. They're all doing 3Lz+3T. You say Yuna is "too scared" to go for a 3Axel? Just like Mao is too scared to do triple-triples with a Lutz? Don't be silly, Yuna does 3Lz combos because that's her strongest jump, just like Mao does triple Axels but no 3Lz+3T because that's not her strength.

    You say Mao has a "true" Champion's heart but Yuna doesn't because she's too scared to go for harder jumps? OK. You can have all the heart in the world but it won't make you a true Champion if you can't land and rotate your jumps. A true Champion brings her A game to the top competitions.

    Gold is not awarded on the basis of effort or attempts. A lady figure skater can promise and announce that she will do quads, and she can practice hundreds of quads, but if she fails to land them in competition that won't make her a champion. Gutsy, sure. Champion, no. Mao is definitely gutsy to go for those 3Axels, but she's not doing herself a whole lot of favor in the eyes of judges and spectators by frequently popping, under-rotating or two-footing them.

    As for Mao winning 2006 Olympics if only she had been age eligible. That's silly. That argument has less merit than saying that Yuna could have won Worlds 2007 and 2008 if only she were not injured (which is much close to reality given her lead in the SP at 2007 Worlds and winning the LP in 2008).
     
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I would consider Mao below Kim even if she won everything in her final season. She simply has been too inconsistent in her career compared to Kim who has been the epitome of both dominance and consistency.
     
  9. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Ladies (Yamaguchi, Ito) were doing 3Lz-3t combinations in the early 1990's. Ando & Slutskaya were doing an even harder combination 3Lz3R (although not very often). Lipinski had a 3R3R- another very difficult combination, so I disagree that Yu na has pushed the sport forward by doing the 3Lz-3t. She may be the best overall skater who can handle pressure and that is why she is an Olympic champion. However, I don't see her as a skater that pushed the sport forward.

    About your second comment above- it's not the same or similar situation. I am not aware of Yu na losing the 2007 & 2008 worlds due to injury (although Yu na fans would like to believe that). She had simply not developed to that level at that time. Even if Yu na was injured both times (I seriously doubt this claim), it is still not a valid comparison. Mao had actually beaten the reigning world champion and everyone else in 2006. She was in perfect health, so it was a fair assumption that she had a very good chance of winning the 2006 OGM had she only been age eligible.
     
  10. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    To go back to the original question, I would hesitate to say Mao would be the best skater ever, if she wins the OGM in Sochi. She is a lovely skater to watch, and she is gutsy. No other lady skater has landed two triple axels in the program. Yet, 'best skater ever' would be a stretch. I wouldn't even give that to Yu na if she fails to win the OGM in Sochi.
     
  11. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    In answer to the question - No.
     
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  12. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Best skater ever? Good grief, how can you put that label on anyone? There's been skaters around for a hundred years and its all about who you like.
     
  13. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Shhhh don't tell anyone but the skating season has actually started
     
  14. MrSatterwhite

    MrSatterwhite Barely-Known Member

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  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The best jumper ever for sure. Even if someone in the future surpasses her jumping, I would still consider her the best jumper ever considering she was probably 50 years ahead of her time. Just like Dick Button should be considered the best mens jumper ever since he was doing things they took another 10 years to do, but Ito was much more than that.
     
  16. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    What you said.
     
  17. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I just watched this with the sound off because I am at work, but event the quality of movement, skating skills and the transitions were amazing. And you could tell she was working with the music becuase of the changes of tempo and expression. Fabulous. I still think she is the best skater ever and we are looking at a performance from over 20 years ago.
     
  18. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Duplicate entry
     
  19. orientalplane

    orientalplane Mad for mangelwurzels

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    Pure magic. :swoon:
     
  20. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    Mao is touching and memorable, but unless something changes drastically this season, I think the peak and gutsiest performances of her career were the three-3A programs in Vancouver. And Yu Na squashed her. So I don't see how she could be considered the greatest. Midori is my favorite skater so I have no problem calling her the greatest. She didn't dominate like Yu Na or Michelle, but everyone knew she was the greatest jumper ever. And she had this quality of heart that made audiences everywhere, and not just in her own nation, love her in a way that you can't say about Yu Na or Mao IMO. I worry about Mao more than I love her, and i admire Yu Na enormously without being moved by her. Midori, Janet Lynn, Michelle... to me you have to go with one of the champions who also captured hearts. JMO.
     
  21. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    And Midori, even in her forties, can still do a fantastic 2axel as good as anything she ever did in competition.
     
  22. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Could you explain the bolded part? Thank you.
     
  23. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Edit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  24. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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  25. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    :kickass::respec::encore:
     
  26. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Active Member

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    Sorry I was thinking she was 16 at the 98 Olympics. I just checked her bio and realized she was 17 then. Had she been 16 she would have not appeared at a Worlds ever before the 98 Olympics, and if that were the case she probably wouldnt have even medalled. Reputation meant alot in the 6.0 days.
     
  27. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Michelle by today's rules would have been old enough to compete at 97 Worlds.
     
  28. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    :)
     
  29. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Well-Known Member

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    IMHO the Hula Hoop lady is the best EVAH!
     
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  30. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Michelle also landed 3/3 combinations and won 7 World and Olympic medals in addition to 7 US National Championships after 1998 ... so I guess pre-1998 is basically her version of chump change.
     
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